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Hi all,

I've been working on a newish project (found here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/534104.page) and it's getting to the point where I need to firm up a list.

I haven't played Eldar since 2008 and don't have opportunities to play all that often. My armies tend to lean more towards the fluff side than competitive, but I don't want to field something that will be rolled over by everything.

HQ - Spiritseer w/ Wraithforge Stone, guardian Helm of Xellethon
HQ - Spiritseer - Stock

TP - Wraithguard w/ WC (x8)
TP - Wraithguard w/ WC (x8)

TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Scythe (x6)

TP - Wraithblade w/ Axe and shield (x5)
TP - Wraithblade w/ Axe and shield (x5)

HS - Wraithlord w/ Glaive, Scatter Laser, Brightlance
HS - Wraithlord w/ Glaive, Scatter Laser, Brightlance

HS - Wraithknight - Stock

Total points - 1844

I have been reading various tactics and army list threads, but most involve using transports. Due to the fluffy nature of this project transports are right out.
I figure the Spiritseers can join the D-scythe WG and walk behind the other Wraithguard/blades. Everything will move in forward in a block and hopefully survive long enough to get close.

A couple of questions in addition to if this can work.
1) Is the Wraithforge stone worth taking? It has limited range and works 2/3 the time. Could those points be better spent elsewhere?
2) Is a Farseer a better option than a second Spiritseer?

Thanks and take care

The spiritseers are the only thing giving your army some mobility, definetly keep them.

Spiritseers are a must, keep them. Their primaris will be the only thing keeping your firepower mobile. Though I wish you could have found the poitns to get the Spear of Tethuas on one Seer, goes great with Wraithblades.

I don't like the 2x5 Wraithblades with Axe/Shield. I think you are better of with 1x10. The turn your 2x8 Wraithguard into 5,5,6.

Love the stock Wriathknight.

Hi all,

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:The spiritseers are the only thing giving your army some mobility, definetly keep them.

Zagman wrote:Spiritseers are a must, keep them. Their primaris will be the only thing keeping your firepower mobile. Though I wish you could have found the poitns to get the Spear of Tethuas on one Seer, goes great with Wraithblades.

I don't like the 2x5 Wraithblades with Axe/Shield. I think you are better of with 1x10. The turn your 2x8 Wraithguard into 5,5,6.

Love the stock Wriathknight.

Ok, ok, I get it. Spiritseers will be no less than two.
Should I considered adding a third Spiritseer?

Zagman - Why do like Wraithblades in a unit of 10?

I did make a change to the list. HQ and HS stayed the same, but the troop selection now look like this:

TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Scythe (x6)

TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)

TP - Wraithblade w/ Axe and Shield (x6)

This version appears to have a wee bit more flexibility. WriathBlades are now acting like an honor guard or bodyguard.

Better?


Thanks and take care.

Another question is, "Do Wraithblades add anything to the army?"

Against CC you probably do more damage with D-scythe snapfire.

Also what are the C-cannons good for? The only thing which they do better than Scythes, is penetrating AV, and the distortion rule pretty much takes care of that allready.

Well, its horrible.
This army is too slow. I'd drop the Wraithblades and mount the Wraithguard units into Serpents.

Hi all,

Thanks for the critique and comments. My skills as a general are limited at best.

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:Another question is, "Do Wraithblades add anything to the army?"

Against CC you probably do more damage with D-scythe snapfire.

Also what are the C-cannons good for? The only thing which they do better than Scythes, is penetrating AV, and the distortion rule pretty much takes care of that allready.

In this case, Wraithblades are in to keep Spiritseers alive. They are expensive bodyguards. Spiritseers are essential in giving this army a chance to be competitive. I figure Spiritseers will join with Wraithblades and with two Seers there is a good chance to roll Protect. Combining Protect with the Helm it should be difficult to kill them (and slightly less difficult with no Protect) .

Cannon guard are less expensive. Is it worth it tactically to lose a squad of Wraithguard to add D-scythes to the other two squads? At what point is reduced number of models worth more effective weapons? I ask, not to be a , but because I am not particularly good at generalship or competitive army list building.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, its horrible.
This army is too slow. I'd drop the Wraithblades and mount the Wraithguard units into Serpents.

