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VampireDeLaVega wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
I didn't know the Void Dragon looked like Thor lol. Fine the VD in full power would be stronger than the Emperor but the Emperor is nowhere as powerful as any of the Chaos Gods. In that epic fight with Horus, the Chaos Gods merely buffed Horus with they're blessings. Horus is a ant compared to the gods of Chaos. He was the gods most powerful champion at that time. Extremely powerful greater daemons is still leagues above the empowered Horus.

So what is the basis for these statements? Do you have a source proving that the Chaos Gods are way more powerful? Ill give you an example of why the Emperor is on-par or even stronger than the 4 Chaos Gods combined:

''For Mankind, the most significant occasion of this type was the rise of the Emperor. During this period, the Chaos Gods tried with all their might to bring about the Master of Mankind's downfall, culminating in their corruption of the Primarchs and the wars of the Horus Heresy.''

Page 8 of the Chaos Deamon Codex. Codexes are widely seen as propaganda for their own race, so why say ''tried with all their might'', this is implying they failed even with their full might, which they did.
The HH series has Deamons calling the Emperor the Anathema and calling upon Horus to help them before Chaos is destroyed by the Emperor. Why would they lie about this? If they really are as strong as you say they wouldnt need help and just snap their fingers.

If you want to have a meaningful discussion, try to back it up with arguments. Else you're just coming over as a total fanboy or a troll, or even worse, both.

Because the Chaos Gods are not in real space so they can't fight the Emperor, do you seriously think the Emperor could beat a Chaos God inside they're own domain within the warp? The Chaos Gods can't enter real space, if they could than the universe would had already ended in chaos. I think you might be the one trolling for even claiming the Emperor could beat the Chaos Gods at full power. I don't think the Emperor could even beat Khaine since hes the most powerful Psyker while Khaine/Chaos are actually the GODS of the warp. And every psyker draws powers from the warp.

So how are the Chaos Gods stronger than the Emperor. He rules the materium if they cant touch him there and they the immaterium according to you. So 4 Chaos Gods=Emperor? Both cant defeat each other in their own realm, you said so youreself, so how are the Chaos Gods stronger? There is the difference, the Emperor can enter the immaterium (and has done so for 10k years), he even outshines the Chaos Gods as the Astronomicon, if they were so powerful, why not smother it? The Chaos Gods can only act for a short while in the materium. Youre not even basing your arguments on anything except ''they own, no explanation needed.''
Like others have said, the warp isnt only the realm of the Chaos Gods. Its not like they own the local watercompany and can turn off your water if they dont like you, they would have done so with the Emperor's power if they could, right? We dont know for sure how strong the Emperor really is, but in the HH series he scares the Chaos Gods with what he is doing with the Great Crusade.

Edit: I wasnt calling you a troll, just that you might appear to be one to some with your form of debating, there is a difference.

I imagine a full C'tan is more powerful than the Emperor in the materium. You don't see the Emperor going around DEVOURING PLANETS, and he almost gets killed by an Ork war boss on one occasion. For his time on earth, the Emperor was really just a really really REALLY powerful and psychic man for the most part. Even the Imperial Cult claims his ascension and apotheosis came after he was interred on the golden throne.

The C'Tan themselves are kinda a what-if situation too. In present 40 millenium, they've certainly seen better days, if you get my drift. Also, you will never see a C'tan fighting a god on its home turf, and odds are you wouldn't see a god fighting a C'tan on a C'tan's turf, because the C'Tan can't even fit in the warp in the first place. Which makes me wonder how the Nightbringer got into a fight with THE Khaine in the first place. Maybe he was in the warp at the time, which explains how Khaine won so easily.

C'Tan are kinda like comparing apples and oranges though. They're beings of the physical realm and therefore follow a completely different set of rules than the other gods do (if the other gods can be stated to follow any rules at all).

Slaanesh is stated to be the weakest of the 4 gods, isn't he? That's what the wikia says, although I dunno the source. This is due to him being the youngest, although being the god of pleasure, he's gaining in popularity fast.

Khorne is stated to be the mightiest of the 4 gods. You can see the statement in the games workshop website if you look around, even. This makes sense given that the game is WARhammer 40k.

Gork and Mork are said to come back to life if killed. Theretically this makes them the most powerful of the gods if you include their eternal aspect. However, for each individual life, it's a bit more questionable. Though they're definately really powerful if that story of them tag-teaming Khorne and all. As a duo, of course. (but are they ever separate in the first place?)

