Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all,

I'm planning on starting a new army. I have zero purchases made yet so its a clean list. I am planning on doing some head swaps and adding some shields for aesthetics only to give them a centurion feel. Anyway, this is my starter :

HQ: Librarian with Stave, powers Titan, Sanctuary & Warp Rift + Stormbolter

Elite : Vindicare Assassin
Elite : Purifier Squad (10) : KotF + Halberd, 4 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 4 Halberds

Troop : Terminators: Justicar no upgrades, 1 Psycannon, 2 Halberds, 1 Hammer (maybe add librarian to this unit?)
Troop : GKSS (5) : Psybolts, 1 Psycannon, Razorback TL-HB

Heavy : Dreadknight: Incinerator, Greatsword, Teleporter
Heavy : Dreadknight: Incinerator, Greatsword,


Next in line when expanding would be to add a Stormraven and maybe a dread. Also like the idea of adding an Inquisitor, some Crusaders and some Deathcult Assassins.

Any input is greatly appreciated before I go splash my cash!

Psybolt ammo isn't worth it on a 5man squad, it only really pays off on a 10 man with two psycannons. Why take sanctuary or warp quake on the Librarian? You're really light on scoring bodies, I don't think 10 is enough at 1500 points.

A lot of points are sunk into that purifier squad. I think you should redistribute them to your SSquad and Terminator. This gives you more flexibility with your troop choices. It cuts down on Psycannon shots, but they just aren't resilient enough in my opinion.

I think one Dreadknight with the Teleporter and incinerator is probably enough at this point level.

Dreadnought with two autocannons + Psybolt ammunition (the 135 point "Psyfleman") is an exceptional unit. Extremely potent offensively, and check out the Aegis rule.

Servo-Skulls are amazing. I highly recommend taking two on the librarian if you can (10 points). They deny enemy infiltrators as well as reduce your DS scatter to 1d6. Helps to drop in for an alpha strike.

Coteaz is also an exceptional HQ. at 1500 points you're just between where I think he's mandatory (1000) and potentially unnecessary (2000).

At 1500 points you're going to go up against lists that can potentially wipe a whole unit or more of whatever you prize most. You either need and extremely potent Deathstar or several threats that you can either bring to bear simultaneously or can survive concentrated fire.

Also, anti-air!

I find GK lists hard to craft due to high points cost. You can't really mess up any choices or you're going to have a bad time. Best of luck! And remember, those are just my opinions!

Edit::: also keep in mind that the librarian costs so much because he is a force multiplier. To make up for his price-tag you have to use him in a fairly strong unit!

The librarian is expensive for what he does, I don't think the book powers are worth it. You could take a ordo malleus inquisitor in terminator armor and get a psycannon and a divination roll for 110.

Vindicares get shot dead almost instantly, they only have a 4+ invuln 6+ FNP and 2 wounds for 145 points, and he's only taking out one thing a turn, assuming he lives that long (he won't).

Your purifiers have no good way to get close enough to shoot their psycannons and/or get into close combat, which is where they excel, and since you don't have Crowe using them to be fearless objective holders isn't working either. I find using them as an elites choice isn't all that good, take Crowe and use them as your troops or give them a rhino so they can get closer faster.

Only two troop choices, not enough to score anything and easily shot to pieces.

Dreadknights are good, wouldn't go all out on upgrades though, greatsword I find is unnecessary most of the time, you already hit on 3s against most targets and wound on 2s. Teleporters are fine but they are absurdly expensive, the 75 points for the teleporter is almost another 5 strike marines. Either play one decked out, or two with just incinerators. They can deep strike regardless of whether they take teleporter or not.

The list just has too few troops, 260 + 185 for DKs, 145 for vindicare, 280 for the purifiers, none of which score objectives.

Remember, boys before toys, get some more strike marines in here or take Coteaz for some cheap henchmen.

You are sorely lacking in troops. Either you need to drop either the Vindicare and/or Purifiers or swap the Libby for a Grand Master. Either way, you need more scoring units.