Well, I guess I should not have asked a question when I didn't want to hear such a brutally honest answer.

This is a no transport army (doesn't fit fluff), so Serpents are not an option.
I have no illusions about winning Best General or winning many games. However, it is not fair to my fellow competitors to field a total lame duck of an army. Given the restriction of no transports, flyers, or anything not-Wraith I am attempting to put together a list that is a competitive as possible.

Ideally, when the game is over I want my opponent to say,"I threw everything I had at this army, but I just couldn't kill enough models."
What changes can be made to make the above statement happen?

Thanks and take care

 albinoork wrote:
Hi all,

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:The spiritseers are the only thing giving your army some mobility, definetly keep them.

Zagman wrote:Spiritseers are a must, keep them. Their primaris will be the only thing keeping your firepower mobile. Though I wish you could have found the poitns to get the Spear of Tethuas on one Seer, goes great with Wraithblades.

I don't like the 2x5 Wraithblades with Axe/Shield. I think you are better of with 1x10. The turn your 2x8 Wraithguard into 5,5,6.

Love the stock Wriathknight.

Ok, ok, I get it. Spiritseers will be no less than two.
Should I considered adding a third Spiritseer?

Zagman - Why do like Wraithblades in a unit of 10?

I did make a change to the list. HQ and HS stayed the same, but the troop selection now look like this:

TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Scythe (x6)

TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ Cannon (x5)

TP - Wraithblade w/ Axe and Shield (x6)

This version appears to have a wee bit more flexibility. WriathBlades are now acting like an honor guard or bodyguard.

Better?


Thanks and take care.

If I'm not mistaken your rearranging of troops leaves you under on points, by five models.

I like Wraithblades with swords better, especially Iyanden. 3 S7 attacks a piece is nice, especially with reroll 1's thanks to spiritmark. Fewer than 8 starting models and your enemy can ignore them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, its horrible.
This army is too slow. I'd drop the Wraithblades and mount the Wraithguard units into Serpents.

Horrible is a bit strong.

Yes the army is slow, but thanks to Twilight his army is more mobile than it was. DScyths are effective 15-20" threat, Guards are effective 19-24". The Wraithknight is mobile with range and possibly regen. The Lords gain a boost to mobility thanks to Twilight. The whole army is pretty tough to kill barring some RPS matchups.

With your suggestion he'd have to drop over two full units of Wraith for transports, something he doesn't want to do.

It may not be the most competetive army, but given his requirements he is trying to make the most of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DrunkPhilisoph wrote:
Another question is, "Do Wraithblades add anything to the army?"

Against CC you probably do more damage with D-scythe snapfire.

Also what are the C-cannons good for? The only thing which they do better than Scythes, is penetrating AV, and the distortion rule pretty much takes care of that all ready.

DScyths are much more expensive and require a serpent. And under no Circumstances are Dscythes equal AT to Cannons, Cannons also have some use as AA with spiritmark(Averages one hit for a 6 man squad).

Hi all,

Zagman wrote:

If I'm not mistaken your rearranging of troops leaves you under on points, by five models.

I like Wraithblades with swords better, especially Iyanden. 3 S7 attacks a piece is nice, especially with reroll 1's thanks to spiritmark. Fewer than 8 starting models and your enemy can ignore them.

Yes the army is slow, but thanks to Twilight his army is more mobile than it was. DScyths are effective 15-20" threat, Guards are effective 19-24". The Wraithknight is mobile with range and possibly regen. The Lords gain a boost to mobility thanks to Twilight. The whole army is pretty tough to kill barring some RPS matchups.

D'oh! You're correct.
There should have been four units of 5 Wraithguard.

Is the lack of AP2 in CC something to be concerned about? Or do the extra attacks make-up for no AP2? Best case scenario I won't be getting Wraithguard/blades into CC anyway.

I really, really don't want a game against Dark Eldar.

Thanks and take care

 albinoork wrote:
Hi all,

Zagman wrote:

If I'm not mistaken your rearranging of troops leaves you under on points, by five models.

I like Wraithblades with swords better, especially Iyanden. 3 S7 attacks a piece is nice, especially with reroll 1's thanks to spiritmark. Fewer than 8 starting models and your enemy can ignore them.

