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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:12:15
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Can a zooming flyer make snap shots with weapons in addition to the four it is allowed to fire at full BS?
The regular vehicle rules for moving and shooting say:
A vehicle that moved at Combat Speed may fire a single weapon using its full Ballistic Skill. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other weapons of it wishes.
The zooming flyer rules say:
Zooming flyers can fire up to four of their weapons using their full Ballistic Skill if they have moved at either Combat Speed or Cruising Speed that turn.
There is no mention of making additional Snap Shots with a zooming flyer. Is it assumed it is the same as the normal vehicle rules or is it limited to four weapons, period, not even Snap Shots can be fired with any additional?
The Snap Shot rules don't say weapons can always take Snap Shots but that under certain circumstances they can only make Snap Shots. So I assume you have to be given permission to fire Snap Shots before you can make them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:29:27
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Dakka Veteran
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There is no mention of making additional Snap Shots with a zooming flyer.
Most players that I've played with interpret the rules the same as I do in that the only explicit mentioning of flyers firing weapons is the 4 weapons at full BS. Since there are no mention of additional shots nor different categorizations of movement ranges for zooming flyers (just the 1 range for the movement phase), I would say 4 is the max.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:35:19
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Calm Celestian
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Which flyers have more than 4 weapons? The only ones I can think of are FW and have their own slew of rules for firing...
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My Sisters of Battle Thread
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/783053.page
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:36:09
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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mrwhoop wrote:Which flyers have more than 4 weapons? The only ones I can think of are FW and have their own slew of rules for firing...
Vendetta or Valkyrie upgraded with sponsons heavy bolters. Both have a total of 5 weapons. Automatically Appended Next Post: I took it to mean the max is 4, no Snap Shots allowed. Most local gamers play it like normal vehicles where all other weapons can make Snap Shots. I was wondering if I missed something somewhere allowing Snap Shots from flyers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/25 16:37:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:38:09
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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mrwhoop wrote:Which flyers have more than 4 weapons? The only ones I can think of are FW and have their own slew of rules for firing...
The Stormraven has a total of 6, 8 if you opt for the sponson Hurricane bolters. 1 front Multi-Melta, 1 top assault or lascannon, 4 Bloodstrike Missiles, 2 hurricane bolters.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:38:09
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Fixture of Dakka
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RAW = No
RAI = Maybe
Nothing seems to give them permission to fire more than 4 weapons, it seems kind hinted at by the mention of full bs but nothing flat out says you can snap fire so until errata'd or faq'd it doesn't seem like you can.
I believe the storm raven can fire 5 because of potms
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/25 16:38:42
Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:41:12
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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DeathReaper wrote: mrwhoop wrote:Which flyers have more than 4 weapons? The only ones I can think of are FW and have their own slew of rules for firing...
The Stormraven has a total of 6, 8 if you opt for the sponson Hurricane bolters. 1 front Multi-Melta, 1 top assault or lascannon, 4 Bloodstrike Missiles, 2 hurricane bolters.
You are limited to 2 missiles or bombs a turn so that is 4 weapons normally, 6 if you take the hurricane bolters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 16:53:22
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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LUTNIT wrote: DeathReaper wrote: mrwhoop wrote:Which flyers have more than 4 weapons? The only ones I can think of are FW and have their own slew of rules for firing...
The Stormraven has a total of 6, 8 if you opt for the sponson Hurricane bolters. 1 front Multi-Melta, 1 top assault or lascannon, 4 Bloodstrike Missiles, 2 hurricane bolters.
You are limited to 2 missiles or bombs a turn so that is 4 weapons normally, 6 if you take the hurricane bolters.
Ok... It still can have 8 weapons, which is what I was pointing out because of the question posed:
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/25 16:54:09
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 23:00:33
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Page 71 BRB. "A vehicle may also fire snapshots with its other weapons if it wishes"
A flyer is a vehicle.
The 4 weapons at full BS is just like the fast vehicle rule allowing 2 at full BS.
The real question is if a flyer fires an ordnance missile do all of its other weapons have to snapshot?
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 23:11:58
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Different sub-types of vehicles have different specific shooting rules. For example Fast vehicles shooting says:
Fast vehicles that moved at Cruising Speed can fire up to two weapons using their full Ballistic Skill - other weapons can only make Snap Shots.
So they specify how many it can shoot and that it can make additional Snap Shots if it wishes. The flyer rules specify how many can shoot but makes no mention of Snap Shots.
