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2013/08/04 22:45:59
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Even Aetna is withdrawing from Maryland's state exchange:
Aetna Inc pulled out of Maryland’s health insurance exchange being created under President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform law after the state pressed it to lower its proposed rates by up to 29 percent. …
In an August 1 letter sent to the Maryland Department of Insurance, Aetna said the state’s requirement for rate reductions off its proposed prices would lead it to operate at a loss. The rate reductions include products from Aetna and Coventry Health Care, which it bought this spring.
“Unfortunately, we believe the modifications to the rates filed by Aetna and Coventry would not allow us to collect enough premiums to cover the cost of the plans, including the medical network and service expectations of our customers,” Aetna said in the letter to insurance commissioner Therese Goldsmith.
According to online documents, Aetna had requested an average monthly premium of $394 a month for one of its plans and the agency had approved an average rate of $281 per month.
It's all part of the government's master plans to drive the insurance industry out of business!
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2013/08/05 08:14:00
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
The average price for the lowest-cost ObamaCare "bronze" plan in eight states is 122% higher than the cheapest plan currently available in those states, according to an IBD analysis of rate filings and a recent Government Accountability Office report.
We've been over this so many times. Comparing the cheapest plans under ACA and the cheapest plans pre-ACA is not comparing the same things. The ACA has raised the minimum standards for what a healthcare plan can allow, which means you're complaining that it costs you $2,000 to buy a car, but last year it only cost you $900 to buy a rusted out piece of crap that was missing an engine and only had three wheels.
And no, ACA isn't going to be cheaper for everyone. But that is a nonsense standard to require of any new proposal. Instead, the system should be, across the whole, an improvement for most. Which the ACA is.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/08/05 15:28:11
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
The average price for the lowest-cost ObamaCare "bronze" plan in eight states is 122% higher than the cheapest plan currently available in those states, according to an IBD analysis of rate filings and a recent Government Accountability Office report.
We've been over this so many times. Comparing the cheapest plans under ACA and the cheapest plans pre-ACA is not comparing the same things. The ACA has raised the minimum standards for what a healthcare plan can allow, which means you're complaining that it costs you $2,000 to buy a car, but last year it only cost you $900 to buy a rusted out piece of crap that was missing an engine and only had three wheels.
Bad analogy... Seb, it's waaaaay more complex than simple economics. Take of the rose colored glasses and step way.
We all knew that the cost will go up, it wasn't SOLD to us that way.
And no, ACA isn't going to be cheaper for everyone. But that is a nonsense standard to require of any new proposal. Instead, the system should be, across the whole, an improvement for most. Which the ACA is.
My definition of improvement must be different than yours... o.O
Can we new call Obama a liar then? He said Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise:
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2013/08/05 15:48:43
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Easy E wrote: I can't wait until next election when the Republicans run an anti-Obamacare strategy.... again.
Yup... it's going to be brutal as the effects of the ACA is kicking in gear. Much easier for everyone to relate how this is a gak sammich.
Here's an Ad that's going to be devestating:
Obama had to solve the problem created on Capitol Hill by simply ignoring the law he championed. The addition of the Congressional mandate was to ensure that the two-tiered system did not get created by politicians unwilling to absorb the consequences they impose on everyone else. That’s how the ACA became law... which was a sneaky gambit to insert that poison pill by Sen. Grassley. This is nothing more than a political ploy to protect the governing class from the laws it creates that both the Administration and Congressional Democrat pushed this unpopular law onto the American people.
If Congress was so adamant about getting a waiver, why didn’t they pass the laws necessary to create it? It was the Democrats who were too embarrassed to publicly appeal for the rescue, for obvious reasons and the fact that they didn't READ the bill before it was passed, which is why they went to the White House for the solution... rather than pass a waiver or exemption in the US Senate, which they currently control. Instead of changing the statutes by which the REST-OF-US have to live, the Democrats in the WH and Congress have simply decided not to apply it to themselves.
The Democrats are going to own it in 2014. Ads like that are going to be brutal and they're not going to be able to defend against that.