As to the Dreadknights, one PT DK is a target, two is a strategy. Either take two with PT and HI(GS optional), or take two on foot with HIs.

You need some AA, could drop the Libby and Vindicare for Crowe and an Aegis Quadgun with points to spare, or a Psyrifleman or two.

Also, one razorback is asking to get shot. Consider dropping it and upping the squad to 10 strong or picking up an Aegis for them to objective camp.


I'd drop the Libby, Vindicare, and the Purifiers and go Grand Master with Psycannon, Interceptors, and dual PT DKs. With a good Grand Strategy roll your entire army will be scoring at 1500 Points including two jump MCs.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

Vindicares get shot dead almost instantly, they only have a 4+ invuln 6+ FNP and 2 wounds for 145 points, and he's only taking out one thing a turn, assuming he lives that long (he won't).

Agreed, they die quite easily when left in the open BUT:
Put him in a ruin, take a Techmarine without any upgrades (90 pts) and bolster defences. Together with the vindicare's stealth rule you get a 2+ cover save for him.

 FlamestormA wrote:

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

Vindicares get shot dead almost instantly, they only have a 4+ invuln 6+ FNP and 2 wounds for 145 points, and he's only taking out one thing a turn, assuming he lives that long (he won't).

Agreed, they die quite easily when left in the open BUT:
Put him in a ruin, take a Techmarine without any upgrades (90 pts) and bolster defences. Together with the vindicare's stealth rule you get a 2+ cover save for him.

While that is true at that point you're spending 145 + 90 = 235 points on two non-scoring models, one of which does nothing after deployment, and one of which is shooting one model per turn and is pretty much a 2 wound terminator who can't leave his ruin. You can buy a 10 man strike squad with psybolt ammo and 2 psycannons(240) for that pricetag.

His list really needs troops, not more toys.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

 FlamestormA wrote:

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

Vindicares get shot dead almost instantly, they only have a 4+ invuln 6+ FNP and 2 wounds for 145 points, and he's only taking out one thing a turn, assuming he lives that long (he won't).

Agreed, they die quite easily when left in the open BUT:
Put him in a ruin, take a Techmarine without any upgrades (90 pts) and bolster defences. Together with the vindicare's stealth rule you get a 2+ cover save for him.

While that is true at that point you're spending 145 + 90 = 235 points on two non-scoring models, one of which does nothing after deployment, and one of which is shooting one model per turn and is pretty much a 2 wound terminator who can't leave his ruin. You can buy a 10 man strike squad with psybolt ammo and 2 psycannons(240) for that pricetag.

His list really needs troops, not more toys.

Good point. Then maybe drop the Assassin and get Coteaz with a cheap Henchman squad behind an Aegis Defence Line with one of the gun emplacements. 144 points for Coteaz and 11 Acolytes as a cheap home objective holder. Since the Purifiers aren't Troops maybe give them less upgrades or drop them completely which frees up enough points for the defence line + additional Henchmen if you want more cheap troops. Also (partially) solves the flyer problem since you now have a gun that can skyfire using BS 3 of the henchmen.
Or, as you said, another Strike Squad.

Awesome. Really appreciate the input folks. Exactly what I was looking for. going to read it again and adjust my list and re-post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, version 2 here. Not finished of course and more comments welcome. Hopefully you will see it turning in to a more balanced list.:

HQ : GK-GM with Psycotroke, Psycannon,
HQ: Coteaz

On these, wasnt sure whether its better to keep Coteaz back in case of drop pods etc and send GM up with the terminators or visa-versa.

