Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Super Ready: If you really want to go there, then I guess that's that. But that's also destructive of FAQs, I think - GW is actually explicit on their website that their FAQs should be considered to have the same force as house rules, but we treat them like official rulings. There's not really a coherent set of meta-rules in place which determine what constitutes a legitimate rule. I think we're all just resigned to that. "Supplement overrules BRB" is a reasonable meta-rule to adopt here.

I also note that Farsight Enclaves doesn't need to be physically part of Codex: Tau Empire in order for it to constitute a "codex" or to be part of some broader "Tau codex"; I'm not sure these terms are ever defined in the rules. "Codex: Tau Empire" is just the name of a book; this is the confusion I've been pointing out for a while about the difference between a name for a particular published work and a collection of rules. Codex: Tau Empire is emphatically not a set of rules. It's a book. That book describes a set of rules. It's probably sensible to call those rules "Codex: Tau Empire" or similar. This is hardly an insane qualification; it's essentially just a map-territory issue. "The map is not the territory" is not an insane qualification. It has its own Wikipedia page.

GW did away with the house rules statement.

On this topic, if I use a farsight army, can I still toss in things like tetras you guys think? (assume locally allows forgeworld)

When allying Farsight Enclaves with Tau you cannot use eachothers devilfish transports because you are battlebrothers. Neither are special rules (think about reserve manipulations for instance) carried over. so no you really can't use your allies marker lights. just the ones generated by their own detachment.

Mulletdude wrote:
I think you're looking into it too much. It's a supplement, not an entirely new codex. The reason the markerlight rule is worded that was is to prevent non-tau units from using markerlight bonuses.

This

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Well... Yes.

Precedent states otherwise. For example the 3.5ed chaos codex, which changed armylist based on many,many factors

A) not a relevant codex - please don't use it in an argument
B) so a codex explicitly had multiple army lists... It's almost like - wait for it - a codex can do things if there's a specific exception.
Interesting concept.

 Ghaz wrote:
So a codex can only have a single army list?

Well.. yeah..
At the moment I think that supplements aren't working that great.
Hopefully they will add more interaction between the Codex and their Supplements in the future.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Enclave has special Ally rules, they can ally with everyone Tau can + treat Tau as BBs

**BFF's!

Rigeld - so when is a codex not a relevant one? It is still A codex, and still disproves the statement that a codex can only have A single list.

I will use any relevant example I can use, regardless of whether you believe it is relevant. It wasnt the only codex to do this, and is unlikely to be the only one in future.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Rigeld - so when is a codex not a relevant one? It is still A codex, and still disproves the statement that a codex can only have A single list.

It's not relevant because its not current.

I will use any relevant example I can use, regardless of whether you believe it is relevant. It wasnt the only codex to do this, and is unlikely to be the only one in future.

And again - even if it was a current codex, having multiple Army Lists is the exception, not the rule.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
GW did away with the house rules statement.

Where do they do that? I still see that statement on their current website on the page before the one that presents all of the most current FAQs. See: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=1000018§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=3400019&start=1&multiPageMode=true

Note that if they didn't do that in the rulebook itself, or if they didn't even reference FAQs in the BRB (and I'm not seeing that they do), then you still need to make up a meta-rule to allow those outside sources. There's a qualitative difference between questions about what constitute valid sources of rules and how those sources or rules go about overruling each other when they seem to conflict and questions about the meaning of rules given in particular sources regardless of whether or not those sources are legitimate or whether those rules are overruled by other rules.

 sudojoe wrote:
On this topic, if I use a farsight army, can I still toss in things like tetras you guys think? (assume locally allows forgeworld)

I don't know that this is clear. Forgeworld books sometimes say something like "may be chosen as Fast Attack choices in a Codex Eldar army." What's a "Codex Eldar army"? The rules don't really say, and that's a really weird construction. Another entry might say "are a HQ choice for an Imperial Guard army". This seems clearer; "Imperial Guard army" is probably one that is chosen using the rules presented in Codex: Imperial Guard (or whatever it's called). But is a Farsight Enclaves army also a Tau Empire army? Who knows? The supplement gives rules that hinge on whether or not an army is a "Farsight Enclaves army" but never says anything about whether or not it is also a "Tau Empire army". Mostly, Forgeworld rules are already sloppy and you should probably have discussed whether or not your opponent is fine with you using FW anyway. I doubt anybody is going to object that you can't use a Barracuda because you're not technically a "Tau Empire army" or whatever the requirement the FW rules give for taking one is.

I don't think you can ally Tau and Tau. Does the supplement say it is battle brothers with the standard Tau codex? If it does then great. If it doesn't, then no amount of wordplay will allow it.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to ally Eldar with Iyanden and take 6 Wraithlords, but I can't.

As was pointed out earlier, Farsight Enclave is BB with Tau Empire.