Here's another bit of evidence of just how popular this thing is... The OFA attracts ONE person for Obamacare event... that's pretty damning that it could only attract one volunteer in Centreville, VA, which is full of federal workers, is evidence of the vast disconnect between Obama's policies and the general public.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/08/05 17:40:27
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Sure, I'm sure the base will eat it up and get fired oup to vote. Just like always. There are very few "new" people the Republicans can attract with the same rhetoric.
The real question is, can the Dems fire up their own base like they did in the last election cycle? Since it is a coalition of minorities, young voters, etc they can attract new voters still.
If 2010 is any example, the answer to my question is no.
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2013/08/06 20:46:05
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
whembly wrote: Bad analogy... Seb, it's waaaaay more complex than simple economics. Take of the rose colored glasses and step way.
Yeah, it is complex. Which is why the act of comparing almost useless insurance options pre-ACA to the minimum schemes in the new system is such obvious political hackery.
Can we new call Obama a liar then? He said Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise:
Well I guess you better continue to not vote for Obama, in the next presidential election that he constitutionally cannot run in.
Meanwhile, what actually matters is ACA. Not what some guy said about ACA, but what it actually is. Which means if some guy, even the president, said something about ACA that isn't true, that doesn't actually change what ACA actually is. Which means you don't reject a policy because someone oversold it.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/08/06 03:11:32
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
sebster wrote: Which means you don't reject a policy because someone oversold it.
Why not?
The policy... the ACA itself is still a gak sandwich. It's doubling down on the SAME fething SYSTEM that completely ignores to root cause why all of this started.
It's about holding our elected officials accountable.
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2013/08/06 03:47:56
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Easy E wrote: Sure, I'm sure the base will eat it up and get fired oup to vote. Just like always. There are very few "new" people the Republicans can attract with the same rhetoric.
Yeah, it'll be yet another election where the Republicans are more and more dependant on anti-Democratic rhetoric fired at the same vote blocs. And it might even work this next time, if the Dems run a weak campaign, which is always reasonably likely.
But ultimately, just playing road block in Washington and scaring the same white people about the other side can't be anything more than a holding strategy. At some point the party needs to find a reason of its own to be in government, and needs to make that new message appeal to new voters.
This guy is fast becoming my favourite blogger, and note he runs an economics blog, and this is the first time I've seen him post on politics. He certainly isn't an economist/political pundit like Krugman. And also note that while I have no clue what his real politics are, it's pretty clear he's not a liberal.
He makes the point that it isn't just Republican elections that have delivered poor results for conservatives, but the value system of conservatives don't seem to be delivering results. For all the talk of the sanctity of marriage, divorce rates are highest in the bible belt. The Southern states have the lowest rates of social mobility, and flat income growth. It's a model that isn't delivering, and anyone that looks at the results would be mad to decide that's those concepts are what the country needs more of.
He likens it to the 300 years of long term failure Europe suffered through the Crusades (though the story is far from as one-sided as Noah represents, much like US conservatism's story in the last couple of decades isn't one of constant failure, more one of long term failure in aggregate), ending with the route in the battle of Nicopolos. Following this, for all sorts of complex reasons, Europe starting doing things differently, and in time became not just the new power region of the world, but actually took control of almost the whole world. Well, Nicopolos hasn't happened yet for US style conservatism, but they appear to be in the midst of a protracted decline.
And, for what it's worth, I'd say perhaps the more interesting comparison is to old school trade unionism, which faced its own Nicopolos in the late 70s, early 80s, due to its inability to see the writing on the wall in the decline of blue collar manufacturing in the developed world. Instead of rebuilding its model towards an international style (protecting worker's rights regardless of nationality), or transitioning to union protection of service jobs, or restyling themselves away from militant politics towards being a series supporting professional bodies, they've suffered their own, steady decline and drift towards history's dustbin.
And the comparison is, I think, more valid than the feudal economics of Europe, because, well, the death of European feudal structures was nothing but good - there was no good in there to save and so its complete disappearance was the best result. Whereas trade unionism, like conservatism, has a lot of good in it, and a lot of value to offer if it works in the right way.
He said this brand new Mercedes would only cost me $5, but it turns out it actually cost me $15. He lied, and as a result I'm going to take back this brand new Mercedes and insist I get my $15 back.
