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kb305 wrote:


-nerfed furious charge
-hull points turned their tanks and dreadnoughts into paper
-nerfed blendernaught since power weapons now suck.
-overwatch
-random assault distance
-on top of that the new codexs are designed to crap all over power armour

anything i missed?

The Furious Charge nerf does hit the army hard. Challenges do as well, since people can call out the Sanguinary Priest in hand to hand if you ever get there. Hull points wasn't really a nerf, since everybody got hit by it, and frankly after 3 glancing hits, a Razorback should have been near-useless anyway. The power weapon nerf sucks, walking cuisinarts excelled at killing hordes and not elite infantry so that's not the worst thing in the world. Overwatch does dick generally (30 guardsmen on overwatch will kill just about one Marine on average) so while it is potentially a problem, it won't make much of a difference. Random assault distance is hit and miss, since on average you'll be charging further than you would have before. There's still those 2-3 inch charges that happen, but you'll generally be rolling 7s for distance. There's also Hammer of Wrath and rerollable charge distance if jump pack troops only move 6" in the movement phase. I will agree that new codices have been pretty brutal to power armor though; the amount of cover-ignoring/reducing AP3 templates is kind of terrifying, especially for Ravenwing or similar armies.

In other words, you have a fair point or two, but a lot of these are minor blows at most, or hit everyone just as hard.

 Jancoran wrote:
AlmightyWalrus, I do not DISbeleive that people are struggling with them. What I ALSO believe at the same time is that their struggle is somewhat self inflicted.

1. One of the most terrifying leaders in the game.

2. Feel no Pain IS a pain. One model can make three or four squads have Fnp on the eve of their triumphant charge

3. Some of the most attractive allied options in the game.

4. POSSIBLY the best flyers in the game (I actually am pretty sure I like the Eldar flyers better for TOTALLY different reasons, BUT one cannot discount the firepower of the mighty StormRaven).

5. Cheap Land Raider transports.

6. AV 13 DreadBlenders or AV 13 FragCannon nightmares

And you cant win with this? I think you can.

1. Which one is that, Mephiston? He's dangerous for troops, but manageable if you have AP2 or 2+ saves.
2. Agreed here, FNP got nerfed in most situations, but it's still a strength for the BA in spite of that.
3. True. Still though, some of us want to win on a Codex's own merits.
4. In terms of firepower, yeah the Stormraven's probably the best flyer in the game. However, it's also the most expensive by a fair margin. They're also not unique to BA/GK anymore, although Bloodstrike Missiles are definitely the best missile available.
5. Umm what? Land Raiders cost the same as they did in any other 5th ed Codex.
6. Agreed here, Furioso/Death Company Dreads are one of the best units in the Codex currently. Unfortunately, they can't score.

BA still has good things about it, obviously. Before their update, Necrons could resurrect themselves more reliably than they can now, their Monoliths couldn't be melta'd, they could ignore invulnerable saves and yet they still were the worst army in the game in 5th ed. Before their update, Eldar had Runes of Warding which screwed over any enemy psykers, they were able to always get doom/fortune/guide/etc, and yet their army was still the worst in 6th ed. BA have some nice tools, but overall they're struggling to keep up when other armies have better tools and synergy to get the job done.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Jancoran, you should probably stop talking down to the BA players when it's obvious you're not as familiar with the book as you could be.

Especially when you're talking from the position of a 6E Tau player.

Stormravens best flyer? Eldar flyers? Lol.

I play 8 armies. I trade off a lot. I said that. I would definitely consider myself a "Tau expert" but I play a lot of armies and HAVE played every army as its codex came out, for at least 20 games. I have more experience wioth more armies than most people because I could afford the time and money to do so. What do you play?

As for Eldar flyers, you haven't faced my air force yet but I am quite certain you would change your mind after a couple games. Thus far we are 11-0. And most of those games were early capitulations. I have never seen anything like it, really. Only two of the 11 games went the distance. The rerst were early GG's.