Troops : GK-Terminators : Justicar with Stave, Psycannon, Hammer, 2 Halberds.
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 6 Standard
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 4 Standard
Troops : Henchmen : 1 Servitor with MM, 1 Acolyte with Melta, 8 Acolyte with Hot Shot Las

Fortification : Aegis with Quad (Henchmen behind this with 1 of the HQ, likely the warlord as well)

Heavy : Dreadknight, Incinerator, Teleporter
Heavy : Dreadnought : TL-AC x2, Psybolt Ammo

Dorrin wrote:
Awesome. Really appreciate the input folks. Exactly what I was looking for. going to read it again and adjust my list and re-post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, version 2 here. Not finished of course and more comments welcome. Hopefully you will see it turning in to a more balanced list.:

HQ : GK-GM with Psycotroke, Psycannon,
HQ: Coteaz

On these, wasnt sure whether its better to keep Coteaz back in case of drop pods etc and send GM up with the terminators or visa-versa.

Troops : GK-Terminators : Justicar with Stave, Psycannon, Hammer, 2 Halberds.
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 6 Standard
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 4 Standard
Troops : Henchmen : 1 Servitor with MM, 1 Acolyte with Melta, 8 Acolyte with Hot Shot Las

Fortification : Aegis with Quad (Henchmen behind this with 1 of the HQ, likely the warlord as well)

Heavy : Dreadknight, Incinerator, Teleporter
Heavy : Dreadnought : TL-AC x2, Psybolt Ammo

Looking better.

I find GMs to be super expensive, and not all that necessary. Your only non-scoring units in this list are the DK and Dread. You could downgrade(upgrade?) him to an ordo malleus terminator inquisitor with a psycannon and psyker mastery 1 that you can use on divination(you can't with the GM) for 110 and spend the other points on more scoring bodies.

I also don't like decking henchmen out, since they'll be sitting on an objective you would want them to have cheap, but effective guns. Hot Shot Las is too expensive what what you're getting, just take bolters on them and be done with it. Remember henchmen are for scoring your backfield and going to ground whenever someone looks at them funny. Take multiple cheap squads instead of one big squad of guys also for redundancy and incase of multiple objectives.

Your single bs3 multimelta servitor probably has no good targets for his gun unfortunately, and having to keep Coteaz with him at all times or locking up the whole unit 50% is no bueno. Coteaz is much better used for blessing the 10 man strike squad with rerolls and other sweet divination powers.

Dreadknight and Dreadnought are fine units, I tend to lean more toward dreadknights though as they have more survivability than the dreadnought, especially now with hull points.

You probably don't need but a single hammer on your justicar in the strike marine squads, no halberds or anything else, the upgrades add up(boys before toys, this is important in 6th edition). Terminators probably don't need the warding staff as it's expensive and your 1 wound terminator justicar will probably be shot and that investment gone before you get into CC.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:

Dorrin wrote:
Awesome. Really appreciate the input folks. Exactly what I was looking for. going to read it again and adjust my list and re-post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, version 2 here. Not finished of course and more comments welcome. Hopefully you will see it turning in to a more balanced list.:

HQ : GK-GM with Psycotroke, Psycannon,
HQ: Coteaz

On these, wasnt sure whether its better to keep Coteaz back in case of drop pods etc and send GM up with the terminators or visa-versa.

Troops : GK-Terminators : Justicar with Stave, Psycannon, Hammer, 2 Halberds.
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 6 Standard
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 4 Standard
Troops : Henchmen : 1 Servitor with MM, 1 Acolyte with Melta, 8 Acolyte with Hot Shot Las

Fortification : Aegis with Quad (Henchmen behind this with 1 of the HQ, likely the warlord as well)

Heavy : Dreadknight, Incinerator, Teleporter
Heavy : Dreadnought : TL-AC x2, Psybolt Ammo

Looking better.

I find GMs to be super expensive, and not all that necessary. Your only non-scoring units in this list are the DK and Dread. You could downgrade(upgrade?) him to an ordo malleus terminator inquisitor with a psycannon and psyker mastery 1 that you can use on divination(you can't with the GM) for 110 and spend the other points on more scoring bodies.

