Swarmlord vs Skarbrand

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**Skullhammer**

Proper support for skarbrand and he'd win, add some fiends and swarmys down 5 initiative Karnak in the area and he's periling on any double, though I have to agree that in a one on one swarmy has the edge.

**PrinceRaven**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
Evileyes wrote:
Swarmlord's inflict instant death?

Also i'd like to note, that scarbrand costs 225 points. So pitting him against the swarmlord with the usual upgrades is kinda unfair.

Yes, Bonesabres inflict instant death and force successful invuln saves to be re-rolled.

The Swarmlord has no usual upgrades, you can't upgrade it at all. Swarmlord is 280 points but you have to take into account that unlike Skarbrand he's not just a CC monster, but a potent psyker and force multiplier.

If only Skarbrand somehow buffed your CC-centric units somehow... say, by letting them reroll hits...

Skarbrand - CC monster, grants nearby units Hatred, even enemy units.
Swarmlord - CC monster, mastery level 2 psyker with 4 powers to choose from, all friendly units within 18" are Fearless, All enemy units within 12" add a d6 to their psychic tests, +1 to reserve rolls, re-roll to determine board edge of outflanking unit, can grant Preferred Enemy or Furious Charge to a unit within 18" for a turn at the beginning of your shooting phase.

You said Skarbrand was purely a CC monster, I proved you wrong. Degrees of synergy is irrelevant to the argument being argued.

Okay, I concede, he's not just a CC monster, he also has this 1 area of effect buff that also helps your opponent, my point remains that the extra points you pay for the Swarmlord are there to offset all the other stuff you get from the Swarmlord that you don't get from Skarbrand (and unlike Skarbrand's, they never help out your opponent)

Skullhammer wrote:
Proper support for skarbrand and he'd win, add some fiends and swarmys down 5 initiative Karnak in the area and he's periling on any double, though I have to agree that in a one on one swarmy has the edge.

Well the initiative reduction probably won't matter, Skarbrand is initiative 10 after all. Adding Karanak into the mix will increase the chance of perils from 5.56% to 16.67%, so it still won't happen all that often, plus Skarbrand still won't take out the Swarmlord after Perils on average. Plus if we're adding extra units into the mix, I will se your Karanak and fiends with 20 Gargoyles with Toxin Sacs.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Or put in tyrant guard with lash whip/bone swords and laugh as Skarbad becomes I 1...

**PrinceRaven**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Or put in tyrant guard with lash whip/bone swords and laugh as Skarbad becomes I 1...

Problem is if Skarbrand gets the charge he can dodge them by challenging for the check for what's in b2b for Lash Whips is made.

**Dalymiddleboro**

Abbadon vs swarnlord, go!

**McNinja**

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Abbadon vs swarnlord, go!

Without Iron Arm, it's a toss up. Without charges, or other units, they strike at the same time, both ignore the other's armor. Swarmlord inflicts instant death. Abaddon's attacks are all S8 AP3 with Shred and he has a 4++ while the Swarmlord has no saves against Abaddon's attacks.

Pretty even, a bit in favor of the SL.

With Iron Arm, SL comes out on top unless Abaddon gets lucky.

**PrinceRaven**

McNinja wrote:
Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Abbadon vs swarnlord, go!
Without Iron Arm, it's a toss up. Without charges, or other units, they strike at the same time, both ignore the other's armor. Swarmlord inflicts instant death. Abaddon's attacks are all S8 AP3 with Shred and he has a 4++ while the Swarmlord has no saves against Abaddon's attacks.

Pretty even, a bit in favor of the SL.

With Iron Arm, SL comes out on top unless Abaddon gets lucky.

Abaddon has to re-roll that 4++ and the Swarmlord has a 4++ in combat thanks to Blade Parry, Abaddon has Eternal Warrior, so neither is instakilling the other. The Swarmlord has a 100% chance of getting at least 1 of the following: Iron Arm, Warp Speed, Enfeeble and will probably have 2 of them, it can also give itself either Furious charge or Preferred Enemy. No contest, Swarmlord easily beats Abaddon.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

McNinja wrote:
Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Abbadon vs swarnlord, go!
Without Iron Arm, it's a toss up ]Abbadon kills a lot of things, theres a whole thread on it. But with math hammer Swarmlord wins a lot more. Without charges, or other units, they strike at the same time, both ignore the other's armor. Swarmlord inflicts instant death Abbadon is eternal warrior and is immune to ID. Abaddon's attacks are all S8 AP3 with Shred and he has a 4++ while the Swarmlord has no saves against Abaddon's attacks. Swarmlord gets a 4++ invul in combat while Abbadon has to re-roll successful invul saves of his own...

