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I know that everyone is probably conflicted about this topic... But I was reviewing the nice prices for the Lizardmen release and just...Wow.

I have been blown away over the last year+ of WHFB releases as the price tag has slowly moved upward, but $85 a kit is my threshold, I fear. When I started playing warhammer as a kid I never would have imagined spending $25 for a single, plastic, miniature, nonetheless $85 for a plastic dinosaur kit...

My fiancé saw the $1600 lizardman army set on the website and essentially told me that she would leave me if I spent that much money on warhammer at one go... Not that I was considering it or that she has an issue with my playing/ collecting miniatures, but I can not really blame her. That's a mortgage payment or the price of a vacation!

My "boo-hooing" aside, I am curious about where Games Workshop will go in future additions. Why have they continued to increase the price tag so dramatically for years? Will they price their costumers out of the market at some point? Will we ever learn and stop supporting a company who manipulates prices for no conceivable reason?


PS the "New Molds" and "extra bits" arguments of days passed are ridiculous in my opinion, the cost of producing new plastic molds is astronomically lower than the elevated price increase they place on new releases, wave after wave.

Sigh... Rant over, proceed to delete this, attack me for complaining, or point out that I do not have to play/ purchase this game or its products...

Hermit

I was looking through the new LM stuff, and it seems at its face pretty in line with the rest of Warhammer Fantasy. Ignoring the stupid 1 click bundles with no built in saving... aside from the Carnosaur clocking in at 85 dollars everything seems pretty in line with older model lines.

- Terradon's clock in at .25 cents more per model than an equivalent number of Bretonnian Pegasus Knights, and are the same price as War Hawk Riders

- The Kroxigor are 5 dollars more than a Box of River Trolls, but are still an good deal when you consider most Trolls are individual models for around 22 dollars.

- The Stegadon costs as much as the Arachnorok Spider. Which is reasonable considering the similarities between the two- big monster with a howdah crew, although I think the Spider is a better kit. The prices are also in line with High Elves who pay 60 for the new Birds, although the Prince on Dragon seems a much better bargain than the Carnosaur. The prices are also inline with slightly older stuff like Vampire counts (62 dollars for Mortis Engine, and 57 dollar Terrorgheist), and cheaper than Dark Elves (54 dollar Dragon, and 69! for a Hydra). Also Note Skaven pay around 60 for the Screaming Bell and Helpit Abomination- putting them squarely in line as well.

- Also note that the Cold one Riders cost exactly as much as Empire or Bretonnia Knights (8 for 35), and the Saurus and Skinks are right in line with other core choices as well.

I won't argue that the Carnosaur seems like a rip off at first glance, and the one click bundels are misleading and have terrible sticker shock, and the limited Edition Rulebook has people paying 40 dollars for a dust jacket. BUT overall the release is very much in line with the prices of existing lines, even older stuff like Dark Elves, Skaven, Bretonnia and Wood Elves. And there are still built in savings in the battle force (Its just misleading that they bury the built in savings battleforce inside the no savings 1 click bundels). Warhammer has gotten more expensive, and there have been price hikes. But its not just on new releases, and buying intelligently has always been an important skill for the gamer on a budget.

 akaean wrote:
I was looking through the new LM stuff, and it seems at its face pretty in line with the rest of Warhammer Fantasy. Ignoring the stupid 1 click bundles with no built in saving... aside from the Carnosaur clocking in at 85 dollars everything seems pretty in line with older model lines.

- Terradon's clock in at .25 cents more per model than an equivalent number of Bretonnian Pegasus Knights, and are the same price as War Hawk Riders

- The Kroxigor are 5 dollars more than a Box of River Trolls, but are still an good deal when you consider most Trolls are individual models for around 22 dollars.

- The Stegadon costs as much as the Arachnorok Spider. Which is reasonable considering the similarities between the two- big monster with a howdah crew, although I think the Spider is a better kit. The prices are also in line with High Elves who pay 60 for the new Birds, although the Prince on Dragon seems a much better bargain than the Carnosaur. The prices are also inline with slightly older stuff like Vampire counts (62 dollars for Mortis Engine, and 57 dollar Terrorgheist), and cheaper than Dark Elves (54 dollar Dragon, and 69! for a Hydra). Also Note Skaven pay around 60 for the Screaming Bell and Helpit Abomination- putting them squarely in line as well.

- Also note that the Cold one Riders cost exactly as much as Empire or Bretonnia Knights (8 for 35), and the Saurus and Skinks are right in line with other core choices as well.