I also don't like decking henchmen out, since they'll be sitting on an objective you would want them to have cheap, but effective guns. Hot Shot Las is too expensive what what you're getting, just take bolters on them and be done with it. Remember henchmen are for scoring your backfield and going to ground whenever someone looks at them funny. Take multiple cheap squads instead of one big squad of guys also for redundancy and incase of multiple objectives.

Your single bs3 multimelta servitor probably has no good targets for his gun unfortunately, and having to keep Coteaz with him at all times or locking up the whole unit 50% is no bueno. Coteaz is much better used for blessing the 10 man strike squad with rerolls and other sweet divination powers.

Dreadknight and Dreadnought are fine units, I tend to lean more toward dreadknights though as they have more survivability than the dreadnought, especially now with hull points.

You probably don't need but a single hammer on your justicar in the strike marine squads, no halberds or anything else, the upgrades add up(boys before toys, this is important in 6th edition). Terminators probably don't need the warding staff as it's expensive and your 1 wound terminator justicar will probably be shot and that investment gone before you get into CC.

I agree with you on the topic of only using basic henchmen. I think that as long as they don't really pose a threat to the enemy but still are useful to you (by holding the objective) they have a good or at least better chance of survival, especially when your opponent is most likely concentrating most of his firepower on scarier units like the Dreadknight. Talking about it, I think that heavy incinerator and teleporter should work together nicely since the teleporter allows you to be in the optimal spot for flaming enemies!!
Back to the cultist I think you should have more than on squad of them. Maybe keep one in reserve and use them as a backup later in the game.

Thanks again. Slight tweak looks like this :

= HQ =
Coteaz
Ordo Malleus Inq Terminator (hammer / psycannon)

= Troop =
9 GK-SS Justicar with hammer, rest standrd + Rhino
9 GK-SS Justicar with hammer, rest standrd + Rhino
6 GK-Terminators Justicar with hammer, Psycannon, 4 Standard
10 Warrior Acolytes with Boltguns
10 Warrior Acolytes with Boltguns

=Heavy=
Dreadnought with 2 TL-AC + Psybolts
Dreadknight with Teleport + Incinerator

= Fortification =

Aegis + Quad Gun


List I usually face are Blood Angels, Black Templars, Eldar and Chaos. Often 1-2 Land Raiders and a few land speeders around as well. The Storm bolters would be fine once distance was closed (rhinos handy) though I wonder about the land raiders...

Grey knights rule of thumb: If you can put a psycannon on it, do it. It is one of the best weapons in the game. It can even pen up to armor 14 with good rending rolls.

Try to up your strike squads to 10 man and get psycannons, the 6th terminator also doesn't serve much purpose, you could drop it.

The rest looks fine, but I don't think you'll need full10 man squads of warriors with bolters. Maybe 6-8. Remember their job is just to sit on stuff and go to ground as soon as someone shoots em.

Dorrin wrote:

HQ : GK-GM with Psycotroke, Psycannon - 235 points
HQ: Coteaz - 100 points

Troops : GK-Terminators : Justicar with Stave, Psycannon, Hammer, 2 Halberds. - 245 points
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 6 Standard. - 230 points
Troops : GK-SS : Justicar with Halberd, 4 Standard - 100 points
Troops : Henchmen : 1 Servitor with MM, 1 Acolyte with Melta, 8 Acolyte with Hot Shot Las - 105 pints (is that right?)

Fortification : Aegis with Quad (Henchmen behind this with 1 of the HQ, likely the warlord as well) - 100 points

Heavy : Dreadknight, Incinerator, Teleporter - 235 points
Heavy : Dreadnought : TL-AC x2, Psybolt Ammo - 135 points

OK cool, you're heading in the right direction but the list needs a little more work.

If you want to take the GK-GM (a fine idea) take the warding stave on him, not the terminator justicar. Give him two servo skulls, the warding stave, and rad grenades for a real potent package. I can't overstate how important the skulls are for me. The rad grenades are huge, especially if you want to use the termies in CC, with hammerhand. I think the incinerator is the best weapon on him, oddly enough. For 5 points its a steal and it makes a lot of sense on a CC unit. Put him with the terminators.