$15 for a Mercedes is still a freaking bargain, and you'd be barking mad to return it, even if you are pissed at the salesman.
The policy... the ACA itself is still a gak sandwich. It's doubling down on the SAME fething SYSTEM that completely ignores to root cause why all of this started.
If that were true I think we'd be seeing some actual substance about how its delivering poor results. Instead we're seeing conversation about how its application is kind of murky, procedurally speaking, and how it isn't as good as was promised, and how certain groups that benefitted nicely under the old model aren't happy they don't get a slice of the new pie.
None of which actually says anything bad about the policy, and what it will deliver to people.
It's about holding our elected officials accountable.
You hold elected officials accountable by voting them out of office. Rejecting policy because someone exaggerated how good it was doesn't really make a lot of sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/06 03:53:27
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
57133/02/28 19:44:40
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The ACA is NOT a Mercedes. Its more like a 20 year old station wagon that needs a new engine and tranny when you were promised a Mercedes in perfect condition.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If the Republicans would give even the slightest token effort towards replacing the ACA with something better, then I might actually listen to the noise they keep on making.
Instead we get "our system was really crap and the new one is less crap. But it's still crap so we don't want it. So we will go back to the old crap that was worse, because that is how you fix things!"
If republicans would really care about fixing things, they would fully fund and implement the ACA so that everyone can see how horrible it really is and then replace it with something better.
But they just want to protect the old business model.
2013/08/06 04:39:42
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Except its not better than what we had before. Its some stuff thats better, and then a bunch of stuff thats worse. Plus it was sold to us under false pretenses. It was claimed that it would be cheaper, and not just a little cheaper. A lot cheaper. When its exactly the opposite.
If it was all that it was claimed to be, the Unions wouldn't be trying to jump ship.
And they don't need to fund it and implement it. They just need to voice their opposition to it, so that when the **** hits the fan people will see they were right about it.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Except its not better than what we had before. Its some stuff thats better, and then a bunch of stuff thats worse.
And getting rid of the stuff that's better because you don't like the stuff that's worse doesn't make any sense. If the Republicans were not completely stupid they would reform the stuff that's bad, instead of trying to get rid of everything including the good stuff.
Plus it was sold to us under false pretenses..
Who cares? Do you agree 100% that the Iraq was was a giant failure and a disgrace to our military? It was sold to us under false pretenses.
If you want to throw away a $50 because somebody told you it would be a $100 then be my guest. I will just look at you and continue to shake my head.
2013/08/06 05:00:28
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Except you can't really treat a law by its parts. You have the whole package.
Yes, they could just go after the bad stuff specifically. Yes, I would like them to do that, but its not as big a deal for me. I'd sacrifice the good stuff to get rid of the bad.
Iraq wasn't sold under false pretenses. We thought he had WMDs, we didn't know for sure. Turned out he didn't, big deal. We also thought the Iraq army would put up more of a fight.
Its not a comparable situation.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Iraq wasn't sold under false pretenses. We thought he had WMDs, we didn't know for sure. Turned out he didn't, big deal. We also thought the Iraq army would put up more of a fight.
WMD's was just one of the reasons we went in. Also, both the Republicans AND the Democrats voted to authorize our military action in Iraq. That's right, the Democrats voted for it, too.
3001/08/06 05:40:58
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Grey Templar wrote: Iraq wasn't sold under false pretenses. We thought he had WMDs, we didn't know for sure. Turned out he didn't, big deal. We also thought the Iraq army would put up more of a fight.
WMD's was just one of the reasons we went in. Also, both the Republicans AND the Democrats voted to authorize our military action in Iraq. That's right, the Democrats voted for it, too.
So?
It was sold to the public that they had connection to AQ and had WMDs. Both of which turned out not to be true. It doesn't matter if the people who said so thought it was true, it still turned out not to be.
So either false pretenses (or people saying things that they thought were true that turn out not to be) are a deal breaker on everything, or they are not a deal breaker on anything.
2130/08/06 05:58:04
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Grey Templar wrote: The ACA is NOT a Mercedes. Its more like a 20 year old station wagon that needs a new engine and tranny when you were promised a Mercedes in perfect condition.
