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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 00:39:23
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Waaagh! Warbiker
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So I met a guy who swears up and down that by taking drop pods and storm ravens he can carry his whole army in reserve. He plays Codex: Space Marines. Is this right? If so how would this work?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 00:43:24
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Vehicles which must start in Reserves (such as Flyers and Drop Pods) as well as their occupants do not count towards the reserve limit.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 02:31:47
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Why does it happen so often that someone makes a "crazy" claim, and then somehow does not bother to offer the rules backing up his position?
"Dood, if I keep allllll my troops in pods and 'ravens, then I can have a null deployment!"
"What? I don't think you can do that...."
"No, I swear I can! Honest!"
"Do you have any rules to back that up?"
"Who cares? It's awesome!"
This is what Socrates calls "right opinion." Technically, he's correct. But he couldn't give any justification for his rightness, so he's only accidentally correct, which isn't very helpful.
Why wouldn't the person who "swears up and down" just show the OP the rule? Or, if they don't have a BRB handy, at least tell him "Models in transports that MUST start in reserve don't count toward the limit"?
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 03:43:53
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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However, he must still have a model on the table at all times. If at any point he has no models on the table, he loses automatically per the BRB.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 03:49:58
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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greyknight12 wrote:However, he must still have a model on the table at all times. If at any point he has no models on the table, he loses automatically per the BRB.
Not quite, it isn't 'at any point', it is at the end of a player/game turn (I forget which)
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 04:07:15
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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The Hive Mind
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Game turn.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 04:29:14
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Sixth has been out almost a year, and people still don't know that Drop Pod lists (even with fliers as well) still works.
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warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 04:37:26
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Crazyterran wrote:Sixth has been out almost a year, and people still don't know that Drop Pod lists (even with fliers as well) still works.
Unless you play Tyranids, null deployment Nids are officially dead, min deployment heavy reserves is still alive and kicking though.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 05:41:34
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Crazyterran wrote:Sixth has been out almost a year, and people still don't know that Drop Pod lists (even with fliers as well) still works.
And tend to work better with the reserve roll being increased to 3+ on turn 2
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::1750:: Deathwatch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 06:37:23
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Waaagh! Warbiker
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Elric Greywolf wrote:Why does it happen so often that someone makes a "crazy" claim, and then somehow does not bother to offer the rules backing up his position?
"Dood, if I keep allllll my troops in pods and 'ravens, then I can have a null deployment!"
"What? I don't think you can do that...."
"No, I swear I can! Honest!"
"Do you have any rules to back that up?"
"Who cares? It's awesome!"
This is what Socrates calls "right opinion." Technically, he's correct. But he couldn't give any justification for his rightness, so he's only accidentally correct, which isn't very helpful.
Why wouldn't the person who "swears up and down" just show the OP the rule? Or, if they don't have a BRB handy, at least tell him "Models in transports that MUST start in reserve don't count toward the limit"?
That was pretty much the EXACT situation I was in. I checked the BRB but I don't have the flyer book or BA book. But I've never encountered that kind of list locally, and he was arguing hull points to high heaven(swearing he was right that land raiders had 3) , so I doubted him.
greyknight12 wrote:However, he must still have a model on the table at all times. If at any point he has no models on the table, he loses automatically per the BRB.
What page is that on? Oddly curious as I haven't come across that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 06:43:09
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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dreamakuma wrote: greyknight12 wrote:However, he must still have a model on the table at all times. If at any point he has no models on the table, he loses automatically per the BRB.
What page is that on? Oddly curious as I haven't come across that.
Check Victory Conditions (It is in the Index)
I think the information is there.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 06:49:02
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Waaagh! Warbiker
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I found it, thanks guys for all the help. I'm not too familiar with fighting these kinds of lists and I didn't get any real rules for them, so I was pretty doubtful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 08:28:48
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Brainy Zoanthrope
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greyknight12 wrote:However, he must still have a model on the table at all times. If at any point he has no models on the table, he loses automatically per the BRB.
Only at the end of a Game Turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 09:14:55
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Page 122, for those who need to find the conditions for auto win.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 09:19:51
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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Tactics wise, if he runs this list he'll only have half his pods arriving on turn 1, with the rest arriving on turn 2 at the earliest if not later. You could deliberately try to go second, play aggressively and attempt to wipe out what arrives...if he has no models on the board at the end of game turn 1, you win.
