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Oh yes, I forgot the glorious tradition of gluing some cardboard boxes together and calling it a titan so you can bring the most overpowered weapons. It's like someone realized that the only remotely fun thing about Apocalypse is seeing all the awesome models and decided they just had to kill that fun.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Yes some people just glue carboard together and call it a titam, some people actually take the time to carve pink foam into the correct shape, paint a decorate it so that it looks as good if not better than some actual production titan.
CrashCanuck wrote: Yes some people just glue carboard together and call it a titam, some people actually take the time to carve pink foam into the correct shape, paint a decorate it so that it looks as good if not better than some actual production titan.
Yes, 0.000001% of the time a scratchbuilt model will be legitimate. However, time is money and saying you can spend six months building your own Warhound doesn't really change the fact that Apocalypse without house rules is just a test of who is most dedicated to winning Apocalypse. There's no strategy involved, all you have to do is obtain more of the overpowered stuff than your opponents.
And let's be honest here, the vast majority of "scratchbuilt" models are cheap proxies at best.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
CrashCanuck wrote: Yes some people just glue carboard together and call it a titam, some people actually take the time to carve pink foam into the correct shape, paint a decorate it so that it looks as good if not better than some actual production titan.
Yes, 0.000001% of the time a scratchbuilt model will be legitimate. However, time is money and saying you can spend six months building your own Warhound doesn't really change the fact that Apocalypse without house rules is just a test of who is most dedicated to winning Apocalypse. There's no strategy involved, all you have to do is obtain more of the overpowered stuff than your opponents.
And let's be honest here, the vast majority of "scratchbuilt" models are cheap proxies at best.
Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
CrashCanuck wrote: Yes some people just glue carboard together and call it a titam, some people actually take the time to carve pink foam into the correct shape, paint a decorate it so that it looks as good if not better than some actual production titan.
Yes, 0.000001% of the time a scratchbuilt model will be legitimate. However, time is money and saying you can spend six months building your own Warhound doesn't really change the fact that Apocalypse without house rules is just a test of who is most dedicated to winning Apocalypse. There's no strategy involved, all you have to do is obtain more of the overpowered stuff than your opponents.
And let's be honest here, the vast majority of "scratchbuilt" models are cheap proxies at best.
Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Dat bad/good luck.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/18 18:11:19
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
King Pariah wrote: Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Rolling exceptionally well one time doesn't change the general rule. And that's not strategy, it's just lucky dice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/18 18:13:41
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
The Baneblade is very low key by apocalypse standards for want of any SD weapons, void shields, T8+ or spamming very high strength.
I actually wouldn't have anything against using it in regular 40k.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
King Pariah wrote: Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Rolling exceptionally well one time doesn't change the general rule. And that's not strategy, it's just lucky dice.
Yeah cuz, flanking, using cover and the mobility of destroyers to get those shots off with minimal fear of being shot at over the course of 3 turns against 3 baneblades is not strategic. Hell, with your logic, there is strategy because everything could be considered mere "luck of the dice"
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
King Pariah wrote: Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Rolling exceptionally well one time doesn't change the general rule. And that's not strategy, it's just lucky dice.
Yeah cuz, flanking, using cover and the mobility of destroyers to get those shots off with minimal fear of being shot at over the course of 3 turns against 3 baneblades is not strategic. Hell, with your logic, there is strategy because everything could be considered mere "luck of the dice"
I'm sorry, but on average 3 Heavy Destroyers should barely chip the paintwork of a baneblade, side shot or not.
It was nothing but good rolling.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
So, since when does that matter?
You should take 9 Heavy Destroyers if you want to compare them to a Baneblade
Peregrine wrote: I guess it's easier to post ridiculous comments about how you're not allowed to have fun than to address my criticism of GW's game design?
I guess people are just tired of all those "Winning Apoc is about spending the most money"-posts people have been making.
Because we all know that people who spent thousands to buy Titans because they absolutely want to win in Apocalypse are usually not invited to Apocalypse-games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/18 21:19:29
King Pariah wrote: Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Rolling exceptionally well one time doesn't change the general rule. And that's not strategy, it's just lucky dice.
Yeah cuz, flanking, using cover and the mobility of destroyers to get those shots off with minimal fear of being shot at over the course of 3 turns against 3 baneblades is not strategic. Hell, with your logic, there is strategy because everything could be considered mere "luck of the dice"
I'm sorry, but on average 3 Heavy Destroyers should barely chip the paintwork of a baneblade, side shot or not.
It was nothing but good rolling.
The shots sure were good rolling, but positioning the destroyers in a manner which prevented my opponent from being able to have LOS to them?
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
This. Apocalypse is not a game, it's an exercise in seeing who has the most money to spend. It's deliberately unbalanced to get people with a short attention span to spend lots of money on overpowered stuff, and then throw it in the trash and buy different overpowered stuff when their opponent's overpowered stuff kills it.