You might want to drop the 5 terminators for 4 paladins. More wounds, but they're not scoring! This is a tough call. I like to play more aggressively with terminator armor, especially at this points level.

The Henchmen squad is too strange. I like to take 5pt/model acolytes x10 + 2x crusaders (they're optional). The 30 points of crusaders comes with two 3++ saves that'll keep the squad from getting completely annihilated by some attention. You could also use the 7pt/model storm bolter acolytes for an even 100pts per squad. Alternatively, 100 points for 2x 10-man bolt gun squads for lots of bodies on the table.

Use skulls to help target DStrike points. DS the GM with the terminators or paladins into a forward threatening position. Squads in support with DKnight. nought and 1 cheap henchmen unit+Corteaz on Aegis. Other henchmen for objective scoring or anti-horde.

This point level is hard to tweak!

Sample list of what I'd play if you're curious.

Coteaz 100
Ordo Malleus Inquis Hammer Psyker Psycanon 110

Paladins x 5 2x psycannon, 2 hammer 3 halberd 315
Strike Squad x 10 2 x Psycannon Hammer on justicar, Psybolt 250 x 2 = 500

Henchmen 3 plasma 5 bolter 67 x 2 = 134

Dreadknight Incinerator 160
Dreadknight Incinerator 160

1479

could add servoskulls to your inquisitor if you wanted.

Deep strike paladins, put dreads on board as bullet sink to your strike knights, stick coteaz and inquistor in one squad each for divination powers then march forward while your henchmen hold your objectives hiding in ruins. Plasma gives them some defense against terminators and the like.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:
Sample list of what I'd play if you're curious.

Coteaz 100
Ordo Malleus Inquis Hammer Psyker Psycanon 110

Paladins x 5 2x psycannon, 2 hammer 3 halberd 315
Strike Squad x 10 2 x Psycannon Hammer on justicar, Psybolt 250 x 2 = 500

Henchmen 3 plasma 5 bolter 67 x 2 = 134

Dreadknight Incinerator 160
Dreadknight Incinerator 160

1479

could add servoskulls to your inquisitor if you wanted.

Deep strike paladins, put dreads on board as bullet sink to your strike knights, stick coteaz and inquistor in one squad each for divination powers then march forward while your henchmen hold your objectives hiding in ruins. Plasma gives them some defense against terminators and the like.

Looks like a list that can dish out a lot (two dreadknights) but it's lacking troops again. I just think that if one of your troops is destroyed it would be very difficult to win a game where you play for objectives.

EDIT: Didn't see the 'x2', sorry

two squads of strike marines and two 8 man henchman squads, 36 scoring bodies isn't bad. The problem with GK is your units are expensive and require good tactics since you can't throw away any, so regardless of the list you bring you're either lacking in troops or lacking in heavy hitters. You have to make up for that with the fact that your basic units are usually stronger than the other persons and play to that.

Meanwhile I'm playing space wolves and bringing 40 grey hunters to the board for next to nothing... lol

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:
two squads of strike marines and two 8 man henchman squads, 36 scoring bodies isn't bad. The problem with GK is your units are expensive and require good tactics since you can't throw away any, so regardless of the list you bring you're either lacking in troops or lacking in heavy hitters. You have to make up for that with the fact that your basic units are usually stronger than the other persons and play to that.

Meanwhile I'm playing space wolves and bringing 40 grey hunters to the board for next to nothing... lol

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see the x2. Yeah 36 scoring models in a GK list sounds good to me.

I'll jump in here and say this:
if you face lists with a lot of Land Raiders, or just fight LRs on a regular basis, then the Vindicare is worth his points. Avg Pen of 17 means a dead LR. Of course, the other half of the time, she does nothing... but Deadshot is still worth a lot. I like to put her on an ADL Lascannon and snipe the enemy HQ!
Fitting one into your list now will throw off all your points....but she's still a good choice.

