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So to finish off my Pre-Heresy Force, I was looking at the £160 option for Mk4 Armour... This one...



So, I look at this and go hmmm, I need Umbra Ferrox Bolters because that's what my existing units have.

Sent a request to Forgeworld to ask can the Tigris Bolters be changed to Umbra Ferrox...

Answer here..

Hi there,

Unfortunately we cannot alter the bundle as this is how it is supplied to us.

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards,
Forge World

Well so much for Customer Service...I'm tempted never to finish my Army and spend £160 on my Cold War stuff. It's not like they have small margins on this stuff. This was a pretty simple request, I wasn't asking for money off, just a bit of flexibility.

Unbelievable.

Why? They sell a product and your asking for a different product. I can see what you are saying, and i can see why you asked, I would too, but I would not blaim them for saying no? I wouldn't.

Steve what he asked is a different option, it wouldn't hurt FW to make a small change FW happy, customer happy.

It seems flexibility is not a done thing at FW

I understand the desire to ask but it isnt that unreasonable that FW said no to the option. they offer the bundles at a discount but the drawback from this is that your are getting a pre-set bundle, you essentially make a saving from losing the options you would have if you bought it separately.

 Melcavuk wrote:
I understand the desire to ask but it isnt that unreasonable that FW said no to the option. they offer the bundles at a discount but the drawback from this is that your are getting a pre-set bundle, you essentially make a saving from losing the options you would have if you bought it separately.

But for a Company that seeks to unlock creativity this seems odd...

This isn't a boxed set, there is no Artwork. It's not like I've asked for a Space Marine Boxed Set to be changed?



It would be unreasonable if I said change the Rhino for a Predator....

But All the stuff I've bought from FW has always arrived in an anonymous boxed with everything in little Re-sealable bags. I don't see how they cannot change things around, it's not like I'm asking for the contents of a Pre-Printed boxed set is it? This was the last delivery...



Furthermore, I was an early investor in this stuff and now I feel penalised, because FW is basically saying this Armour goes with this Bolter, which they never did before?

I always thought FW was more Customer focused, but clearly not. Who decided that X-Set has Y-Options...It has never been the case with this range, you could mix and match Weapon Patterns with Armour to your own creative ends.

Now because I don't have the option, I have to spend another £30 on Weapons, and try to sell the other 3 sets at a loss? It's Lose - Lose from a customer perspective. I am paying premium prices here, so I expect more/ better customer service. When I buy something expensive I expect bespoke service - It's that simple.

I am paying £5.30 a model here! I get 25% off at various model smaller model companies based on the amount I order, but FW is a closed Model because it doesn't sell to Third parties. I can forgive this closed market, if the Models are excellent (which they are) and the Customer Service is top (the P&P is a shocker an the Customer service is not flexible at all!).

Or you could buy the components separately. Yeah, I know, crazy idea...

Which once again is more expensive...This is quite simply bad customer service.

A business should adapt to the customers requirements, the Customer shouldn't have to adapt to the business requirements. Especially when the customer is paying full market price.

Although the bundle doesn't come in a box and has no artwork it is as has been said sold as seen which is why you get the discount.

FW still have to cast up the product which costs them time and money, and they have probably cast up lots of these sets in advance.

If they had to go away and cast up another 30 bolters specifically for your order they would lose money.

I know probably not a lot but I don't think saying no in this case is unreasonable, especially as you can buy all of these components seperately.

Number#1 - You think they don't cast all the parts in large numbers...They have bins of this stuff over in nottingham.

They don't cast anything specially for anyone, they have production lines precisely so that they don't have to do this. It's simply a case of substituting one bag for another...The issue is accounting and a lack of flexibility in their Business Process Management procedures.

Number #2 - Forgeworld doesn't give you a discount for not using boxes, it never has done!

This thread is ridiculous. The decision to place Tigrus bolters with the Mk4 armor bundle was one that FW had to make, most likely due to fluff that has been recently established by both FW and Black Library, I know the head doesn't know what the 2 hands are doing, but it seems at least those two communicate every now and then.