The Imperial cult claims the Emperor is fighting the 4 gods all at once in the warp. If this is true, he's definately stronger than each of them individually. There isn't much to back this up, however. Certainly he threatened them in the material realm when they had to run like hell right before the Emperor obliterated Horus, but the gods were possibly in a weakened state then because they were in the mortal realm so it's arguable if that counts.

Slaanesh is probably stronger than Caegorach. Caegorach has to fight Slaanesh whenever a Solitaire dies and IIRC it's implied he loses more often than he wins (though he does win sometimes). I could be wrong. I'm not sure where I got that impression even, really.

My ranking would pretty much be:
1. Tzeentch with crystal staff
2. Gork and Mork
3. Khorne
4. Nurgle
5. Slaanesh
6. Emperor unascended
7. Void Dragon
8. Nightbringer
9. Deceiver
10. Cergorach

Let's get a couple of things right here.

If the Dragon of mars is indeed a part of the Void Dragon, it's merely a SHARD, not the full power of a C'tan. So the Emperor barely defeated a starving shard, instead of the Fully powered C'tan. This should immediately paint how strong a fully powered one is.

Khaine Only destroyed the Necrodermis Shell of the Nightbringer, while Khaine ended up being crippled.

The Fully powered C'tan also got a pretty huge boost thanks to some of the feats described in the 5th edition codex.

 Sasori wrote:
Let's get a couple of things right here.

If the Dragon of mars is indeed a part of the Void Dragon, it's merely a SHARD, not the full power of a C'tan. So the Emperor barely defeated a starving shard, instead of the Fully powered C'tan. This should immediately paint how strong a fully powered one is.

Khaine Only destroyed the Necrodermis Shell of the Nightbringer, while Khaine ended up being crippled.

The Fully powered C'tan also got a pretty huge boost thanks to some of the feats described in the 5th edition codex.

Not if you go by the old fluff which is much cooler and cryptic what with the Emprah beating the void dragon with a horse (probably shadowfax), and a sword & somehow dragging the body to Mars. Why would everyone be worried about a shard?

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Let's get a couple of things right here.

If the Dragon of mars is indeed a part of the Void Dragon, it's merely a SHARD, not the full power of a C'tan. So the Emperor barely defeated a starving shard, instead of the Fully powered C'tan. This should immediately paint how strong a fully powered one is.

Khaine Only destroyed the Necrodermis Shell of the Nightbringer, while Khaine ended up being crippled.

The Fully powered C'tan also got a pretty huge boost thanks to some of the feats described in the 5th edition codex.

Not if you go by the old fluff which is much cooler and cryptic what with the Emprah beating the void dragon with a horse (probably shadowfax), and a sword & somehow dragging the body to Mars. Why would everyone be worried about a shard?

Regardless, of "Old" fluff, it has been retconned to a shard.

And Shards are very powerful, a Transcendent Shard Can call down Anti-matter Meteors and falling stars.


Fluffwise, Shards are much more powerful than their Tabletop stats.

A young Emperor fought the Void Dragon. The current Emperor has trillions of worshipers, and thousands of lives sacrificed to him every day . It would not be unrealistic to assume that the he is much more powerful now.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Void Dragon is not conclusively proven to be the Dragon of Mars. It's a fan-theory, with some suggestive information supporting the theory, but it is in no way canonical. IMO, it's a good theory, and one I personally buy into, but it's not a definite fact in the setting that the Dragon of Mars is, in fact, the Void Dragon C'Tan.

Yeah, I'm sure it was some other immense dragon with a metallic hide that eats stars and influences technology.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:
Let's get a couple of things right here.

If the Dragon of mars is indeed a part of the Void Dragon, it's merely a SHARD, not the full power of a C'tan. So the Emperor barely defeated a starving shard, instead of the Fully powered C'tan. This should immediately paint how strong a fully powered one is.

Khaine Only destroyed the Necrodermis Shell of the Nightbringer, while Khaine ended up being crippled.

The Fully powered C'tan also got a pretty huge boost thanks to some of the feats described in the 5th edition codex.

Exactly, therefore it seems fair to say that the Void Dragon is several times more powerful than all four Chaos Gods and the Ork gods put together.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Void Dragon is not conclusively proven to be the Dragon of Mars. It's a fan-theory, with some suggestive information supporting the theory, but it is in no way canonical. IMO, it's a good theory, and one I personally buy into, but it's not a definite fact in the setting that the Dragon of Mars is, in fact, the Void Dragon C'Tan.

Yeah, I'm sure it was some other immense dragon with a metallic hide that eats stars and influences technology.

It's an awfully large galaxy, I'd be surprised if anything in it was truly unique.