First up, that isn't how analogies work.
Second up, so fething what? That just changes the complaint to something more like 'I was promised a Mercedes and all I'm getting an engine and transmission replacement for my current car.... and therefore I'm going to refuse the engine and transmission replacement'.
Which is still fething stupid.
You think the policy was oversold and you don't like that, well then complain about how it was sold. But its still a new engine and transmission replacement, where the alternative is to just keep driving a busted up car that needs an engine replacement and a new transmission.
And lastly the whole 'ACA was sold on a lie' thing is pretty damn weak, because the only people making that complaint are the folk who already opposed it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote: If republicans would really care about fixing things, they would fully fund and implement the ACA so that everyone can see how horrible it really is and then replace it with something better.
But they just want to protect the old business model.
Good post, especially the point on Republicans simply not offering any alternative, but just looking to pull down ACA.
I would disagree though on them wanting to protect the old model. I don't think anyone actually wants that. I think its more that the Republicans attempted a political strategy to hammer Obama's political capital by sinking his flagship policy - healthcare reform (not necessarily a bad strategy given it worked on Clinton).
But the gamble didn't pay off. ACA got up. And in the wake of it, well the Republicans can let their party become the party that fought to oppose all those people having healthcare where they had none, and oppose all those people denied coverage for pre-existing conditions where now they have coverage. Or they can make one final attempt to tank ACA through political shenanigans, and escape what could be a generational hit to their party's legitimacy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey Templar wrote: If it was all that it was claimed to be, the Unions wouldn't be trying to jump ship.
The unions aren't jumping ship. They're being cut out of the loop. The difference in those two things is massive.
And they don't need to fund it and implement it. They just need to voice their opposition to it, so that when the **** hits the fan people will see they were right about it.
It's a long standing strategy that when the other side is putting bad policy in place, you make lots of noise about it and you vote against it, but you don't actually stop it. You don't play any procedural games to fight any part of it. You just make sure the other side owns the policy, and then you let them reap the consequences.
The Republicans aren't doing that with ACA. They're fighting each and every piece of its implementation tooth and nail. And if you're think they're doing that out of genuine concern that ACA might harm the average taxpayer then I've got a bridge to sell you.
They're not doing it because their opposition was a calculated political gamble that failed, and now that ACA is going to come in and people are going to be covered where they wouldn't have been, and reasonable healthcare is going to become cheaper,
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey Templar wrote: Except you can't really treat a law by its parts. You have the whole package.
Umm, you can. A reform bill can be passed, saying 'take out this bit, and add in these bits, but leave the rest of it as it was'. Who taught you civics?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Also, both the Republicans AND the Democrats voted to authorize our military action in Iraq. That's right, the Democrats voted for it, too.
Which is a very good reason to condemn the complete spinelessness of Democrats in the post 9/11 world, but in no way is it a defence of the lies told about why an invasion of Iraq was necessary.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/08/06 06:11:13
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/08/06 06:37:55
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
d-usa wrote:If the Republicans would give even the slightest token effort towards replacing the ACA with something better, then I might actually listen to the noise they keep on making.
Instead we get "our system was really crap and the new one is less crap. But it's still crap so we don't want it. So we will go back to the old crap that was worse, because that is how you fix things!"
Yeah, but that's conservatism in a nutshell.
2013/08/06 15:07:39
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
d-usa wrote:If the Republicans would give even the slightest token effort towards replacing the ACA with something better, then I might actually listen to the noise they keep on making.
Instead we get "our system was really crap and the new one is less crap. But it's still crap so we don't want it. So we will go back to the old crap that was worse, because that is how you fix things!"
Yeah, but that's conservatism in a nutshell.
I disagree with the whole premise that the ACA makes is less crappy guys. I'd say, overall... the unintended consequences makes things worst.
Case in point: Employers are dropping fulltime positions now to avoid the 50 fulltime threshold that forces employers to offer healthcare benefit. Most of my friends were impacted by this.
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2013/08/06 17:36:38
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Easy E wrote: Newsflash: employers were dropping full-time people before ACA and would have continued to drop them without ACA.