Tigrus pattern bolters were common during the end of the great crusade/before the start of the Heresy (as was the 'newly minted' Mk4 armor). The Umbra Ferrox pattern bolter was established during the Heresy to ensure Astartes had enough ammunition. I figured someone that has been in the hobby as long as you have would have at least gone to Lexicanum and looked up the different bolter patterns. I could see the Ferrox pattern being included with the Mk5, but not 4.

have you phoned them then? just to see why there is inflexibility when your a valuable customer - it might be a valid point or they may take your suggestion on board?

Ive always found them great and had absolutely no problems with them when ive had a few issues with stuff i've bought.

Yeah, I've phoned them. They are sending me a letter outlining why they cannot do it.

I've also had no problem on the Phone - when I had to return a Contemptor and they sent me a replacement.

I was very pleased, hence why I thought this was a no brainer.

 Alfndrate wrote:
This thread is ridiculous. The decision to place Tigrus bolters with the Mk4 armor bundle was one that FW had to make, most likely due to fluff that has been recently established by both Fou canW and Black Library, I know the head doesn't know what the 2 hands are doing, but it seems at least those two communicate every now and then.

Tigrus pattern bolters were common during the end of the great crusade/before the start of the Heresy (as was the 'newly minted' Mk4 armor). The Umbra Ferrox pattern bolter was established during the Heresy to ensure Astartes had enough ammunition. I figured someone that has been in the hobby as long as you have would have at least gone to Lexicanum and looked up the different bolter patterns. I could see the Ferrox pattern being included with the Mk5, but not 4.

I'm not sure how you make grand sweeping statements like that, especially when you read the HH series and there are many Exceptions.

The reason I went for Umbra Ferrox was that the Weapon best represented the AD MECH relationship with the Iron Hands because each Boltgun came with a Targeter which seems reasonable for a Legion that Venerates Technology and has a close relationship with AD MECH. Does that satisfy you?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Steve what he asked is a different option, it wouldn't hurt FW to make a small change FW happy, customer happy.

It seems flexibility is not a done thing at FW

Yes, I know. He asked to change the bundle, a bundle they have made and costed, and they said no. Yes, the cost may have been minimal, or it may not have been. The point is that the items he wanted were available, for an additional cost, and he was asking, basically, for discount. Which is fine. Ask away. Don't be upset when someone says no.

I don't see it as poor customer service, as long as they were polite when saying no.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Steve what he asked is a different option, it wouldn't hurt FW to make a small change FW happy, customer happy.

It seems flexibility is not a done thing at FW

Yes, I know. He asked to change the bundle, a bundle they have made and costed, and they said no. Yes, the cost may have been minimal, or it may not have been. The point is that the items he wanted were available, for an additional cost, and he was asking, basically, for discount. Which is fine. Ask away. Don't be upset when someone says no.

I don't see it as poor customer service, as long as they were polite when saying no.

No, he was asking if they could swap out X bolters for Y bolters, presumably cast separately to the rest of the bundle on their own sprue, so the workload for FW would be minimal. I'm sure he'd have accepted if they'd offered to do it for extra few bucks, but his only option is to get that bundle, and an additional set of bolters for £30, or buy it piecemeal for more.

Yes they don't have to do such a trade, but the effort to them is minimal and doing so would result in good-will.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Steve what he asked is a different option, it wouldn't hurt FW to make a small change FW happy, customer happy.

It seems flexibility is not a done thing at FW

Yes, I know. He asked to change the bundle, a bundle they have made and costed, and they said no. Yes, the cost may have been minimal, or it may not have been. The point is that the items he wanted were available, for an additional cost, and he was asking, basically, for discount. Which is fine. Ask away. Don't be upset when someone says no.

I don't see it as poor customer service, as long as they were polite when saying no.

See thats where you & I differ, there is no real reason for not being able to; being polite about it doesn't change the fact. Their costed Bundle etc, is no concern of mine, that is their business. When I buy a Product, I don't care how a Company internally accounts for it, or costs it, frankly I don't care. I care abouthow much this is costing me.