I won't argue that the Carnosaur seems like a rip off at first glance, and the one click bundels are misleading and have terrible sticker shock, and the limited Edition Rulebook has people paying 40 dollars for a dust jacket. BUT overall the release is very much in line with the prices of existing lines, even older stuff like Dark Elves, Skaven, Bretonnia and Wood Elves. And there are still built in savings in the battle force (Its just misleading that they bury the built in savings battleforce inside the no savings 1 click bundels). Warhammer has gotten more expensive, and there have been price hikes. But its not just on new releases, and buying intelligently has always been an important skill for the gamer on a budget.

This is very well said, if you're on a budget try ebay, barter town, dakka swap shop lots of other options.

(Insert Matt Ward Hate)

I believe the carnosaur kit does come with a hero on foot for either variant you don't use which is cool IMO. Certinaly not the value of the Burning chariot. (Chariot+3 horrors+ Herald)

One-click bundles are gak without a discount.

As nice as the stuff is, I can't justify spending that much. I'll go to the toy store and get one each of the (relatively) expensive Allosaur and Spinosaur toys (as opposed to the $1 toys)... and have enough money left out of the $85 to get a trio of Pterosaurs as well.

GW needs to remember, they're not just competing with other miniature makers. There are other sources of 'miniatures' other than miniature manufacturers. And their lack of volume is 100% related to their dramatic increase in prices.

But that's fine with me if they don't. Sooner or later they're going to price themselves out of the miniature industry entirely, and at that point perhaps they'll start seriously trying to make WFB a GOOD game, and not a sales machine for their minis.

 Vulcan wrote:
As nice as the stuff is, I can't justify spending that much. I'll go to the toy store and get one each of the (relatively) expensive Allosaur and Spinosaur toys (as opposed to the $1 toys)... and have enough money left out of the $85 to get a trio of Pterosaurs as well.

This is an extremely good point, thank you a lot ofr bringing it up. At first glance, people just start to smile and think "lol wtf" when they hear this, but that's because they've never seen such conversions. Child toys make for some really great conversions at a very low price point - just check this Giant out:



It looks extremely good and fits the army much, much better than the GW one. Price? ~3-5€ per piece. Yep. It just takes time to convert, but believe, it is worth the effort. Using two of those myself in fun games

 Vulcan wrote:
And their lack of volume is 100% related to their dramatic increase in prices.

Please post their volumes vs. past volumes so we can evaluate this for ourselves.

Or are you just making something up on the internet?


As for prices, GW, as the market leader (and market creator), is basically paying the advertising and printing and much of the employment costs of its competitors. Because the competitors exist because there is a WHFB and 40K. If there was no GW a whole lot less people would be interested in fake TK chariots or Jaberslythes. It's like, you can make a phone game and sell it for $0.99 online. And you can do that because the phone exists and the operating system exists and the place to buy your game exists and your only expenses are basically yourself and whatever profit you want to make. But no matter how good your game is, it's silly to think that if iPhone/Android went out of business tomorrow--because they're too expensive--you would simply take it over so you could continue your game sales. You would need the same infrastructure they had and then you'd have expensive phones again.

The answer is to not buy GW minis! Fantasy has such a wide amount of suppliers and is so generic that you find anything elsewhere.

Of course, this is why GW now produces new "unique" units that only they sell, but do you REALLY need to use them?

GW made a mistake when they killed off their tournament circuit. That was the mechanism that kept people from trying to include non gw stuff into their armies.

Right now, unless you are in some weird GW event, you can use whatever models you want so long as they are clear. I have a handful of non gw stuff in my bret army and some conversions in my elf army.

My buddy and I have also been casting gw models.

We made 40 white lions, 24 lead belchers, and 18 mournfang in ~2 hours. Cost us about $30.

Painted up and with some gw bits stuck to them, you would never know.

DukeRustfield wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
And their lack of volume is 100% related to their dramatic increase in prices.

Please post their volumes vs. past volumes so we can evaluate this for ourselves.

Or are you just making something up on the internet?


As for prices, GW, as the market leader (and market creator), is basically paying the advertising and printing and much of the employment costs of its competitors. Because the competitors exist because there is a WHFB and 40K. If there was no GW a whole lot less people would be interested in fake TK chariots or Jaberslythes. It's like, you can make a phone game and sell it for $0.99 online. And you can do that because the phone exists and the operating system exists and the place to buy your game exists and your only expenses are basically yourself and whatever profit you want to make. But no matter how good your game is, it's silly to think that if iPhone/Android went out of business tomorrow--because they're too expensive--you would simply take it over so you could continue your game sales. You would need the same infrastructure they had and then you'd have expensive phones again.