Thanks again folks.

I've tweaked this :

Coteaz 100
Ordo Malleus Inquis Hammer Psyker Psycanon 110
Added 3 servo skulls 9

Paladins x 5 2x psycannon, 2 hammer 3 halberd 315
Strike Squad x 10 2 x Psycannon Hammer on justicar, Psybolt 250 x 2 = 500

Henchmen 2 plasma 4 bolter 2 Crusader 78
Henchmen 2 plasma 4 bolter 1 Crusader 63
The thought being that the crusaders might give the some extra protection

Dreadknight Incinerator 160
Dreadknight Incinerator 160

Total 1495

I think I'd buy the Vindicare certainly to try him out, just not sure yet what Id sacrifice.

Been a great help guys, cheers.

Dorrin wrote:
Thanks again folks.

I've tweaked this :

Coteaz 100
Ordo Malleus Inquis Hammer Psyker Psycanon 110
Added 3 servo skulls 9

Paladins x 5 2x psycannon, 2 hammer 3 halberd 315
Strike Squad x 10 2 x Psycannon Hammer on justicar, Psybolt 250 x 2 = 500

Henchmen 2 plasma 4 bolter 2 Crusader 78
Henchmen 2 plasma 4 bolter 1 Crusader 63
The thought being that the crusaders might give the some extra protection

Dreadknight Incinerator 160
Dreadknight Incinerator 160

Total 1495

I think I'd buy the Vindicare certainly to try him out, just not sure yet what Id sacrifice.

Been a great help guys, cheers.

While the 3+ invulnerable on the crusaders is okay positioning them in a way that they take all the shots is unlikely, plus the odds are you're sitting in a ruin with a 4+ cover 3+ go to ground save or area terrain with a 5+ 3+ go to ground anyway, that just means you have less snap shots on the squad since crusaders don't have guns. If they get into CC with your henchmen then they're pretty much boned anyway.

I highly suggest staying away from the Vindicare, he is really only good if there is a land raider roaming around, and even then, glancing it to death with 6s on a psycannon isn't outside the realm of possibility.

So it looks like you are having a tough time deciding what you want your list to be. Do you want it to be as competitive as possible? Or are you concerned with taking units you find attractive or have great models?

If you are considering taking terminators in the list, I really think at 1500 point level, competitively, you should be taking either a large (read: 8 or more) squad of regular terminators, or Mordrak with his Ghost Knights. I say take Mordrak because he is crazy, crazy point efficient (you get 8 terminators for the price of 5, not counting the big man himself). If you don't want to take Ghost Knights, then either the big squad of regular termies (with two Psycannons) or a smallish squad of Paladins with a Grand Master are the way to go. Grand Masters are expensive, as mentioned above, but they can make Paladins a scoring unit with "Grand Strategy," making them a very effective unit.

As far as the Dreadknights go, I recommend the personal teleporters on them. As someone who regularly runs similar models (I use my Avatar a lot, and he has a similar profile defensively), I can tell you without any help those dreadknights are going to struggle to get to your enemy. Combined with the fact that they are your ONLY true anti-tank in this list, and you might have some trouble.

If you are going to take a regular dreadnaught, and because you said this is a "fresh" list, you should seriously consider taking a Storm Raven. These models are probably some of the best fliers in the game, and you get to add a TON of mobility to an entire squad PLUS a dreadnaught. If you can't tell, I think Stormravens are ridiculously good, and the only reason I don't use them myself (yet) is because I don't own the model.

So to narrow it down: GK + Pallies, Dreadknights w/ Teleporters, or Mordrak.. Choose one and build a list around it, you will be much better off than the sort of hodgepodge you have so far.

For everyone else, remember that Coteaz makes Henchman Warbands troops+scoring units, so earlier posters were correct in saying that it's a great way to hold your DZ objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Henchmen: the Warrior Acolytes are really overcosted and only BS3. You are better off taking crusaders and forgetting about these units doing anything much more than grabbing your DZ objectives.