Instead of playing Apocalypse you should just gather your friends and see who can light the biggest pile of money on fire, and then declare them the winner of the Apocalypse game.
Some people actually enjoy Apocalypse games...
Peregrine, as per usual, has taken a very extreme view on things. While he's right in the fact that Apocalypse isn't balanced and isn't meant to be, and hence nothing is really "OP". However, the point of the game isn't "burning money" or anything stupid like that. It's about having fun. An alien word to some, including Peregrine, perhaps, but that's what Apocalypse is about. I'm quite convinced it makes GW a large sum of money, but it certainly gives me, and many others, a lot of fun while doing so without actually having spent much money at all. My gaming group have had many a fun Apoc. game just by sticking lots of stuff on the table and adding in a few cool rules, with the only Apoc. model being the odd Stompa or Baneblade.
Oh yes, I forgot the glorious tradition of gluing some cardboard boxes together and calling it a titan so you can bring the most overpowered weapons. It's like someone realized that the only remotely fun thing about Apocalypse is seeing all the awesome models and decided they just had to kill that fun.
Scratchbuild. Sorry if you have a problem with this.
I'll show ye..... - Phillip J. Fry
Those are brave men knocking on our door! Let's go kill them! - Tyrion Lannister
Apocalypse is what got me back into 40k, I have no problem getting blown off the table by a giant collection of models, I'm not sure about the whole burning money thing, if you really think 40k is a "tactical" game and that someone can't spam expensive units in a regular game, well then that's just your like opinion man.
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Yeah, that's an awesome model. But let's be honest here, for every awesome scratchbuild like that one there are dozens of D-weapon spam proxies that look like this:
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
when I saw that red Titan I thought that it's not really as bad as I thought it would be, but I suppose considering how much effort it would take to make that is puny compared to painting an Army of equal points, even the Old Necrons. I wouldn't want that blowing apart my dudes... well, maybe 1 game.
Yeah, that's an awesome model. But let's be honest here, for every awesome scratchbuild like that one there are dozens of D-weapon spam proxies that look like this:
Honestly I've got scratchbuilds that look way worse than that, but the people I play Apoc games with aren't picky. We just like to blow stuff up.
I'll show ye..... - Phillip J. Fry
Those are brave men knocking on our door! Let's go kill them! - Tyrion Lannister
I don't know if you realize this, Peregrine, but a lot of Apoc games are not played competitively. usually, they are played at the end of long rounds of campaign games, and are given extra rules so they turn out to be a very narrative conclusion to a half-years worth of gaming. that, or their a game that a bunch of mates play over a weekend whilst having some drinks and watching some movies.
there are reasons why there aren't any Apoc tournies (oh, god, don't let this have started anything).
people don't play to win. if its a one off game among friends, then no one will mind the red warhound, and in a campaign, people will usually put the effort required into the nice warlord.
Just because you see all games as WAAC, dosn't mean others cant try to play for the sake of playing
but the people I play Apoc games with aren't picky. We just like to blow stuff up.
Game set and match.
If you dont occasionally like grabbing a massive handful of dice, lashing down some huge pie plates and having Titans duelling each other then sure, thats your perogative but you're probably missing out.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
This. Apocalypse is not a game, it's an exercise in seeing who has the most money to spend. It's deliberately unbalanced to get people with a short attention span to spend lots of money on overpowered stuff, and then throw it in the trash and buy different overpowered stuff when their opponent's overpowered stuff kills it.
Instead of playing Apocalypse you should just gather your friends and see who can light the biggest pile of money on fire, and then declare them the winner of the Apocalypse game.
i like you. you get it. apoc is giant waste of time and money.
Peregrine wrote: I don't really see how, especially now that GW has done even more to replace what little strategy there was in the old version with more "buy this $100000000000 one-click bundle and remove your opponent's whole army from the table" balance disasters and random event tables full of different ways of removing lots of models without the players ever interacting or making decisions. The only way to make Apocalypse enjoyable is to house rule it so heavily that it barely resembles the game GW created.
And I say this as someone who has spent thousands of dollars on superheavies and more tanks/flyers than I can use in a single non-Apocalypse game.
Because people won't buy those bundles?
Apocalypse isn't about seeing who can win a game, it's about playing it with your friends.
I take roughly 6k of my models, my friend takes 6k of his models and we play all day long.
That is Apocalypse.
And if you can't accept that and want to keep trolling every single Apocalypse thread, than maybe you should start thinking about ignoring those threads?
he has just as much right to voice his opinion as you do. no need to get all sandy about it.
Some people enjoy being rich idiots with more money than sense to buy on models/monuments to our egos. This is probably why my wife controls the family budget
Maybe some of us are educated and therefore have decent jobs in which we can afford our toys without taking away from our families. Don't knock people who play the game because you can't afford it or manage your own finances.
IMO large scale Apocalypse games are really fun (even if a bit time consuming) and there's no other game out there like it in scale and scope.