Citation please.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
djones520 wrote: And what has the ACA done to make anything better?
Seriously? You can now get coverage when you've got a pre-existing condition. How are you not aware of this, after all this time?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/07 02:33:47
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/08/07 02:36:19
Subject: American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Easy E wrote: Newsflash: employers were dropping full-time people before ACA and would have continued to drop them without ACA.
Citation please.
Seb... there are numerous stories that employers FLAT OUT stated that they're dropping full timers due to the ACA regulations... to circumvent the 50 fulltime threshold to offer insurance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
djones520 wrote: And what has the ACA done to make anything better?
Seriously? You can now get coverage when you've got a pre-existing condition. How are you not aware of this, after all this time?
So... that's it? All is forgiven... that right there is worth whatever worts in the ACA?
Again... I think you're letting your bias through with what you experience at home. This isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote: So you are arguing against the ACA because it has not lowered under-employment? Or reversed the pre-ACA trend of under-employment?
*sigh*
It's the unintended consequences that fugly dude... what's galling is that it was predicted. This is an exercise of "I told ya so"...
What's next, the ACA didn't stop Bengazi?
No... it's the ACA didn't prevent austerity.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/07 03:51:24
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2013/08/07 04:10:20
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
dogma wrote: Because, at the end of the day, you cannot please everyone and so you must make your decisions at least palatable to those who are not immediately in favor of them.
The same is comically true in business presentations. Spin it, baby.
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2013/08/07 20:02:52
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
Cities and towns across the country are pushing municipal unions to accept cheaper health benefits in anticipation of a component of the Affordable Care Act that will tax expensive plans starting in 2018.
The so-called Cadillac tax was inserted into the Affordable Care Act at the advice of economists who argued that expensive health insurance with the employee bearing little cost made people insensitive to the cost of care. In public employment, though, where benefits are arrived at through bargaining with powerful unions, switching to cheaper plans will not be easy.
Cities including New York and Boston, and school districts from Westchester County, N.Y., to Orange County, Calif., are warning unions that if they cannot figure out how to rein in health care costs now, the price when the tax goes into effect will be steep, threatening raises and even jobs.
“Every municipality with a generous health care plan is doing the math on this,” said J. D. Piro, a health care lawyer at a human resources consultancy, Aon Hewitt.
But some prominent liberals express frustration at seeing the tax used against unions in negotiations.
“I think it was misguided all along,” Robert B. Reich, the former labor secretary, said in an e-mail. When the law was being written, he said, he worried that the tax was “a blunt instrument that could too easily become a bargaining chit for cutting back benefits of workers.”
“Apparently, that’s what it’s become,” Mr. Reich, who is a professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley, said.
Under the tax, plans that cost above a certain threshold in 2018 — $10,200 annually for individual plans and $27,500 for family plans, with slightly higher cutoffs for retirees and those in high-risk professions like law enforcement — will be taxed at 40 percent of their costs in excess of the limit. (The thresholds will rise with inflation after 2018.)
State and local governments across the country tend to offer more expensive health plans than private businesses do, and workers often accept smaller wage increases to retain their benefits. Because of this, state and local government employees are expected to be disproportionately represented among those whose plans will be subject to the tax.
New York City expects its two most popular employee health plans to reach taxable Cadillac levels by 2018 or shortly after. This year, the city projects that it will pay a total of $7,128 for individuals and $18,249 for families in its most popular plan, including the costs the city pays into union welfare funds to cover prescription drug benefits. That is above the national average for employer-sponsored health care coverage, which last year was $5,615 for single coverage and $15,745 for family coverage, according to a 2012 Kaiser Family Foundation survey.
The total health care cost for the city’s nearly 300,000 municipal employees, pre-Medicare-age retirees and their dependents is expected to approach $8 billion by 2018.
In a letter in April to the head of a labor coalition, Caswell F. Holloway IV, deputy mayor for operations, said the Cadillac tax would cost New York City $22 million in 2018, increasing to $549 million in 2022. (This year, the total city budget, excluding federal and state aid, is just over $50 billion.)
“We know that, on the current trajectory, we’re going to be hit with that tax and it would increase very steeply,” Mr. Holloway said.