If you really want to, you could take a couple of Jokaero in a Henchman Warband with a couple of plasma guns, giving them the possibility of 36" range. I think this is the only effective way to run a "shooty" henchman warband.

Dorrin wrote:
I think I'd buy the Vindicare certainly to try him out, just not sure yet what Id sacrifice.

I love Vindicare Assassins. I've found that they almost always perform well. My Vindicare consistently lives through the end of the game.

Mordrak is expensive and gives you non-scoring terminators who disappear if someone kills him(grand strategy does not allow you to make them scoring). Paladins aren't really going to ever be scoring outside of draigowing as giving a GM enough wargear to be good is almost the cost of draigo himself. They are ment to be disruptive and contest objectives.

Warrior acolytes are 5 points for a scoring guy with a bolter. Crusaders are 15 points for a guy who will likely never get into close combat and is just a 3+ invuln scoring guy, who is only better in cases where your not in area terrain/ruins to get a 3+ go to ground save. Jokero are a force multiplier which is fine if you are using your henchmen for something other than sitting on objectives, not in this list though.

Dreadknights have deep strike. Teleporters, while nice, aren't super necessary. DKs play the role of intimidation and fire magnet to keep scoring units safe. Besides, 1 teleporter = 15 warrior acolytes with boltguns(!!!).

Psycannons are Str 7 with rending, enough to wreck any vehicle in the game with concentrated fire. GK don't really have good long range support units or anti-tank.

Stormravens are fine if you want a tankhunter (las,mm), but the GK one has gakky missiles compared to the other chapters and it costs 5 points more for being a psychic vehicle(as do all their vehicles). Psybolt is nice anti-infantry though if you get assault cannons and hurricane bolters on it. Still a huge investment and is a pretty easy target for vendettas(you will see these if you play against guard).

Still don't like the Vindicare, I personally haven't had any luck with the unit.

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:
Mordrak is expensive and gives you non-scoring terminators who disappear if someone kills him(grand strategy does not allow you to make them scoring).

Well, GS can't make the GHOSTS scoring--but it can make Mordrak himself scoring, if you purchase no ghosts, since he is neither "Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights" nor an IC.
Although taking Mordrak all by himself, just in order to have a single scoring model, would be pretty bad tactics.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

DiabloSpawn33 wrote:
Mordrak is expensive and gives you non-scoring terminators who disappear if someone kills him(grand strategy does not allow you to make them scoring).

Well, GS can't make the GHOSTS scoring--but it can make Mordrak himself scoring, if you purchase no ghosts, since he is neither "Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights" nor an IC.

That... is actually kinda funny, guess that means you could make Castellan Crowe a scoring unit as well. Still would be horrible tactics to do that to Mordrak, but... interesting none the less.

Interesting points there guys. Some food for thought. Deep striking the Dreadknights could be good to save 75 points as well. I see what is meant about not having crusaders. Best thing to do now is just start buying some and painting! The acolytes I'll just use from my DKOK army so Im not spending any £ anyway.

The Teleporter is always extremely useful. If you don't have the points, that's fine, but it really changes the functionality of the Dreadknight. Without it, you can DS in to engage a single target, then (usually) just provide general area denial.

Hi all, just bringing this back to life a moment if I can.

I have my first game coming up with these v Demons and was looking to go with this list. Couple of things though :

i. On Paladins the Apothecary maybe with a warding stave, worth the points or OTT?

ii. Is the Banner (+1A) worth it or would you think decide their role and arm with Psycannons "OR" a banner but not both?

iii. In the 10 man Strike Squads Ive given the Justicar a hammer and then two Psycannons,

iv. Two groups of basic henchmen with bolters. their role would be to sit at the back and go for objectives and sit tight toying wit making one big group rather than two smaller.

v. 2 Dreadknights, knowing I will likely face a Bloodthirster, worth giving CC weapons?

Cheers