That's actually posted in another thread about GW financials and appears to be an accurate if general statement.

Eh, it's a lot of money for a plastic dinosaur, but you have to face facts: GW prices are expensive and will only continue to rise. If you can't deal with it, and can't put in time/effort/research/ingenuity to finding ways round the prices, then WHFB/40k isn't for you.

 agnosto wrote:
That's actually posted in another thread about GW financials and appears to be an accurate if general statement.

Well, their financials have risen year-on-year for like the last 4 or so years. That is from their required by law, not just internet nonsense, financial statements. Do a google search and go to any investor site. It will break out all their expenses and revenue.

DukeRustfield wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
That's actually posted in another thread about GW financials and appears to be an accurate if general statement.

Well, their financials have risen year-on-year for like the last 4 or so years. That is from their required by law, not just internet nonsense, financial statements. Do a google search and go to any investor site. It will break out all their expenses and revenue.

Yes, I'm an actual stockholder and I read the financials when they come out. Profit was not the point of the person's post that you took issue with; it was volume of sales which is actually stagnant or in slight decline. I recommend you heed your own advice and read.

You realize a public company cares ONLY about earnings per share. Which has increased. If they made models cost $0.01 per box, their volume would increase vastly, but they would go out of business. Volume doesn't matter.

In fact because the game is mature, they probably realized they had to increase costs of individual models to maintain the same profits. Because there are less people buying entire new armies.

It's not like Coke where you're buying a new six pack every week. Or even a new car that you trade in after a few years. You can have an army and never ever upgrade it. They aren't collecting royalties on those figures sitting on your shelf. So only new models and new players would constitute purchases.

You might not like it, but their profits have risen. So the strategy has been successful for years.

While the big, shiny center-piece kits might be getting rather insane in price, consider that a lot of those new plastic monstrous beast/cav unit boxes are actually making the models cheaper...

Those new Terradon/Ripperdactyls for example, used to be IIRC $35(CAN) a pop for the old metal guys that needed to be pinned out the wazoo in order to keep them together!
Now we're getting the choice to build one of two units & 3 models for only $70(CAN) - a $5 savings per miniature.

I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

Unit fillers are your BFF!

 agnosto wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
And their lack of volume is 100% related to their dramatic increase in prices.

Please post their volumes vs. past volumes so we can evaluate this for ourselves.

Or are you just making something up on the internet?


As for prices, GW, as the market leader (and market creator), is basically paying the advertising and printing and much of the employment costs of its competitors. Because the competitors exist because there is a WHFB and 40K. If there was no GW a whole lot less people would be interested in fake TK chariots or Jaberslythes. It's like, you can make a phone game and sell it for $0.99 online. And you can do that because the phone exists and the operating system exists and the place to buy your game exists and your only expenses are basically yourself and whatever profit you want to make. But no matter how good your game is, it's silly to think that if iPhone/Android went out of business tomorrow--because they're too expensive--you would simply take it over so you could continue your game sales. You would need the same infrastructure they had and then you'd have expensive phones again.

That's actually posted in another thread about GW financials and appears to be an accurate if general statement.

This is similar to the quoted post...
Marketing is highly complex and based on so many factors that I know I don't have the time to comprehend. But there are many things that attribute to high prices that aren't always directly related to the corporate empires and the stockholders.
Yes they want to make more money and what business doesn't..
But what effects have we, as consumers, had in driving the prices up?
How many actively seek discount sellers and E-bay deals?
How many buy finecast and forgeworld from the Russian federation?
How many only buy second hand?
GW still foots the bill for artists, original sculpt, packaging, more artwork and many other things and has a difficult product to maintain. The fact that they have remained successful after 25 years is saying something
Global trade adds it's own challenges as far as materials, import/export fees, copyright, ip's..so much to look at.
and even then..
If we didn't have people selling GW at discount prices the prices would just be wgat they were and would we complain as much?..I doubt it.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

Unit fillers are your BFF!

Unfortunately rank and file has approached costs that mean to be even marginally palateable, you need more filler bases than actual models.

 -Loki- wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

Unit fillers are your BFF!

Unfortunately rank and file has approached costs that mean to be even marginally palateable, you need more filler bases than actual models.