Yes the army is slow, but thanks to Twilight his army is more mobile than it was. DScyths are effective 15-20" threat, Guards are effective 19-24". The Wraithknight is mobile with range and possibly regen. The Lords gain a boost to mobility thanks to Twilight. The whole army is pretty tough to kill barring some RPS matchups.

D'oh! You're correct.
There should have been four units of 5 Wraithguard.

Is the lack of AP2 in CC something to be concerned about? Or do the extra attacks make-up for no AP2? Best case scenario I won't be getting Wraithguard/blades into CC anyway.

I really, really don't want a game against Dark Eldar.

Thanks and take care

If you need AP2 in CC, you probably already should have shot them with the Wraithguard. Wraithblades in CC is just fine, just make sure you get the right targets and against any unit with more models than you the extra attacks are critical.

DE aren't as common anymore as their armies are absolutely shredded by the S5/6/7 spam that has been popular of late.

Zagman wrote:
If you need AP2 in CC, you probably already should have shot them with the Wraithguard. Wraithblades in CC is just fine, just make sure you get the right targets and against any unit with more models than you the extra attacks are critical.

DE aren't as common anymore as their armies are absolutely shredded by the S5/6/7 spam that has been popular of late.

Is there any value to 4++?

Fair point regarding Dark Eldar. I only go to Colonial and MechaniCon GTs and the number of DE is way down. Knowing my luck I would play the only two there

 albinoork wrote:

Zagman wrote:
If you need AP2 in CC, you probably already should have shot them with the Wraithguard. Wraithblades in CC is just fine, just make sure you get the right targets and against any unit with more models than you the extra attacks are critical.

DE aren't as common anymore as their armies are absolutely shredded by the S5/6/7 spam that has been popular of late.

Is there any value to 4++?

Fair point regarding Dark Eldar. I only go to Colonial and MechaniCon GTs and the number of DE is way down. Knowing my luck I would play the only two there

4++ is situationaly great, but marginally better than cover in you can get it. Running Iyanden costs Conceal, so there is an argument for taking Axe/Shield. My problem is that what Axe/Shield is good against you already have Wraithguard and a Wraithknight to deal with. Dual Swords allows you to handle large mob style units, something only your DScythes are good at. Use the Knight to grant them cover turn one, hope for a cover save turn 2, assault turn 3. Also, running Iyanded you are 3 attacks at S7/I4 on the charge vs 2 at S8/I1. After charge its 2 attacks at S6/I4 vs S7/I1. Just don't charge TEQ units with the blades if you can help it.

Zagman wrote:

4++ is situationaly great, but marginally better than cover in you can get it. Running Iyanden costs Conceal, so there is an argument for taking Axe/Shield. My problem is that what Axe/Shield is good against you already have Wraithguard and a Wraithknight to deal with. Dual Swords allows you to handle large mob style units, something only your DScythes are good at. Use the Knight to grant them cover turn one, hope for a cover save turn 2, assault turn 3. Also, running Iyanded you are 3 attacks at S7/I4 on the charge vs 2 at S8/I1. After charge its 3 attacks at S6/I4 vs S7/I1. Just don't charge TEQ units with the blades if you can help it.

This is why I posted!

Thanks, your reasoning is very .... reasonable.

Here is the revised version:

HQ - Spiritseer w/ Wraithforge Stone, guardian Helm of Xellethon
HQ - Spiritseer - Stock

TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Cannon (x5)
TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Cannon (x5)

TP - Wraithguard w/ D-Scythe (x7)

TP - Wraithblade w/ Swords (x10)

HS - Wraithlord w/ Glaive, Scatter Laser, Brightlance
HS - Wraithlord w/ Glaive, Scatter Laser, Brightlance

HS - Wraithknight - Stock

Total points - 1849

Looks like Spiritseers can run with D-Scythe Wraithguard. The army will line up and sprint across the board to wreck some havoc.

Better?


Thanks and take care

Looks better, but run the Helm spiritseer with the Wriathblades, run the other with the DScythes, or distribute your primary targets by putting him witha unit of Guard.

Also, don't forget to use the Wraithlords for granting cover to the rest of you Wraithguards/blades. And remember, a MC with just a toe in Area Terrain has cover, so for the Lords and Knight you can get them cover fairly easily depending on the board.