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So, I am hoping to take my Blood Angels to a tournament that is coming up. 1750, blah, blah, blah. I am hoping to take the Sanguinor with me, but I want your opinion on him, whether this would be a good idea or not, pros and cons, yadda-yadda-yadda. Thank you!

Really need to know what else is in your list. If you are running him with units in Razor backs, then probably not. Running him with 6 squads of 10 assault marines, possible.

Fun to use on the tabletop, can give nice bonus to a useful model, but may give it to somebody pointless. Fluff is abysmal.

Just done send him against 2+ save models because nobody will be doing anything to the other guy for a while.

I'd run him in a list where you only have one sergeant to upgrade. That way you can give him a lightning claw and a power fist, and whatever else you can think of

I like the Sanguinor but he will eat up a bunch of your points, at 1750 it's a tough call. Are you playing missions or just uh ...killing each other? I assume a tourni will be using missions and you will need troops for objectives. If he was a Flying Monstrous Creature I'd say yeah for sure... but I dunno, I'd personally leave him home for this one.

I agree that the fluff is abysmal lol.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
I'd run him in a list where you only have one sergeant to upgrade. That way you can give him a lightning claw and a power fist, and whatever else you can think of

I am trying to understand what you mean here; but I'm just not getting it. Please elaborate?

I might be alone, but I dig the fluff on him. And he might not be the best points usage at that level, and with his power sword being AP3 keep him far away from TEQs as mentioned above ( much like Mephihston)

 Gunzhard wrote:
I am trying to understand what you mean here; but I'm just not getting it. Please elaborate?

The Sanguinor buffs up one random Sergeant into a kind of mini Captain before the game starts - +1 to WS, BS, Initiative and Wounds I believe. If you only had one Sergeant in the list, you can guarantee him getting that buff. It's kinda like getting a cheap Captain...which does help mitigate the Sanguinor's cost... but running with minimal squads would be a pretty poor list to run.

...*unless*...

The two units I can think of that don't have Sergeants are Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. This could leave one Assault squad with meltaguns to get your mini-captain (let's call him Steve). Give him a power axe, power sword and melta bombs to choose for different targets while still keeping him *sorta* cheap. Said squad drops down in Deep Strike, takes out a tank or two as is tradition, then flits around with Steve to help be killy if they've survived that long. You then get to fill out with either Dantewing or full on DC to get more Troops for objectives. And both SG and DC do really well with the Sanguinor's extra attack...

In fact - that's pretty damn brutal. Think about it. Sanguinor as one HQ, Astorath as the other, a couple of Chaplains, and all remaining points on DC. 1500 points gets you 4 characters and roughly 35-40 DC split between bolters and close combat with some special weapons thrown into the latter. That's an army with a moderate footprint that a sizeable chunk of gets 6 fully rerollable attacks on the charge...

Okay. Super Ready, my one problem is I don't have any DC models. I have several assault/tactical squads, but no DC, and only one SG squad. And Gunzhard, what I mean is on the tabletop. As far as your experience or general thoughts of him.

I think he is way overcosted.
It's lame that he buffs a random sergeant and he should be IC with his +1A aura.

His stats are really weird!
Only 3 wounds and T4, really?
WS8, what does he need to do with that?

Kangodo wrote:
I think he is way overcosted.
It's lame that he buffs a random sergeant and he should be IC with his +1A aura.

His stats are really weird!
Only 3 wounds and T4, really?
WS8, what does he need to do with that?

Don't forget that he has 2+/3++ and Eternal Warrior. Only Lysander is meaner when comparing special characters, and those two are nigh-impossible to slay, since they'll be laughing at your Strength 8-10 dakka with the 3+ Invulnerable save. The difference between Lysander and Sanguinor is that the latter hits with an Initiative of fragging SIX! Holy Throne of Terra, if the rolls are against you and screw up too many saves, he'll grind your Assault marines/Vanguards to pulp before they can do anything - even when trying to tarpit that golden MEQ blender.
Yes, point taken, he costs 75 points more than Lysander, but he's on a damn jump pack. He's a massive fire magnet that won't die easily, but he's coming at your objectives - like there was no tomorrow!

I just forgo scoring models for BA anyway haha. I say ally in c:sm sternguard (unless he pumps them too) in a pod, DC and DC dread with the latter in a storm raven and take a vanguard squad with a pimped out sergeant. He can assault from reserve which makes him pretty awesome.

The Sanguinor can be good -- but hes not an IC so can't join a squad. His 3++ helps him stay alive and if he's near a Priest he is hard to take out. But he in now way is going to get his points back.

I agree with the Vanguard Vet Sgt. getting a fist and a claw to eat anything alive with D.C. in a raven. ( I personally play Vets with a double fist.. but im CrAzY ).

He just might not get his points back and thats the inherent problem with him. Having him near DC on the charge is absolutely insane and they will eat anything they connect with though.

 Tigramans wrote:
Don't forget that he has 2+/3++ and Eternal Warrior.

Seeing as he has to go alone I would prefer a higher Toughness with a worse Inv-save.