I've seen a number of VC Skellies unit built using only 15-20 actual skellies mind you... 10 guys at most for the front 2 ranks, then sprinkled 1-2 per 40mm base which can be used to fill-out another 8 'filler' skellies, then a back rank.
A lot of the filler bases I've seen also tend to use the extra torsos & head from the kit to build skellies rising out of the ground, which can add 3-4 more per box.

I agree that the current 10-man Core sets make Fantasy really cost prohibitive, but VC's at least have some decent trick around it.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

Unit fillers are your BFF!

Unfortunately rank and file has approached costs that mean to be even marginally palateable, you need more filler bases than actual models.

I've seen a number of VC Skellies unit built using only 15-20 actual skellies mind you... 10 guys at most for the front 2 ranks, then sprinkled 1-2 per 40mm base which can be used to fill-out another 8 'filler' skellies, then a back rank.
A lot of the filler bases I've seen also tend to use the extra torsos & head from the kit to build skellies rising out of the ground, which can add 3-4 more per box.

I agree that the current 10-man Core sets make Fantasy really cost prohibitive, but VC's at least have some decent trick around it.

Throw an exhumed grave on a 40mm base and you have filler that looks fantastic. VC truly have some easy filler.
Skaven can fill with some bases with only a normal rat or two on it, but it does take away from the horde feel that you expect from Skaven.

At least Skaven have IoB to level off their costs, you can get 20 on ebay for less than $20 CDN if you're lucky.

I agree the big kits are crazy pricey, but GW sets their retail high partially because they have to set an MSRP for their dealers, many of whom are still selling online at 30-40% less than this.

Seriously, I haven't bought a single kit for my last 4 armies from GW, in fact since I came back to the hobby 4 years ago I haven't bought a single thing from their store, just through ebay, trades and online dealers and haven't really had a gripe about the price of anything.

DukeRustfield wrote:
You realize a public company cares ONLY about earnings per share. Which has increased. If they made models cost $0.01 per box, their volume would increase vastly, but they would go out of business. Volume doesn't matter.

In fact because the game is mature, they probably realized they had to increase costs of individual models to maintain the same profits. Because there are less people buying entire new armies.

It's not like Coke where you're buying a new six pack every week. Or even a new car that you trade in after a few years. You can have an army and never ever upgrade it. They aren't collecting royalties on those figures sitting on your shelf. So only new models and new players would constitute purchases.

You might not like it, but their profits have risen. So the strategy has been successful for years.

Yes and I also realize that this was not the post you originally responded to. I know how marketing and corporate economics works to an extent (mainly because I've learned due to investments I've made over the years). What you are contesting has no bearing on the factual statement that the original poster made in that actual volume of kits sold has decreased. While there are numerous factors involved here, the statement is true ( though not a complete picture nor reflective of GWs bottom line).

Your later statements are anecdotal at best because GW has stated that their preferred audience are young buyers who don't stay in the hobby long (churn and burn). The mature market is comprised of veteran players who have been slapped in the face (metaphorically) by GW over the years.

As for inventory. If you actually read the financials, you'll see that GW has maintained less inventory year on year. While a good idea in some regards, as you seem to already understand, it can hurt the company as well as was seen with the Tau release and other out of stock issues over the past year. When GW maintained higher levels of inventory, these issues were less frequent.

Read back. I own GW stock. I love that their profile has risen, that doesn't t mean that I blindly love the company and think every negative statement is made by some disaffected 12 year old. My stock value has more than doubled since I bout GW stock and I supplement my gaming budget with the dividend payments. Though I no longer am able to buy complete armies with each dividend payout due to price increases outstripping dividend checks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Purifier wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't mind paying more for a big centerpeice kit (for example, I love the Terrorgheist and Coven Throne, and while I got both in the megaforce, would have bought them seperately if I had to without complaint). They're big, nicely detailed, and generally look pretty fantastic. Big kits are where GW really shines. Plus you generally only end up buying, at most, two due to Rare limitations.

My big gripe is infantry costs. They are what kills WHFB army prices. $41au for 10 skeletons you need in blocks of 50 or more is just ridiculous.

Unit fillers are your BFF!

Unfortunately rank and file has approached costs that mean to be even marginally palateable, you need more filler bases than actual models.

I've seen a number of VC Skellies unit built using only 15-20 actual skellies mind you... 10 guys at most for the front 2 ranks, then sprinkled 1-2 per 40mm base which can be used to fill-out another 8 'filler' skellies, then a back rank.
A lot of the filler bases I've seen also tend to use the extra torsos & head from the kit to build skellies rising out of the ground, which can add 3-4 more per box.