Pretty even, a bit in favor of the SL. A lot in favour of swarmlord

With Iron Arm, SL comes out on top unless Abaddon gets lucky.

**ImotekhTheStormlord**

troolzyn the infinite wrote:
3

Someone fancies himself a trool.

**McNinja**

PrinceRaven wrote:
McNinja wrote:
Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Abbadon vs swarnlord, go!
Without Iron Arm, it's a toss up. Without charges, or other units, they strike at the same time, both ignore the other's armor. Swarmlord inflicts instant death. Abaddon's attacks are all S8 AP3 with Shred and he has a 4++ while the Swarmlord has no saves against Abaddon's attacks.

Pretty even, a bit in favor of the SL.

With Iron Arm, SL comes out on top unless Abaddon gets lucky.

Abaddon has to re-roll that 4++ and the Swarmlord has a 4++ in combat thanks to Blade Parry, Abaddon has Eternal Warrior, so neither is instakilling the other. The Swarmlord has a 100% chance of getting at least 1 of the following: Iron Arm, Warp Speed, Enfeeble and will probably have 2 of them, it can also give itself either Furious charge or Preferred Enemy. No contest, Swarmlord easily beats Abaddon.

Totally forgot about the Swarmlord's parry and the force-re-rolls. Also totally forgot about Abaddon's EW. So basically, Swarmlord unless Abaddon gets lucky.

**XT-1984**

Who would win between 12 Lascannon Havocs and the Swarmlord if they started 48" apart?

**Deathmaster Snikch**

McNinja wrote:
Evileyes wrote:
Anyway why the hell would SW need to be taken down to two HQ units?

Oh I'm sorry is 2 Wolf Lords or Rune Priest not enough . Also because a single Wolf Lord is hell to deal with, oh look I have a Thunderwold, Frost Blade saga of I'm awesome and you suck and thats me!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

XT-1984 wrote:
Who would win between 12 Lascannon Havocs and the Swarmlord if they started 48" apart?

The Doom of Malan'Tai in Spore behind them and 1 other unit in a spore

**Schwarmfuhrer**

You where about to shoot the Swarmlord with those havocs but then my infiltrated genestealers popped out of their cover and ate them. Thats what would happen.

**minigun762**

PrinceRaven wrote:
minigun762 wrote:
My gripe is more about psychic powers in general. Buffs are typically too strong since you don't need to beat a deny the witch roll. Witch fire are almost all terrible..
Most maledictions are fairly balanced.

As far as EW, I'd be more ok with it if Instant Death superseded it. Have it serve to protect models from being doubled out.

So you'd be ok with it if were completely useless on anything higher than Toughness 5?

Useless? No. But I don't agree with complete immunity. In my mind, instant death should trump EW.
I could see a compromise where ID attacks do D3 wounds instead of ID if you have EW. Actually I'd be fine with that.

**Schwarmfuhrer**

You'd be happy to be a Necron cause they have tons of weapons that ignore EW and simply remove the model from play

**jakl277**

1v1 with no psychic powers skarbrand wins

1v1 with iron arm swarmlord wins.

real game both of them get shot to pieces and die before they make it cc.

people are proposing ways in which using other units would make one or the other win. thats kinda dumb. you could give skarbrand the 4+ invuln from divination with a herald and then grimoire him. 2+ invuln save then. You have to only consider 1v1.

**Schwarmfuhrer**

In a real game the Swarmlord has 3 guard and makes it to CC

**PrinceRaven**

jakl277 wrote:
1v1 with no psychic powers skarbrand wins

1v1 with iron arm swarmlord wins.

real game both of them get shot to pieces and die before they make it cc.

people are proposing ways in which using other units would make one or the other win. thats kinda dumb. you could give skarbrand the 4+ invuln from divination with a herald and then grimoire him. 2+ invuln save then. You have to only consider 1v1. [/quote

If the Swarmlord doesn't get Iron Arm and if Skarbrand gets the charge and if he wasn't Enfeebled or otherwise charging through difficult terrain he'll win, yes, but the Swarmlord wins in any other scenario.

I welcome people trying to shoot my durable Swarmlordstar instead of my dangerous Trygons or useful Tervigons.

Skarbrand would still lose with a 2++, all it takes is 1 wound.