So the administration of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, in its final months in office, is asking municipal unions to agree to seek new bids for the city’s health insurance business, hoping to lower premiums. It has already achieved one small victory, getting the city’s current primary insurer to freeze premiums for one year if it keeps the city’s business, the mayor said on Friday.
But lower-cost plans are likely to involve greater out-of-pocket costs and more limited networks of doctors, and so far, the response from labor has been cool.
Ninety-five percent of city employees and 93 percent of retirees are in the two largest plans, which require employees to pay nothing toward their premiums. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation survey, the average contribution by public employees throughout the country is 12 percent for individual plans and 23 percent for family plans.
Harry Nespoli, the chairman of the Municipal Labor Committee, the labor coalition that negotiates with the city on health care, said that he was concerned about the tax, but also that the burden of any cuts would fall largely on workers at the bottom of the pay scale.
Mr. Nespoli said his staff was looking over the request for proposals that the city had written, but he said he was skeptical that the process of seeking new health insurance could be completed before the next administration.
“We’re not going to turn around and do a $7 billion contract that affects our members for the next 10 years out without looking at it very carefully,” he said.
Most of Boston’s 20,000 employees are currently in plans that by 2018 would exceed the tax threshold. The city and its unions are preparing a request for proposals for new insurance coverage.
“The tax is going to be a hit, and, if you’re not expecting it, it’s going to be very shocking,” said Meredith Weenick, the chief financial officer for Boston.
Jim Finley, the executive director of the Connecticut Conference of Municipalities, said he thought it would be hard for Connecticut towns and cities to get their unions to agree to cheaper health care benefits to avoid the tax.
“In the end, it’s the taxpayer that’s going to bear that burden,” Mr. Finley said.
In Orange County, Calif., the Newport Mesa Unified School District warned employees during contract negotiations that if the district’s health care costs continued rising at the current rate, the district could face a $2.3 million burden from the tax in 2018.
The teachers’ union ultimately agreed to accept greater out-of-pocket costs to reduce the increase in its premium this year to 3 percent from 6 percent, but union leaders said they resented the district’s using the threat of the tax as a negotiating tactic.
Municipal unions opposed the inclusion of the tax in the health care law, and it was partly their efforts that succeeded in delaying its effective date until 2018.
Steven Kreisberg, the director of collective bargaining and health care policy at the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, said the term Cadillac tax was misleading, because it “connotes a certain aspect of luxury in these health plans that is just factually incorrect.”
The announcement last month that the Obama administration would delay by a year the mandate that larger employers offer coverage to their workers does not affect the timing of the excise tax, although it may provide encouragement to those who hope that the assessment will be delayed or scrapped altogether.
“Some skeptics, and I’m not one of them, say that that’s why the tax was put into effect in 2018 — that it’s far enough away that people can consider whether or not they really want it to go into effect,” Mr. Piro, the health care lawyer, said.
Jonathan Gruber, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was a paid consultant to the Obama administration on health care policy, said forcing state and local governments to rein in health care costs was exactly what the tax was intended to do.
“This is intended to shift compensation away from excessively generous health insurance toward wages,” he said.
In New York, if the Bloomberg administration does not succeed in getting new health insurance before the end of the year, the problem will fall in the lap of the next mayor.
Mr. Holloway said the Bloomberg administration, like many city governments, had long been concerned about the rising cost of health care and its impact on the budget.
But the 2018 tax “adds a sense of real urgency to getting a handle on this,” he said.
“We’ve got to start thinking about this now,” he continued. “Why is it that my plan is so expensive per person? What are the ways that we could get that under control?”
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/08/07 20:14:25
Subject: Re:American labor unions don't like Obamacare
I am a fierce champion of single payer. I am on the board of California OneCare, one of the most active single payer organizations in California. But right now, we are several heartbeats away from the opening of the health insurance exchanges. So let's take a real world look at what we might expect.
Take a deep breath and continue reading.
The task facing the administration is Herculean, quite literally changing the psyche of the American people. American have long accepted that in this country healthcare is a privilege reserved to the affluent and those still with employer provided insurance. We're now being told, throw away those beliefs the future is here, and the future belongs to those who buy for-profit private insurance.
