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I'm getting more design and brainstorming done on my Norse themed CSM army, but have reached a tough spot. The plan is to base it off of Loki and his army for Ragnarok. I'd have Loki as a Chaos Lord or Sorcerer, and since his army is composed greatly of undead from Helheim, I decided to go Nurgle. Plus I just like Nurgle.

I've got to wondering if Loki is best represented by Nurgle's effects and philosophy. I can justify it, as he is clever, relentless, and resilient. However he's also conniving, treacherous, malicious, and a shape-shifter. Tzeentch wouldn't be a bad fit either really. I've studied Norse mythology and religion for roughly 15 years to one extent or another so am fairly familiar, but there's much I still don't know. I'm wanting to keep this army based heavily off of the Norse legends, and am scouring the Eddas for anything I can get on Loki to get a better idea.

Loki of course, was initially more mischevious, but as time passes, his evil Giant lineage comes to bear and he truly becomes something more evil, and chaotic, rather than a trickster. By the time Ragnarok comes, he gathers his army of frost and fire giants, undead and so on and actively tries to murder the gods and overthrow the throne. It's this version of Loki I'm trying to define in game terms. Treacherous, evil, a betrayer.

What do you guys think? Which chaos god fits best with that? I'm not opposed to running Undivided, but I'd prefer mono-God. I can see justification for just about all but Slanesh really. In addition to the qualities listed above, he's also consumed by intense rage and hatred, so very Khorne like. So it's a tough spot to be in.

I look forward to everyone's insight, as I'm just beginning to learn about Chaos.

Nurgle is not particularly "clever". Jocular, yes, but not "clever". He's not a god known for his witticisms.

Tzeentch all the way.

Loki=Tzeentch
Surtur=Khorne
Thyrm=?

And that's the Norse unholy trinity of evil deities.

Tzeentch all the way. You even have better undead than Nurgle for such an army: "All is dust".

Why limit yourself to a quarter of the codex? Just roll with the norse theme, and use whatever units you need to make it work.
Just treat the marks as stat rules, and divorce yourself from the idea of the four seperate gods altogether.

Kain wrote:Loli=Tzeentch
Surtur=Khorne
Thyrm=?

And that's the Norse unholy trinity of evil deities.

That's what I was thinking. I'm working on a Balrog Bloodthirster for a fire Giant that was originally Surtr, but decided to keep it just a generic fire giant. I found a couple models that would work, one is smaller than I'd like, the other is about 9-10" but awesome. Not sure if its too big.

TheDraconicLord wrote:Tzeentch all the way. You even have better undead than Nurgle for such an army: "All is dust".

The Thousand Sons wouldn't be a bad fit, and since this army is to counter theme my SW, I really like that idea. May even use some SW bits to Norse them up.

McGibs wrote:Why limit yourself to a quarter of the codex? Just roll with the norse theme, and use whatever units you need to make it work.
Just treat the marks as stat rules, and divorce yourself from the idea of the four seperate gods altogether.

This is more the way I'm going. Undivided really seems like it would be the easiest way to really represent everything. I'm also planning a Fenrir as Maulerfiend and bashing a high elf dragon and Trygon into Jormundgandr as either a Forgefiend or another Maulerfiend. Bashing a Heldrake and zombie dragon for Nidhögg. I've thought of incorporating Hel as a Nurgle sorcerer or Lord...Lady.

I'm most familiar in general with Khorne and Nurgle, what are the Thousand Sons play style like?

I think that going mono-god is not necessary. You are creating your own mythology to fit into the 40k world so you can be creative. Besides going with multiple marks and units makes it a lot easier to make a TAC list. I think that you can even fit Slaanesh into the Loki theme you're going with. He is devious in using the pride and desires of mortals to twist them to his cause. He's also the youngest God so he is trying to usurp their power.

This sounds like a really fun army idea. I don't know much about Norse mythology so can't add anything to the discussion though.

Trolling space wolves by using their fluff basis for Thousand Sons (or counts as) is fun though!

bogalubov wrote:I think that going mono-god is not necessary. You are creating your own mythology to fit into the 40k world so you can be creative. Besides going with multiple marks and units makes it a lot easier to make a TAC list. I think that you can even fit Slaanesh into the Loki theme you're going with. He is devious in using the pride and desires of mortals to twist them to his cause. He's also the youngest God so he is trying to usurp their power.

Good point. Going Undivided is so much easier, and a theme shouldn't have to be forced. I've had an idea of Daemonettes as fallen Valkyrie too. As for Loki, I could play him as a Lord/Sorcerer of each and see what I like. I think this will be a very enjoyable, and versatile army that I can greatly alter to fit my mood.

In the mythos, Loki's army is fairly diverse, and he would certainly use anything he can to have his way.

Another Norse believer and enthusiast here, as well as a fellow CSM player, and I must salute you for your ingenuity and dedication!

Pure blatant offense was never Loki's cup of tea, but I'm sure there are plenty of fallen sword-norse who listened to his secretive whispers and follow him. Why bother attacking someone when you could get someone else to do it for you? All the lore reads that he was, at heart, a clever manipulator. Which is why my argument is also for an undivided force. Loki would pick and choose his erstwhile allies from the cream of the crop, not just one specific caste. He would want as m any options to hand to be able to overcome obstacles and throw his opponents off balance, all the better to have someone slip a dagger in where no-one is looking.