A walker can fire everything at full BS when it moves and it's a vehicle. Does that mean all vehicles can fire everything when they move?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 23:25:02
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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DOOMONYOU wrote:Page 71 BRB. "A vehicle may also fire snapshots with its other weapons if it wishes"
A flyer is a vehicle.
The 4 weapons at full BS is just like the fast vehicle rule allowing 2 at full BS.
The real question is if a flyer fires an ordnance missile do all of its other weapons have to snapshot?
This. Flyers are vehicles and follow all the vehicle rules except where noted. There is permission to fire 4 weapons at full BS. There is no restriction on firing a certain number of snap shot weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 23:31:25
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Why would the fast vehicle rules specifically say they can make Snap Shots after they reach their max if it was in the general vehicle rule and applies to all vehicles? The fact that it's in the rules for fast vehicles and not in the flyer rules leads me to believe the omission was intentional.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/25 23:32:54
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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And that would be RAI perhaps. Show me the rule that limits a flyers snap shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 00:32:45
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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The Hive Mind
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Specific > General.
Flyers are limited to 4 guns when zooming. This conflicts with and overrides the normal "fire anything you've got at different BS" that a nor al vehicle gets.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 00:41:45
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Dakka Veteran
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The rule merely specifies that they fire 4 weapons at full BS. It does not change the number of weapons that are fired as snapshots. That may have been the intended implication, but the rule doesn't go that far.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 01:12:14
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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The Hive Mind
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Pyrian wrote:The rule merely specifies that they fire 4 weapons at full BS. It does not change the number of weapons that are fired as snapshots. That may have been the intended implication, but the rule doesn't go that far.
It does so by omission.
There's no allowance to fire more than 4 weapons, so you cannot.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 01:32:42
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:Pyrian wrote:The rule merely specifies that they fire 4 weapons at full BS. It does not change the number of weapons that are fired as snapshots. That may have been the intended implication, but the rule doesn't go that far.
It does so by omission.
There's no allowance to fire more than 4 weapons, so you cannot.
There is no "omission" rule. I have permission because the Flyer is a vehicle. You have to show where that permission is denied. The Flyer rule clarifies the shooting rules for vehicles that limit their number of shots at Full BS. Normally it is 1, Flyers it is 4. I can show a rule that gives me permission. You have to show one that restricts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 02:48:21
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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The Hive Mind
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The flyer rules are more specific.
Flyers have permission to fire 4 weapons. Find permission to fire more than 4 weapons.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 03:28:07
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Douglas Bader
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rigeld2 wrote:Flyers have permission to fire 4 weapons. Find permission to fire more than 4 weapons.
Again, the vehicle rules say that your extra weapons can fire as snap shots. Flyers have permission to fire four weapons at full BS, they do NOT have any rule that says they are limited to just those four weapons. There is no general vs. specific conflict here. It's the equivalent of saying that a model with the Relentless USR can not fire assault or pistol weapons because the Relentless USR only mentions rapid fire, heavy, ordnance and salvo weapons.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 03:51:36
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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The Hive Mind
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I'll concede this one, even though I disagree with your interpretation.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 06:38:50
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Brainy Zoanthrope
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"
A vehicle that moved at Combat Speed may fire a single weapon using its full Ballistic Skill. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other weapons of it wishes.
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Did your flyer move at Combat Speed?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 08:27:34
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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If it moved 18" it did. If more it moved cruising speed. It is allowed to fire all weapons but only as snap shots at cruising speed too. Which the flyer rules augment to being able to fire 4 at full Be. My original interpretation was that it was 4 and that's it but it appears I was wrong.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 11:23:44
Subject: Re:Zooming flyers and snap shots
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Does the fire 4 at full BS override the ordnance rule of fire an ordnance weapon then everything else snapshots?
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/26 12:24:12
Subject: Zooming flyers and snap shots
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The Hive Mind
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Baktru wrote:"
A vehicle that moved at Combat Speed may fire a single weapon using its full Ballistic Skill. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other weapons of it wishes.
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Did your flyer move at Combat Speed?
Read the rules for Zooming - yes. Automatically Appended Next Post: DOOMONYOU wrote:Does the fire 4 at full BS override the ordnance rule of fire an ordnance weapon then everything else snapshots?
No. The vehicle rules for Ordnance win out.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/26 12:24:37
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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