Funny. Marker lights are used by tau. Farsight is tau. He has a dude that brings marker lights. Why complicate matters about it and just let the marker light question fall off.

It's like saying eldar iyanden, can't have guide cast by a codex farseer on them because mixing the two in an army makes them not the same, because they are two separate army books.

Odd.

 Happyjew wrote:
As was pointed out earlier, Farsight Enclave is BB with Tau Empire.

Is this written in a codex somewhere?

DarthDiggler wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
As was pointed out earlier, Farsight Enclave is BB with Tau Empire.

Is this written in a codex somewhere?

It is in the supplement.

Please quote the exact text. Is there is an ally chart in the supplement I missed?

BB is irrelevant, several people have posted that Tau cannot ally with Tau, your primary and allied detachments cannot be from the same army.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Please quote the exact text. Is there is an ally chart in the supplement I missed?

Page 298 of the ePub version:

ALLIES
In addition to following the Allies Matrix for
Codex: Tau Empire, Farsight Enclaves
detachments and Codex: Tau Empire
detachments may ally together as Battle
Brothers.

Ahhhh ok that makes more sense to me, there is a specific provision that allows them to ally AS BB. I stand corrected.

Though to be fair, I do not own the actual supplement, and got this from a different site.

I own the iPad version and it is listed on page 89 of that version and reads exactly as stated above.

Noc

/facepalm

how the hell is this even a topic of discussion. A supplement is just that A SUPPLEMENT OF A FEW RULES to add some flavor to Codex:Tau Empire. You guys are freaking rule lawyering like your life depended on it. Have fun finding any games with players acting like this.

Tau can use tau markerlights, farsight is a freaking TAU! So weird isn't it. again /facepalm this whole thread.

 Gray1378 wrote:
/facepalm

how the hell is this even a topic of discussion. A supplement is just that A SUPPLEMENT OF A FEW RULES to add some flavor to Codex:Tau Empire. You guys are freaking rule lawyering like your life depended on it. Have fun finding any games with players acting like this.

Tau can use tau markerlights, farsight is a freaking TAU! So weird isn't it. again /facepalm this whole thread.

Its the same reason people suddenly started arguing the bad wording that makes infiltrate rule units unable to enter reserves and NOT infiltrate, thus allowing ICs to join it (thinking Farsight bomb here with shadowsun). People rather rule-lawyer the damn thing to nonexistance than figure out how to deal with it.

If you have to dig this hard, youre trying to find a reason that helps your side of the damn thing. Theyre tau, markerlights only help tau, kroot, and vespid. Therefore they help tau, why the crap do they have to straight up say "Even though the Farsight Suppliment is an ally detachment, marker lights from the main Tau force can transfer over" when its painfully obvious (not to mention horribbly annoying to do otherwise) theyre suppose to transfer since theyre all TAU!?

If, somehow, you've managed to wander into YMDC without understanding the purpose of the forum, you may wish to wander back out again.

YMDC is full of discussions probing the actual letter of the rules. Understand that essentially NO ONE in here is advocating playing by the absolute letter of the rules.

Posts like this one:
"If you have to dig this hard, youre trying to find a reason that helps your side of the damn thing."
Do nothing to further conversation, and will be treated as spam.

Based on the MODs comment, here is some idea from the OP (me) why questions like this get asked.

Basically, with supplements being so new, this question was a prime way to find out if these supplements are part of or separate from the original codex.

Questions like these are necessarily meant to be used in friendly games to screw over your opponent. Friendly games are exactly that. I often let people slide on a lot of rules with the ideas of playing friendly games.

Having knowledge of some of the more in-depth issues posted in this forum is a great tool when it comes to playing tournaments and you have the WAAC guy who thinks he knows everything and tries to bend the rules to his advantage.

As log as these threads maintain civil and on subject discussions. They will continue to be a great tool and very useful.

Redacted for being spammy. Read the warning above. --Janthkin

Location 1665 on the Kindle version of the supplement reads: "A Farsight Enclaves army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to the material found in Codex: Tau Empire."

Location 1679 states: "In addition to following the Allies Matrix for Codex: Tau Empire, Farsight Enclaves detachments and Codex: Tau Empire detachments may ally together as Battle Brothers."

Units in a Farsight Enclaves list are drawn from the C: TE army list, thereby gaining access by way of unit entry to the same units and options presented in C: TE. Hence, S: FE and C: TE units can both use the same markerlights. A Farsight Commander still has access to everything except the Signature Systems list because the supplement has a Signature Systems list that overrides the one in C: TE.

If you were to take S: FE as your primary detachment and a C: TE detachment as an allied detachment, you can then have your S: FE Commander take SS options from the S: FE and your allied C: TE Commander take options from the C: TE SS table.

However, since S: FE does not have a weapons/wargear/support list that overrides the originals in C: TE, the S: FE commander can still take weapons from there (plasma rifles, missile pods, target locks, etc).