I agree that the current 10-man Core sets make Fantasy really cost prohibitive, but VC's at least have some decent trick around it.

Throw an exhumed grave on a 40mm base and you have filler that looks fantastic. VC truly have some easy filler.
Skaven can fill with some bases with only a normal rat or two on it, but it does take away from the horde feel that you expect from Skaven.

I've seen some gorgeous beastmen filler using terrain on large bases that made it look like the unit was boiling out of a cave or down a hill.

Dumb question:

Tetto'eko seemed a little steep at $50 US, but I noticed the Slann are priced the same. Have Slann been about this price for a long time?

 More Dakka wrote:

I agree the big kits are crazy pricey, but GW sets their retail high partially because they have to set an MSRP for their dealers, many of whom are still selling online at 30-40% less than this..

This is a good point. Although that kit may be £50 or whatever, that means greater savings on the 20% or whatever off you can get easily from other independent retailers.

Some good points have been made about maintaining profits as GW largely sells to a fixed market of consumers, but I couldn't imagine getting in to the hobby at this point, even if I were really interested.

As a business they should always be trying to draw in more players, not just focusing on existing ones.

A single kit should not cost more than the biggest competition for young boys attention, video games, which sit around $60.

What was said about infantry is definitely a big problem for some armies and it forces all of us to choose between minimal big kits or massed amounts of infantry for our (at least my) miniature budget.

Also, I have been at this hobby for a long time and quit and come back on several occasions as I feel many players have, can't stand the "just don't play" arguments.

Pervertdhermit wrote:
Some good points have been made about maintaining profits as GW largely sells to a fixed market of consumers, but I couldn't imagine getting in to the hobby at this point, even if I were really interested.

As a business they should always be trying to draw in more players, not just focusing on existing ones.

A single kit should not cost more than the biggest competition for young boys attention, video games, which sit around $60.

What was said about infantry is definitely a big problem for some armies and it forces all of us to choose between minimal big kits or massed amounts of infantry for our (at least my) miniature budget.

Also, I have been at this hobby for a long time and quit and come back on several occasions as I feel many players have, can't stand the "just don't play" arguments.

On the contrary though, GW's idea of a new player is lower down the teenage years, and possibly below. At that sort of age, most kids won't have a good perception of money. They won't be earning very much themselves (just a bit of pocket money, most likely) so models will become something, like video games, that their parents have to buy them for birthdays/Christmas/being a good boy. And the parents will buy them because it's what their kids ask for, or because they think it's what they expect to pay for such a thing, or because they think it's worth it to keep their kids entertained for a while.

 agnosto wrote:
What you are contesting has no bearing on the factual statement that the original poster made in that actual volume of kits sold has decreased.

Irrelevant. There is an old joke in the business world that, "we lose 5 cents on every one we sell, but we make up for it in volume."

If GW can make a billion dollars selling one model they are totally happy to do that if it's sustainable. HOW they do it, does not matter. If they sell one head at a time their volume might be massive. Does not matter. Only earnings per share. VW sells a lot of cheap cars. BMW sells not as many expensive cars.

"mature market" doesn't mean old people. It means it's mature in that it exists and has existed. People who are posting here 90-something% have armies already. That means mature. That means they have to get revenue from them in a different way than selling an entire army because they already have it. Reissuing army books/new models/etc. When a brand new game/product/thing comes out, it's new; then established; then mature; then...antiquated. DvDs are mature. Online streaming is established, on the new side. Google glass is brand new. VHS is antiquated.

As for inventory. If you actually read the financials, you'll see that GW has maintained less inventory year on year.

Every company wants to maintain less inventory. You pay for inventory. Because it requires a warehouse(s). It requires guards. It requires electricity and refridgeration and whatever. It requires shipping it to and from. That's thousands/millions of deliveries before it actually gets anywhere to be purchased. That's trucks or trains or airplanes or boats. The longer your store stuff, the less your profit (unless you get some huge bulk discount, in which case they fight it out over time). I was reading up on Toyota and they had their product stream so tight they would literally maintain a 3 hour supply of inventory. That meant they got continuous shipments of parts from suppliers to keep the assembly lines going and they had no warehouses. This was brought up because the tsunami messed up the roads (duh) and because they had no inventory, they shut down until they could figure a way to route around it. But you may remember there was a Japanese car shortage at that time and that's the reason. In most cases, it allows you to make your cars even cheaper than your competitors, but if a tsunami hits, well, you're screwed.

ComTrav wrote:
Dumb question:

Tetto'eko seemed a little steep at $50 US, but I noticed the Slann are priced the same. Have Slann been about this price for a long time?