We've segued from each man/woman for herself, to we're all in this together.
The biggest and most critical hurdle is to sell the young 18-34 year old cohort on the need for them to enroll. Without this group of Americans, which the Administration estimates is around 2.7 million strong, the exchanges will implode due to a phenomenon called adverse selection.
Enroll America
Despite my grave reservations and deep concern about the implementation of Obamacare, I would urge anyone who can lend a hand, to go to the web site of Enroll America and do whatever you can, to help get young people happily enrolled. Without their participation, We. Are. Toast.
As Robert Pear wrote yesterday in the New York Times,"For Obamacare to Work, Everyone Must Be In". And the sine qua non of the ACA are the young invincibles who must be persuaded to enroll.
So struggling Americans, still reeling from the 2008 crisis, are being asked/required to accept the for-profit insurance industry, and pay staggering premiums and deductibles, just to get a foot in the door to the most expensive, but far from the best healthcare system in the world. We are being told that the barbaric belief system which continues to be embraced by tens of millions, that healthcare is only for those who can pay, is all wrong, and a new day has arrived.
Up until now, healthcare in the United States has been a privilege. Some would argue, and I would agree, that even with the new day we are all awaiting, healthcare will remain a privilege and as many of us have long feared, many/most of us who will comply with the law, will have insurance in name only.
What do we mean by insurance in name only?
The situation in New York State is instructive, and helps explain what it means to be insured, but in reality to be dangerously underinsured.
A few weeks ago, headlines trumpeted that New York would see premiums drop by up to 50%. This was misleading. New York had among the highest premiums in the nation because we are a pure community rating, guaranteed issue state--one of six or seven community rating states in the country.
This meant that insurers had to sell insurance to anyone who could pay for it. Pre-existing conditions did not taint New York State. Young and old, all paid the same. So, guess what happened? Young people dropped out, and the pool shrunk to just people who really needed to be insured--the sick, those with chronic conditions. New York could brag about offering health insurance to everyone--with one caveat, if you could pay among the highest rates in the country! I would be dead or would have filed for medical bankruptcy, if I weren't a resident of NY State.
Obamacare is supposed to ameliorate this problem of adverse selection by mandating that everyone buy, so the older and sicker will in effect be subsidized by the young and healthy.
But returning to the reality on the ground, what kind of check will I and other New Yorkers be writing every month, and what will we get for it?
If you focus on the Silver Plan, you'll find that the deductible is $2000 with a maximum out of pocket cap of $5000.
But in order to access these magnanimous benefits, if you select, say Oxford, and live in the New York City vicinity, as I do, you'll pay a monthly premium of $555.48 X 12 = $6,665.76, then you've got the $2000 deductible which brings your immediate costs to $8665.76.
Then you've got, co-pays and co-insurance on top of this. You've got to incur an additional $3000 after the deductible to hit your out-of-pocket cap.
What we're really seeing play out is an overhaul of the insurance model codified by the Affordable Care Act. It will be all but impossible (except for the mega rich), to buy insurance offering what is called first dollar coverage. This means we will all be required to pay steep premiums and deductibles but may not have the financial resources to actually access healthcare.
“Obamacare is making underinsurance the new normal,” said Woolhandler. “It will reduce the number of uninsured from 50 million to 30 million, but the new coverage is full of holes. Americans deserve the kind of first-dollar, comprehensive coverage that Canadians already have. But that’s only affordable under a single-payer system that cuts out the private insurance middlemen.”
Yes, thanks to the ACA, there are a couple of preventative screenings included in these huge costs, but overall, what we have going on here is a huge shifting of costs onto the backs of the insured.
As we all know, there is zero price transparency in the US healthcare system, so God help you if you plan on calling around to get the best price for a bypass before signing up.
And when you pay for that bypass, you'd do yourself a favor by considering getting it in a country with far better outcomes, at a fraction of the cost than in the United States.
http://s53.photobucket.com/user/nyceve/media/blog_health_rankings_usa_oecd.jpg.html I am reminded on days like today, that President Obama campaigned on the idea that people like me would see something like a $2500 reduction in health insurance costs.