I won't accept No unless there is a really good reason. I am continually shocked at how many of you are so happy to just pay up and never question anything, it would explain why GW keeps the prices rising because very few of you will argue why or demand a good level of service?

Consumer rights are important, fighting for customer service is a minimum. Customer Advocacy is the key to loyalty and actually the top 15% of this are likely to recommend the product to a Friend. I buy from John Lewis alot because they are brilliant at Customer Service, I bought a Samsung TV Series 7 and they gave me a 5 year Warranty...I took it back 18months later when a Fault happened, and the model wasn't available so they gave me the next model up (WOW...Customer service right there!).

Why accept the minimum a company will give you, demand better service, demand a premium service for a premium product.

This would have definitely generated good-will and I would have come on here and said "Wow Great service from FW" but now i get "No".

I doubt employees would be allowed to open a pre-packed bundle up and swap the packs for something else, or interfere with the packing process just to change the contents of one. After all, if they're just going to let people change the contents, then there isn't much point in having the bundles in the first place, unless they set up a "create your own" version.

I think asking them was worth a try, but on the other hand I don't think they did anything wrong by saying no. Disappointing, but the risk was always there.

 mwnciboo wrote:
I'm not sure how you make grand sweeping statements like that, especially when you read the HH series and there are many Exceptions.

The reason I went for Umbra Ferrox was that the Weapon best represented the AD MECH relationship with the Iron Hands because each Boltgun came with a Targeter which seems reasonable for a Legion that Venerates Technology and has a close relationship with AD MECH. Does that satisfy you?

The HH series are pockets of action in which extraordinary heroes doe insane things that sometimes end up with them being killed or glorified. There are still thousands upon thousands of Astartes that are your stock standard tactical marine, so it's probably not so much of a "grand sweeping statement" when that is what they were issued. With that being said, using your marines with those bolters are fine, but for FW to change a bundle just because you don't like the bolter pattern they matched with an armor pattern doesn't sound like bad customer service, it sounds like a company selling a set product and a customer not liking that set product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

No, he was asking if they could swap out X bolters for Y bolters, presumably cast separately to the rest of the bundle on their own sprue, so the workload for FW would be minimal. I'm sure he'd have accepted if they'd offered to do it for extra few bucks, but his only option is to get that bundle, and an additional set of bolters for £30, or buy it piecemeal for more.

Yes they don't have to do such a trade, but the effort to them is minimal and doing so would result in good-will.

At first it results in good will for a single person, and then when I hear I can ask them to switch out the bolters, I ask and they do it because they've done it once. And then they do it for my three friends that want the bundles, etc... etc.. etc.. What if when my bundle arrives, it's not with the bolters I asked for? I whine and bitch, and any attempt at goodwill they garnered just went out the window.

Herzlos wrote:


Yes they don't have to do such a trade, but the effort to them is minimal and doing so would result in good-will.

It also sets a precedent for something they don't want to commit to.

There's a reason you can no longer buy sprues from GW like you used to be able to buy. It was costing them an arm and a leg to staff that position. If every Tom, Dick, and Harry wanted weapon swaps on the Tactical squad sets or the contemptor dreadnought sets or the terminator sets or the assault marine sets, it might cause all kinds of delays in shipping and they have to staff someone to do it.

You can bet your ass I'd get one of those contemptor packages if I could swap out the silly weapons they have in them now for 3 Mortis pattern ones.

I would certainly have liked for them to agree to your request, OP. I'd make some of my own. But I understand why they said no.

Make the request and the company responds by saying it can do it with a bit of effort = Great Service

Make the request and the company responds by politely saying it cannot do it and reason why = Good Service

Make the request and the company responds saying it can't do it and calls you names for asking = Bad Service


Just because people aren't bending over backwards to help you out doesnt mean it is bad service. You want them to change an advertised bundle, their discretion as to if they say yay or nay.

Plus Alfndrate brings up a great point where their that form of service could hurt them down the track.

Why not buy the big kit as they sell it, sell the bolters you dont want and use the money to buy the ones you want? You may not get full price but even at a discount you can get pretty close.