Yup. They were big lumps of pewter for ages, and now they're big lumps of resin, and they've always been expensive.


One comment I'd make about the carnosaur kit... i think its expensive, yes. But compare it to the finecast it's replacing. The Kroq-Gar kit used to be higher, much more limited, and was in fact quite a bit smaller. Add to that the fact that it was an absolute bitch to work with in metal, and one of the worst examples of failcast.... I think this is overall quite positive, even if the old carnosaur looked better IMO.

DukeRustfield wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
What you are contesting has no bearing on the factual statement that the original poster made in that actual volume of kits sold has decreased.

Irrelevant. There is an old joke in the business world that, "we lose 5 cents on every one we sell, but we make up for it in volume."

If GW can make a billion dollars selling one model they are totally happy to do that if it's sustainable. HOW they do it, does not matter. If they sell one head at a time their volume might be massive. Does not matter. Only earnings per share. VW sells a lot of cheap cars. BMW sells not as many expensive cars.

"mature market" doesn't mean old people. It means it's mature in that it exists and has existed. People who are posting here 90-something% have armies already. That means mature. That means they have to get revenue from them in a different way than selling an entire army because they already have it. Reissuing army books/new models/etc. When a brand new game/product/thing comes out, it's new; then established; then mature; then...antiquated. DvDs are mature. Online streaming is established, on the new side. Google glass is brand new. VHS is antiquated.

As for inventory. If you actually read the financials, you'll see that GW has maintained less inventory year on year.

Every company wants to maintain less inventory. You pay for inventory. Because it requires a warehouse(s). It requires guards. It requires electricity and refridgeration and whatever. It requires shipping it to and from. That's thousands/millions of deliveries before it actually gets anywhere to be purchased. That's trucks or trains or airplanes or boats. The longer your store stuff, the less your profit (unless you get some huge bulk discount, in which case they fight it out over time). I was reading up on Toyota and they had their product stream so tight they would literally maintain a 3 hour supply of inventory. That meant they got continuous shipments of parts from suppliers to keep the assembly lines going and they had no warehouses. This was brought up because the tsunami messed up the roads (duh) and because they had no inventory, they shut down until they could figure a way to route around it. But you may remember there was a Japanese car shortage at that time and that's the reason. In most cases, it allows you to make your cars even cheaper than your competitors, but if a tsunami hits, well, you're screwed.

This will be my last post in this thread because you're obviously looking for any excuse to argue and not even paying attention to what I write. If you had read what I wrote, you would realize that I don't necessarily disagree with you. This conversation started when you disagreed with a poster's statement that GW was moving less volume; this has been proven to be the case as per their own released financials. I personally have never stated that less volume is necessarily a bad thing as, in this case, I own GW stock and am happy that they maintain a healthy profit level which means I continue to receive dividends. This does not detract from the original poster's statement that they moved less volume because they did so. I never stated it was either bad or good, just that the statement was accurate. Here is what I posted:

That's actually posted in another thread about GW financials and appears to be an accurate if general statement.

In my post I even state that the poster's statement was "general" meaning that it did not take into consideration all of the available facts.

As for the maturity of the market, you again attempt to misrepresent what I actually wrote. Looking back, though, I can see as how it could be interpreted two ways. Let me clarify. GW has stated that their preferred market consists of teens who will enter their shops, purchase several hundred dollars in merchandise and then either exit or continue to purchase at a reduced level. The reality here is that GW's games have a high entry threshold in that to establish an army, one must lay down quite a bit of money to reach viable army levels. Conversely, maintaining an already established army is not quite as difficult due to the limited number of new kits released with each "wave". I believe this to partially be the reason for the advent of fliers and the new love of monstrous creatures or other large kits. Large kits have high prices and generally good rules which makes them a "must have" for each army resulting in fewer people balking at the purchase price. Larger kits with higher prices means less volume (see above) and less inventory (see below) while resulting in higher profits.

Finally, you cherry pick my comment and take it out of the context of the rest of what I wrote; here, let me reiterate:

As for inventory. If you actually read the financials, you'll see that GW has maintained less inventory year on year. While a good idea in some regards, as you seem to already understand, it can hurt the company as well as was seen with the Tau release and other out of stock issues over the past year. When GW maintained higher levels of inventory, these issues were less frequent.

The only way that maintaining less stock was ever portrayed to be remotely negative by me was in regards to missing sales by not having adequate supplies on hand, either that or mis-judging demand.