Only Lysander is meaner when comparing special characters, and those two are nigh-impossible to slay, since they'll be laughing at your Strength 8-10 dakka with the 3+ Invulnerable save.

The biggest defence to S8-10 attacks is the unit that joins Lysander.
That's why I think Sanguinor is weak! Nobody cares about shooting with big attacks, you just put him down with lots of smaller fire.

The difference between Lysander and Sanguinor is that the latter hits with an Initiative of fragging SIX! Holy Throne of Terra, if the rolls are against you and screw up too many saves, he'll grind your Assault marines/Vanguards to pulp before they can do anything - even when trying to tarpit that golden MEQ blender.
Yes, point taken, he costs 75 points more than Lysander, but he's on a damn jump pack. He's a massive fire magnet that won't die easily, but he's coming at your objectives - like there was no tomorrow!

Sanguinor might not die very quickly, but he is too easily neutralised for his costs.
That gets even worse when we have two 'useless abilities' and the lack of IC.

Like Nefrugle says: You will almost never get his points back.

So, here is another opiniated question; what are your thoughts of Dante? I think he is pretty good too, but I don't use him nearly as often. Your opinion?

 HinataXemnas wrote:
So, here is another opiniated question; what are your thoughts of Dante? I think he is pretty good too, but I don't use him nearly as often. Your opinion?

Dante's ok if you're planning on using a "Dante-bomb", being annoying by hitting and running out of combat and/or using Sanguinary Guard as troops, but he's too expensive now... like, he costs as much as Skarbrand (!).

 Tigramans wrote:
Don't forget that he has 2+/3++ and Eternal Warrior. Only Lysander is meaner when comparing special characters

Only if you're only looking at those 2 codices. There's meaner special characters than those 2.

also funny how they gimped dante's high initiative with a power axe. nice one there

Kangodo wrote:
Seeing as he has to go alone I would prefer a higher Toughness with a worse Inv-save.

That'd also work. Toughness would make him even nastier in close combat, but he'd lose to tougher dudes with his worse invulnerability save (if it was 4+ or so). That would actually sound decent.

The biggest defence to S8-10 attacks is the unit that joins Lysander.
That's why I think Sanguinor is weak! Nobody cares about shooting with big attacks, you just put him down with lots of smaller fire.

I knew that you'd mention this. He's STILL rather survivable due to 2+ armour save. Yes, he'll screw up the saves one day, but I've already lost twice to the player who has used Sanguinor in his lists, while I've concentrated ALL firepower against that single melee monster, that moves 12" per turn.
But I acknowledge that if he was put up against a loota-heavy army of Orks, he'd get annihilated to his own deployment zone... or just have a date with 6th Ed Tau, that'd be even worse. But really; when are you going to put him on your list if you know you're possibly playing against a dakka army?

Sanguinor might not die very quickly, but he is too easily neutralised for his costs.
That gets even worse when we have two 'useless abilities' and the lack of IC.

The Sanguinor's Blessing? Turn one of your sergeants into a super-sergeant, are you kidding me? I absolutely agree with you. One of the brainfarts in the book - like Librarian Dreads, or deep striking Land Raiders. Let's hope they'll fix things up in the upcoming BA Codex.
But Aura of Fervor is debatable. Ironically, even though he can't join any units, he can buff them by being close to them. 6" +1 Attack bubble is rather mixed.

Like Nefrugle says: You will almost never get his points back.

It might be so, that he's not buying himself back, but he has always successfully emptied my objectives. I believe that's enough. What, game's killpoints? Awesome, he's coming at my scouts and devastators. They're done goofed.

The Sanguinor is not as easy to put down with firepower in an actual battle as some are claiming. Remember he's just one model, with the mobility and terrain-ignoring ability of a jump pack, and his wings don't count for line of sight. That means if you have anything approaching a decent amount of terrain, you can move him up quickly whilst still keeping him out of line of sight for *at least* a turn if not two.

Dante is useful in the right circumstances, but ultimately he costs too much for that usefulness. I'll only take him in bigger games now, where the cost is less noticeable. It's definitely a case of picking your targets with him - his 2+ save works well enough but don't be tempted to go against hard targets like Terminators. Because he isn't striking first, and doesn't have Eternal Warrior, it's all too easy to get smacked by a power fist and fail that 4++ before (or perhaps at the same time as) he's killed anything.

 Super Ready wrote:

Dante is useful in the right circumstances, but ultimately he costs too much for that usefulness. I'll only take him in bigger games now, where the cost is less noticeable. It's definitely a case of picking your targets with him - his 2+ save works well enough but don't be tempted to go against hard targets like Terminators. Because he isn't striking first, and doesn't have Eternal Warrior, it's all too easy to get smacked by a power fist and fail that 4++ before (or perhaps at the same time as) he's killed anything.

*Nothing, messed up two characters, my bad*

The initiative chop to Dante is really frustrating and just seems so wrong... he is the master of the 'surgical strike' but he has to wait until your are done attacking him before he can 'strike'. Bleh I hate that because I love to use Dante and Sanguinary Guard. Yeah too expensive as well...