But none of that is the point here. The OP is asking why BA's hate their life. I don't see evidence that suggests anything other than an unwillingness to change that is crerating the frustration. Blood Angels as a force are doing well. People have adapted. here is an example list of what I am seeing that is doing well, though there are three other versions that are quite different from this floating consistently around the local shops. This is just the one that seems to have a lot of success regardless of opponent:

Vindicator (HK Missile, Storm Shield)
Storm Raven (TL LasCannon, TL Multimelta)
Storm Raven (TL LasCannon, TL Multimelta)

5 man Assault Squad
5 man Assault Squad
5 Grey Hunters (Melta, Power Axe)
Droip Pod
5 Grey Hunters (Melta, Power Axe)
Drop Pod
Furioso (MagnaGrapple, Heavy Flamer, Blood Talons, Extra Armor)
Furioso (MagnaGrapple, Heavy Flamer, Blood Talons, Extra Armor)
Furioso (MagnaGrapple, Frag Cannon
Drop Pod
Mephiston, Lord of Death
RunePriest (Telekinesis, Meltabomb)
Attack Bike (multimelta)
Attack Bike (Multimelta)

Points: 2000
Kill Points: 17
Models: 33

It plays big because its MSU, and it saturates the enemy with targets, can get anywhere on the board in record time, can pop any number of rhinos or monsters, and the troops are just there with camera equpment, chipping in where needed. Aircraft is taken care of and then some, the problem with position is handled, TEQ, MEQ, all that. And the thing about the list that is kind of deceptive is that you think "wow, not a lot of models, no problem" but then it comes at you in 17 pieces! Entire units are forced to shoot at MOSTLY units they have but one weapon that can cause any damage and failure means death. Mephiston is a force unto himself and he can tie whatever imposing unit up that you want him to.

Its frustrating to know that if you you dont kill Mephiston, you're toast, but then if you do, the Furiosos eat you. And if you try to kill the furiosos after they are out in the open, Mephiston may have something to say about that too. they work in tandem well. AV 13 basically means you got ONE chance to get it right with STRE 7 weapons. I dunno. Its fairly surprising how that few models does so well but .the proof of the pudding is in the eating

I see similar things happening in my Eldar Air Force. I have 46 models total in an ELDAR army. Three of which are AV 10 planes. Easy to see why my opponents aren't scared. They will be but not when we start. the army kinda creeps up on you.

So when I see armies like this and others as well, doing well... Its just hard to listen to all the moaning. LOT of assault in this list. Just saying.

That list has 4 AV13 vehicles; guess what every S8+ weapon in the enemy army is going to shoot at the first two turns? Killing 5 Marines out of a Drop Pod isn't going to take much effort either. I just don't see the threat in having 3 Dreadnoughts with short-ranged shooting walk across the board to come at me. I mean, the list will probably work okayish, but it's far from stellar, especially for a 2000 point list.

On a side note, why on Earth Telekinesis?

 Jancoran wrote:
AlmightyWalrus, I do not DISbeleive that people are struggling with them. What I ALSO believe at the same time is that their struggle is somewhat self inflicted.
1. One of the most terrifying leaders in the game.
2. Feel no Pain IS a pain. One model can make three or four squads have Fnp on the eve of their triumphant charge
3. Some of the most attractive allied options in the game.
4. POSSIBLY the best flyers in the game (I actually am pretty sure I like the Eldar flyers better for TOTALLY different reasons, BUT one cannot discount the firepower of the mighty StormRaven).
5. Cheap Land Raider transports.
6. AV 13 DreadBlenders or AV 13 FragCannon nightmares
And you cant win with this? I think you can.

Yup, you are right about one thing: It's self-inflicted because we chose to play with Blood Angels.

1. You do know that one of the complaints is about the suckyness of our HQ-choices?
Our best option is a Librarian that is more expensive than other codices and has fewer options.
That is a general BA-theme btw, "pay more for less!".
2. One model gives one unit FNP, because you are never going to keep them so close together.
3. "BA are good because you can get allies", am I hearing this right?
4. Don't you mean "worst flyer in the game"? Because that is how I would like to call a Stormraven Gunship.
It's 200 points for Firepower that many other codices get for only half the price. Again: "Pay more for less!"
That is even if we ignore the part where almost everyone can have a Gunship nowadays.
5. It's the same price as a normal Landraider from any other army.
6. "Dreadblenders" aren't good enough and Fragnaughts need support.

So yeah.. We have two good things: Dreadnoughts and Sanguinary Priests.
But in exchange most of our other models are slightly worse than those from another codex.
You can give me any 'BA-tactic' and people can give you a codex that does it better.

AV13 wall. Do that better with another Marine Codex.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
AV13 wall. Do that better with another Marine Codex.

Not a marine codex, but Necrons do that much better than BA's, and can add one-sided Night Fighting shenanigans into the mix as well