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My club is planning a Journeyman League for September and I would like some help and direction expanding on what I have.

So far I have:

- pLylyth
- 1 Carnivean
- 4 Shredders
- 5 Ogrun Warspears

I plan on getting the Warspear Cheiftan UA and probably a Shepard. Other then that, I'm stumped.
I know there's no 'Auto-includes' or broken cheesiness but any direction would be of help.

Yeah, that's pretty rough. You already have a ton of beasts, especially for Lylyth, so it's hard to suggest more. On the other hand, Ravagores are incredibly good, and Seraphs are pretty nice with Lylyth.

The Chieftain UA is a huge deal, and certainly the first thing I'd pick up. The shepherd is also great, though your beasts tend to be pretty close to the front, which makes things harder.

If you've been having any difficulty knocking out armor, get a Ravagore and/or a Scythian. I'll suggest Ravagore though, because they do so many things so well.

If you think you're going to be seeing a lot more infantry, spell martyrs might be wise, so you have an easy way to extend eruption of spines. Alternately, you could just poke your own beasts at range and use them as jury-rigged nodes. Striders are pretty useful in general, so they're not a bad purchase, and Hexhunters can get a /lot/ of work done on feat turn.

The Ravagore, Scythian and Seraph look solid. Worried about running too many beasts though. I've just remembered the Forsaken so might have that chase one. Perhaps a ranged beast to keep her out of the firing line?

How are the light beasts?

If you're picking up a shepherd, then you don't need to worry about overloading on beasts when you pick up a Ravagore. It keeps far enough back that you can keep the shepherd pretty safe, and remove all that fury each turn. With the Seraph it's a bit riskier, and with the Scythian it's quite a bit riskier.

I lean towards the Ravagore because it's something you'll be using in most lists once you move beyond this journeyman league. It also is pretty damn effective with Lylyth. The Scythian is another great beast, but doesn't mesh up /quite/ as well with Lylyth. The Seraph is pretty damn good with Lylyth, but she supports it uniquely, and you won't see it so often with other casters.

I find the light beasts to be utility pieces normally. Harriers are great for sniping out solos, and stingers are good one-shot missiles, but are pretty corner-case (you /need/ to attack living things with them to get value, and their spray is pretty hard to use.) They are most often acquired with a spawning vessel. Outside the spawning vessel, you'll almost always want a single shredder to make use of its /incredible/ animus. For the rest of them, you tend to want to have a very specific role in mind. Usually there're better things to spend the points on.

I've also just started Legion myself and have purchased a few items

Hordes 2 Player Boxset
Forsaken
Heavy Warbeast Box
Warspear Chieftan

which gives me the following esculation from 15 points (for a league)

Lylyth
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Carnivean
Forsaken

25 Points
Lylyth
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Carnivean
Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Warspear Chieftan
Forsaken

35 points
Lylyth
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Shredder
Carnivean
Ravagore
Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Warspear Chieftan
Forsaken

I know I have too many shredders and am currently looking at swapping 2 of them out for something (shepherd/spawning vessal maybe or different light warbeasts such as stingers/harriers or even a raek)

I have an almost identical list. I can't swap out any of the original battlebox but a Raek in your list might go down well.

For 50 points I was thinking:

- pLylyth
- 4 Shredders
- Carnivean
- Ravagore
- Nyss Striders (Leader and 5 Grunts) + Musician UA
- Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) + UA
- Forsaken
- Shepard
- Incubus

How does that look?

Very similar to my plans (although i know I'll be facing off against a large amount of infantry so the Vessal plays a part in my list from 25/35 upwards)

Lylyth
Shredder
Shredder
Carnivean
Ravagore
Blighted Nyss Raptors (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Warspear Chieftan
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Annyssa Ryvaal, Talon of Everblight
Blighted Nyss Shepherd
Blighted Nyss Shepherd
The Forsaken

Has anyone played with with an Incubus unit? Are they any good?

 CrabSlap wrote:
Has anyone played with with an Incubus unit? Are they any good?

I've been wondering about these myself. They look interesting, at least.

Was thinking about putting them on the striders. If they die, it'll probably be to melee. Cue surprise chest-bursters!

Incubi would be great if you could purchase them 1 for 1. Having to take a full set of 5 makes them much more awkward to fit in a list. I think these days incubi see more use as models brought into play by the afflictor or Kallus.

The models are beautiful and they do not under-perform point for point but I prefer to not spend points on things that require enemy action to even get on the table. They will know your list and know the striders are the only option as hosts so a good opponent can play around that. I like incubi overall but I can almost always think of a more reliable use of 5 points in legion.

From my experience paying the points for incubi hamper you army. That 5 points you don't have on the board gives up a lot of real estate.

Kallus and the afflictors are the way to go if you want to have incubi.

I think I (ashamedly) still have a 40k mentality where 5 points seems like nothing in actuality that's 10% of the army!

What would be a better use of those 5 points? (Baring in mind the only things I MUST take are 4 shredders and a Carnivean).

Uhh... what is the list right now, then? Are you going from the battlebox to the battlebox +5, or do you already have striders and such?

I'm aiming towards:

- pLylyth
- 4 Shredders
- Carnivean
- Ravagore
- Nyss Striders (Leader and 5 Grunts) + Musician UA
- Ogrun Warspears (Leader and 4 Grunts) + UA
- Forsaken
- Shepard

Adds up to 45 points.

The only things I've actually got are the Battle box, Warspears and Shepard. The list is still flexible

The Angelius is a good warbeast to look at as well. a high pow armor piercing attack can really put some hurt on an enemy heavy, plus it can't be knocked down and its fast.

A Scythean is also a good choice. Reach, high pow, and its chain attack is like a free thresher.

Yeah, the shredders really hamstring you. It's just so much fury for such weak attacks- you'd be much better served turning three of them and some of those extra points into a Scythian, then throwing in some solo or another.

That being said, with parasite from Lylyth, you don't /need/ more anti-armor, so that's not so bad. You're also pretty good on the anti-infantry front, so again, not too bad.

I'd lean towards a cheap infantry unit to jam, like legionaries, and then get rid of the forsaken, perhaps bumping it down to shepherd status. That being said, it's pretty rough overall... you have a few options available that're pretty good. Considering it's a journeyman league, can't you just wait, see how the meta shakes out, then adapt? If there is a ton of armor, lean towards anti-armor and jamming, if there's a ton of infantry, etc etc etc. That way you can get a better feel for the weaknesses of your current list, and react appropriately.

A minimum unit of hex hunters might be the best fit for the five remaining points in your list given your restrictions. Normally one would find it more appealing to run the full unit but the minimum unit still has solid infantry-clearing value. They are also a unit that works with or without their officer equally well.

I think the Hex Hunters are the way to go, if not just for some magical weapons.

Was also looking at a Teraph or Naga for the same points. Anyone had experience with those?

I'm starting to feel pretty weighed down by the 4 Shredders

Here's the list at each stage.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/545035.page