If I may, I'd suggest using a Sorcerer to represent Loki. Telepathy discipline is the way to go. I've played both Sorcerer, Chaos Lord, and Daemon Prince, and I absolutely think Sorcerer is the way to go. Daemon Prince would make a great giant, no questions asked. Have you looked at the Warhammer Fantasy Giant model? Haven't played Thousand Sons, though the thing I've heard most is that they're overpriced for what they perform. But thematically they fit, maybe just mess with the models using Space Wolves pieces as other posters have suggested.

Thousand Sons don't care about cover, maneuver or tactics beyond 'keep the sorcerer at the back and prioritise 3+ save enemies". they just walk forwards slowly shooting everything, then charge in for the sorcerer to finish off any stragglers.

Sorcerer fits Loki better than Lord, but the other option is a Warpsmith with Scrolls of Magnus. Warpsmiths share Loki's love of fire (overheating enemy weapons, and come with a flamer and a meltagun) and their Shatter Defences ability is a good way to represent pre-battle treachery. The scrolls give good access to some truly chaotic powers, including telepathy and pyromancy, and the risk to a Tzeentch Warpsmith with a Corrupted Sigil is really minimal (S4 AP1 vs T4 3++).

Tzeentch is the changer of ways. His sorcerers use magic to manipulate the world around them. He's generally seen as a "bad guy" by people who "just don't understand him", and he delights in manipulating the other gods towards his purposes.

How is this not 100% Loki?

Haha, excellent points. I've been reading up on Thousand Sons and have to say, I'm hooked. Will definitely be doing some clipping and filing. Ive got plenty of Space Wolf bits to mix in, and will mostly use the regular CSM models. I like the skeletal look of the 1k Sons helmets, but those crests are awful. I'll run undivided, but have them as my main bulk. Some Khorne to represent Loki's rage will work.

As for the Giants, I've found an awesome model that is roughly the size of the FW Bloodthirster. I wanted to run him as a Bloodthirster, I'm just not sure about something that large in a non-Apoc game. Any opinions?

The WHFB Giant isn't as muscular as I'd like but it would definitely work. How big is it? I think it'd be easy to give it a sword for a proper Surtr too. For now I'm just doing up a Balrog.

So if Surtur fits Khorne, Loki fits Tzeentch, I'm torn between giving either Hela or Thyrm the position of Nurgle.

Hel would, beyond a doubt be Nurgle. It would make for some interesting conversion work to depict her with the duality of death. Maybe a Daemonette as a base, Nurglefy one half all super nasty. I'm just not sure what role she'd play in the army.

Thrym could really be anything IMO. He just has to be huge. Maybe a Titan.

Man, I'm loving this idea. Wish I'd done my SW more Norse.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
Hel would, beyond a doubt be Nurgle. It would make for some interesting conversion work to depict her with the duality of death. Maybe a Daemonette as a base, Nurglefy one half all super nasty. I'm just not sure what role she'd play in the army.

Thrym could really be anything IMO. He just has to be huge. Maybe a Titan.

Man, I'm loving this idea. Wish I'd done my SW more Norse.

And Slaanesh gets left out in the cold.

Sorry gal/guy/thing/hermaphrodite.

Also, I've discovered Enigma Miniatures which have awesome sculpts. Some 54mm minis that would work for giants, as far as looks, but still aren't very tall.


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 Kain wrote:

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
Hel would, beyond a doubt be Nurgle. It would make for some interesting conversion work to depict her with the duality of death. Maybe a Daemonette as a base, Nurglefy one half all super nasty. I'm just not sure what role she'd play in the army.

Thrym could really be anything IMO. He just has to be huge. Maybe a Titan.

Man, I'm loving this idea. Wish I'd done my SW more Norse.

And Slaanesh gets left out in the cold.

Sorry gal/guy/thing/hermaphrodite.

I'd do up a Slaanesh version of Thrym or something, but that'd be a boatload of sexy on the table, and...well...minis are fragile.

I've been reading up on the fluff of Magnus the Red and the Thousand sons. It's almost like it's based off of Loki's mythology. Doing stuff no one else deemed right, but initially not meaning any harm, eventually becoming hated but the other Legions and persecuted, so the snapped back and eventually gave in to evil and ran with it.

While I believe Loki was always evil to some extent, and the Thousand Sons weren't, there are some serious parallels. Speaking in generalities, Loki's, and the Thousand Sons' falling seem almost identical.

As a hearty Space Wolf player I'm loathe to say this, but Leman Russ was kind of a douche, and the Thousand Sons got a bad rap. Damn Horus too.

I still haven't figured out an exact measurement for the WHFB Giant, but I've seen enough pictures to think he can't be much taller than a Balrog, if at all. I think he'll make a great Surtr, with very little conversion work. I'll either run him as a Daemon Prince, or Bloodthirster. He should get Pyromancy, or a super heavy flamer or something though.

So stoked for this project!

Well, and space wolves and thousand sons are sort of two sides of the same coin. It's one of the reasons they hate each other so bitterly.

Loki is a trickster w/ a plan. He's pretty obviously Tzeentch( the god of tricks that have purpose )and also a sorcerer.

You should use space wolf models, and convert them to chaos.


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Oh and if you can't fit Loki properly, you can always make your army "chaos undivided"

I probably will use some defaced Space Wolf bits mixed in. I thought about doing it for the whole army but I still want them to be different.