Dont see what the complaining is about. They sell you a product and you have two options.
1: you buy it
2: you dont buy it
That being said there is nothing wrong with asking if you can get something changed, but the chances of that happening is extremely slim and nothing to count on happening. Its as simple as that.
A company just cant change its production line for one person, then more will want its stuff changed out and your in a world of inefficiency for several different reasons.
Times change, company's grow. It might work for a very small company that doesn't sell that much.

 jason1977 wrote:
Why not buy the big kit as they sell it, sell the bolters you dont want and use the money to buy the ones you want? You may not get full price but even at a discount you can get pretty close.

I'm fairly certain he could sell them to US people for the 30 GBP price, and even with the shipping across the pond it would be cheaper than buying from FW

So you can buy the armor by itself and the guns by itself, and it costs a little more?

You get a discount for buying 'bundles' and you want customized 'bundles?

This is like when Chinese restaurants have 'combos' with no substitutions, you want something similar but different? order it separately and pay the extra cost.

If the 'bundle' didn't exist, you would have nothing to complain about. Your complaint and sense of entitlement is absurd. The core of the idea is you believe being a 'customer' buys you stock in how the company should be run. You giving them money entitles you to nothing more than the product delivered. You have 'NO INVESTMENT' in Forgeworld and they are not beholden to you at all.

You can still get what you want, but you can't get the bundle price, this is pretty common across every industry ever. It is not bad customer service.

Sounds like the bundles are being produced out of house then as they say is how they are supplied to them(them being forgeworld). This means they could be drop shipping them from their contracted manufacturer so never lay their hands on the parcel to make the swap.

This is not news or rumors. Just an example of the customer not always being right.

nkelsch wrote:
So you can buy the armor by itself and the guns by itself, and it costs a little more?

You get a discount for buying 'bundles' and you want customized 'bundles?

This is like when Chinese restaurants have 'combos' with no substitutions, you want something similar but different? order it separately and pay the extra cost.

If the 'bundle' didn't exist, you would have nothing to complain about. Your complaint and sense of entitlement is absurd. The core of the idea is you believe being a 'customer' buys you stock in how the company should be run. You giving them money entitles you to nothing more than the product delivered. You have 'NO INVESTMENT' in Forgeworld and they are not beholden to you at all.

You can still get what you want, but you can't get the bundle price, this is pretty common across every industry ever. It is not bad customer service.

Well said , FW does not have bad customer service. They don't have the infrastructure to make "custom" orders like a smaller company like kromlech or max mini or some other resin company.

Hum, IMHO I don't see anything wrong with their service. Not all companies have the flexibility and availability to switch something from a pre-made bundle to serve your needs. It can be a policy enforced from the higher-ups and even if they wished to help, they can't.

They replied politely and told you they can't, just accept it and re-plan.

And your example for the TV, that's isn't a good example. They are doing what they require, replace a faulty product that's under a Warranty contract. I heard storied how FW is the exact same, in fact, they sometimes goof up and that was good. My FLGS owner asked for a piece that was missing from a "blister" and they sent another full blister (don't ask me which one was it). When he asked about that situation they just said "Yeah, our bad, just keep the extras".

I'm not seeing how this issue is bad service. While it would be nice, I can see why they would say they can't do this. At my job, I tell people every day we can't do something even though if we really wanted to we could .This is primarily because if we did such for every customer that asked, our performance would crash overnight and it'd take us four times as long and cost eight times as much to get anything done and that would hurt everyone a whole lot worse.

It sucks, but it's not bad service, if they did such things for even 5% of customers, I can bet you there'd be a noticeable impact on their output.

Agree, they are not under an obligation to modify product based solely on your independently created expectations.

They could have I am sure, but they didn't have to and there should have been no expectation on your part. You created your own issue here unfortunately...

Frankly, I'm staggered that the OP seems to have got a reply to an email to FW!

In all seriousness, they offered option A for sale, you asked for option B. They said "sorry, we can't do option B" You got cross.

That's not bad service, bad service would have just been ignoring you.