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Hey Dakka people. I hate to bring up this conversation AGAIN but I am not satisfied with the answers I received the last time I asked this question. My last attempt to find some consensus on the matter was met with several difference of opinions and links to a previous thread (which was filled with several difference of opinions). I am still looking for a concrete answer on what actually constitutes a Demonic Gift in the 6th edition. I've looked through the Demon codex and I've read through the wording on Dark Excommunication several times but for the life of me cannot see anything that can be agreed upon by an opponent that would count as a Demonic Gift. This weekend I will be going to a very large Grand Tournament with my Grey Knights and the chances of playing a Demon player will be very good. I want to be able to definitively state what is, in fact, a Demonic Gift that I can nullify. Again, I'm sorry if you believe this has been answered but there sure as hell isn't an FAQ on the subject and I'm almost of the opinion that the power doesn't work AT ALL in the 6th edition. Thoughts?

Have a look at what the 'Wargear' section is called in the Chaos Daemons Codex. It seems pretty clear to me.

Your best bet is to ask the TO. The problem lies in the different edition codex for each. Once they do Grey Knights, Im sure it will be cleared up.

As both a Daemon and a GK player, I believe these can be affected by Dark Excom:
Ranged Weapons
Melee Weapons
Daemonic Attributes
Icons and Instruments
Hellforged Artefacts
Daemonic Rewards
Daemonic Loci
Daemon Psychic Powers

This list comes from the Table of Contents in the hardback Daemon Codex. The Heading is "Daemonic Gifts," and all the listed categories are sub-headings under that.
The things that remain, that cannot be banished, are:
Daemonic Alignment (Daemon of X, includes "Daemon" USR)
Daemonic Instability
Warlord Trait
Statline characteristics
A few other miscellaneous special rules, like Screamers' "Slashing Attack" and "Lamprey Bite," and Changeling's "Formless Horror."

Some important questions to ask the TO:
1) While the Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh powers are listed under "Gifts," BRB powers are not, and the Special Rule "Psyker" is a Special Rule, not a Gift. Can I banish the ability to cast powers on a model, or only the ability to cast CERTAIN powers (ie. the Daemonic disciplines)? If I can banish all powers, and the model has (for example) Iron Arm cast on himself, does the Dark Excom get rid of the +D3 bonus that is already applied? Does the 4++ from Forewarning (Divination) disappear? (Since Dark Excom only gets rid of gifts during the Assault phase, this question really only affects BRB blessings and the Nurgle blessing. I am of the opinion that Daemon disciplines would be affected, but not BRB powers.)
2) If a Daemon unit has the Greater Locus of Change, and I cast Dark Excom, is its strength characteristic of the unit reverted back to normal, or does it keep the D6 result rolled at the beginning of the turn?
3) YOU WILL DEFINITELY RUN INTO THIS ONE: If a Daemon unit has its Invuln changed by the Grimoire of True Names, is the +2/-1 bonus removed during that assault phase? (It was applied in the Daemon's turn, and lasts a full game turn.)

Helforged Artefacts can't be. Special Characters have 2 separate section of wargear, 1 for Hellforged 1 for Gifts.

Steeds can't be ignored as per GK FaQ

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Helforged Artefacts can't be. Special Characters have 2 separate section of wargear, 1 for Hellforged 1 for Gifts.

Hellforged Artifacts are listed under Daemonic Gifts in the Codex. What brings you to the conclusion you can ignore them? Here are some pictures of the digital and the print daemon codex.





Pretty clear to me that everything listed on these pages here in fact are daemonic gifts. That definitely includes hellforge artifatcts. Steeds excluded per faq.

What leads me to believe that is the entries for special characters, Hellforged Artefacts and Gifts are listed seperately

But their rules are still listed in the chapter of the book that is called "Daemonic Gifts". Agreed?

Yes, some of them are. However, some of them aren't (Special Character Artefacts) Using that logic, Non-Spec Character Artefacts can be Excommed but not Spec Character ones.


Needs FaQ.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:



Needs FaQ.

Until then everything in the codex that is in said chapter is a daemonic gift and can be excommed. That includes hellforged artifacts and excludes already faqed stuff like the steeds.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I did ask the TO and he ruled on all the items and powers listed under the Table of Contents. Demons are really heavy in my area and I just know this is going to be coming up like crazy. I really don't know why GW hasn't FAQ'd it.

 Mywik wrote:
But their rules are still listed in the chapter of the book that is called "Daemonic Gifts". Agreed?

I'm not sure whether Matt.Kingsley has it right. There are four Hellforged Artefacts that are listed under the Heading "Daemonic Gifts." However, the Artefacts that come with Special Characters, like Fateweaver's "Staff of Tomorrow," are in a small inset on his fluff page, and under the bullet point "Hellforged Artefact" in the list building section. Unnamed daemons, as pointed out, have a bullet called "Daemonic Gifts," while unique characters do not. But the "default" Artefacts (Grimoire, Portalglyph, etc) ARE definitely Gifts.

Agree with the need for a FAQ, at least for this particular issue.

And @Kimchi: what did he say about a pre-existing Iron Arm buff?

if the staff for instance is a bullet point headed with the term deamonic gift it aka hell forged etc is excommunicatable.

the reason GW haven't FAQ'd this is because it is nice and clear in the rules what comes under the term deamonic gift.

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Thanks for the responses, guys. I did ask the TO and he ruled on all the items and powers listed under the Table of Contents. Demons are really heavy in my area and I just know this is going to be coming up like crazy. I really don't know why GW hasn't FAQ'd it.

They probably haven't FAQ'd it because its not super contentious.

its hard to argue with what that page says are Daemonic Gifts.

So aside from the FAQ saying Steeds are not effected everything else is.

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Thanks for the responses, guys. I did ask the TO and he ruled on all the items and powers listed under the Table of Contents. Demons are really heavy in my area and I just know this is going to be coming up like crazy. I really don't know why GW hasn't FAQ'd it.

We are talking about Game Workshops, right?

I suspect with the new electronic books, FAQ's will be a thing of the past as each book goes electronic.. Look how quickly they have already made changes to the new Tau supplment..