Back on topic: Apoc is deceptive in that its touted as a "bring everything and play" type system, however lists are still important so that you have the proper OP counters to your opponent's OP stuff. 3,500 points seems a bit low in order to have all your bases covered. I think Apoc works best starting at 5,000+ points a side.
i have a college degree, a full time job, a girlfriend who works at a fortune 500 and 40,000 points of models and i hate apoc. what now?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: Yeah cause the anti-Apoc reasons cited above are solid and not subjective.
/rolleyes
how are they not? I never claim that GW is robbing people or that the game is overpriced. I don't think it's fun to move 300 models in a game (reason i sold my tyranids), nor do i see any value or fun in the tedium that would results from trying to build any of the "formations." all you have to do is look at the purifier formation and the necron warrior formation to see what an uncreative cash grab the new formations are. 100 necron warriors is now a formation? where is the fun or imagination in that? i'm just going to place $300 in bills on the table if i want to use that formation.
King Pariah wrote: Sure. That's totally why a trio of heavy destroyers took out 3 Baneblades over the course of 3 turns, because heavy destroyers are OP and I didn't have to use strategy at all... >.<
Rolling exceptionally well one time doesn't change the general rule. And that's not strategy, it's just lucky dice.
Yeah cuz, flanking, using cover and the mobility of destroyers to get those shots off with minimal fear of being shot at over the course of 3 turns against 3 baneblades is not strategic. Hell, with your logic, there is strategy because everything could be considered mere "luck of the dice"
wow, you must be some kind of tactical genius to blow up a tank with no defenses using the best anti armor codex in the game. can you teach me the ways of the warrior?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/19 16:40:29
This. Apocalypse is not a game, it's an exercise in seeing who has the most money to spend. It's deliberately unbalanced to get people with a short attention span to spend lots of money on overpowered stuff, and then throw it in the trash and buy different overpowered stuff when their opponent's overpowered stuff kills it.
Instead of playing Apocalypse you should just gather your friends and see who can light the biggest pile of money on fire, and then declare them the winner of the Apocalypse game.
i like you. you get it. apoc is giant waste of time and money.
"Hi, I'm Mr.Likes to state his opinions as fact, how may I shove my subjective viewpoint down your throat today?"
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
This. Apocalypse is not a game, it's an exercise in seeing who has the most money to spend. It's deliberately unbalanced to get people with a short attention span to spend lots of money on overpowered stuff, and then throw it in the trash and buy different overpowered stuff when their opponent's overpowered stuff kills it.
Instead of playing Apocalypse you should just gather your friends and see who can light the biggest pile of money on fire, and then declare them the winner of the Apocalypse game.
i like you. you get it. apoc is giant waste of time and money.
"Hi, I'm Mr.Likes to state his opinions as fact, how may I shove my subjective viewpoint down your throat today?"
that's a very well thought out response. i'm just going to place $3000 on the table and pretend like i wasted my time building 200 of the same model just to use some OP rule.
150 fearless blob of warriors that sounds super fun to play with and model. or how about the fact that $700 eldar phantom is the best model in the game now? definitely sounds fun to me! yeah, peregrine is waaaay off base. anyone that doesn't agree with you must be too poor to play.
how are they not? I never claim that GW is robbing people or that the game is overpriced. I don't think it's fun to move 300 models in a game (reason i sold my tyranids), nor do i see any value or fun in the tedium that would results from trying to build any of the "formations." all you have to do is look at the purifier formation and the necron warrior formation to see what an uncreative cash grab the new formations are. 100 necron warriors is now a formation? where is the fun or imagination in that? i'm just going to place $300 in bills on the table if i want to use that formation.
My comment was aimed at Peregrines assessment of Apoc which is so subjective its pointless to argue with.
As to the formations they dont have to be used, pick and choose the ones you like, ignore the rest.
I'll reiterate the points made above, if you're selecting armies to outright win Apoc or have some tactical nuances, you're doing it wrong.
Its a supplement to the core 40k rules, no more no less than PS, COD, SH etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/19 16:49:29
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
This. Apocalypse is not a game, it's an exercise in seeing who has the most money to spend. It's deliberately unbalanced to get people with a short attention span to spend lots of money on overpowered stuff, and then throw it in the trash and buy different overpowered stuff when their opponent's overpowered stuff kills it.
Instead of playing Apocalypse you should just gather your friends and see who can light the biggest pile of money on fire, and then declare them the winner of the Apocalypse game.
i like you. you get it. apoc is giant waste of time and money.
"Hi, I'm Mr.Likes to state his opinions as fact, how may I shove my subjective viewpoint down your throat today?"
that's a very well thought out response. i'm just going to place $3000 on the table and pretend like i wasted my time building 200 of the same model just to use some OP rule.
150 fearless blob of warriors that sounds super fun to play with and model. or how about the fact that $700 eldar phantom is the best model in the game now? definitely sounds fun to me! yeah, peregrine is waaaay off base. anyone that doesn't agree with you must be too poor to play.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
game design?
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice 