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"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/01 16:49:04
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Waaagh! Warbiker
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Super Ready wrote:Tactics wise, if he runs this list he'll only have half his pods arriving on turn 1, with the rest arriving on turn 2 at the earliest if not later. You could deliberately try to go second, play aggressively and attempt to wipe out what arrives...if he has no models on the board at the end of game turn 1, you win. 
Definitely something I'll try to do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/03 07:36:03
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Chances are that if you can wipe out half the opponent's army in 1 turn after suffering losses from their alpha strike, you would've won anyway.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/03 08:33:37
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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PrinceRaven wrote:Chances are that if you can wipe out half the opponent's army in 1 turn after suffering losses from their alpha strike, you would've won anyway.
Half the opponents army? No, he's running both pods and ravens. Ravens don't count towards that "half of the pods"-thing. Odds are he will be dropping 3 pods round 1. If you have enough shooting to take those guys out, you won. Since he is gonna drop them on top of your guys, it's not too far fetched.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/03 08:48:55
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Purifier wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:Chances are that if you can wipe out half the opponent's army in 1 turn after suffering losses from their alpha strike, you would've won anyway.
Half the opponents army? No, he's running both pods and ravens. Ravens don't count towards that "half of the pods"-thing. Odds are he will be dropping 3 pods round 1. If you have enough shooting to take those guys out, you won. Since he is gonna drop them on top of your guys, it's not too far fetched.
With marines having a 3+ armor save, it is not likely that you will take out 30 marines and 3 Drop pods, that have 3 HPs each, on your shooting turn...
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 05:20:15
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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It depends largely on the size of the game, and exactly how much is in those drop pods. The bulk of the army may be in the Stormravens, with perhaps 1 or 2 pods.
It's easy to imagine winning this way under 1000 points with a few lucky rolls, or with a shooty army like Guard or Tau, or certain builds of Eldar. Hell, I've seen it happen with a Sternguard pod army, although it was against Tau and definitely a case of lucky rolls. Not something to rely on, but might as well be attempted.
(added) Deathreaper - Drop Pods only have 2HP, don't they? Plus they're open-topped. At armour 12, they're not lasting *that* long anyway.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/05 05:21:27
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 12:10:57
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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DPs have 3 Hull points. As already covered the rules for null deployment are in the BRB and further clarified by the FAQ. WithcTau and massed interceptor someone using SRs and DPs has a real chance of being tabled turn 1 as he gets alphastruck in his own turn. Then the Tau player has another full turn to kill him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 13:11:01
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Waaagh! Warbiker
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He's running Calgar and a lot of sternguard and tac squads, only saw a single raven in his collection.
1500 points
I don't know much else, because I haven't faced him yet. Really couldn't get any solid info from the guy. Like I said, he never cited sources or anything and wanted to argue rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/05 13:16:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 13:34:50
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Stabbin' Skarboy
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Drop pod lists work fine as you'll have models on the table by the end of the first turn.
You'd be hard pushed to table some one with interceptor I'm sure losing there now useless drop pods won't cause to many tears.
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3500pts 1500pts 2500pts 4500pts 3500pts 2000pts 2000pts plus several small AOS armies |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 13:59:33
Subject: So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Well you wouldn't intercept the pods. You'd drop S8 AP2 pie plates on the occupants and the finish off stragglers with Missilesides. The pods you'd assault and use Missile drones on in your turn. It is certainly possible...
For what he's saying it looks like Calgary in a SR presumably with Hammernators (no other way to use him). So that's about 700 points right there. Then the DPs with tac squads and Sternguard means 2 Tac squads and 1 Sternguard as that's basically all you're getting for the 800 points left. Which means you've to kill 20 MEQs and 2 pods between intercept and turn 1. I'd say that's highly likely. Unless he meant Pedro rather than Calgary in which case he could be making a stronger list but still unlikely to include more than 21 MEQs arriving turn 1...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 15:47:05
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Stabbin' Skarboy
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Sorry I'm not to familar with dp rules I thought you ment you could intercept the pods there for killing the occupants, but I didn't think that happend, thanks for clarifying!
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3500pts 1500pts 2500pts 4500pts 3500pts 2000pts 2000pts plus several small AOS armies |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/08/05 23:33:08
Subject: Re:So, drop pods and storm ravens to work past the reserve rules.
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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If Senor Cortez is there when you drop in on him and his friends at the beginning of turn one, it could be bad...
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If I was vain I would list stuff to make me sound good here. I decline. It's just a game after all.
House Rule -A common use of the term is to signify a deviation of game play from the official rules.
Do you allow Forgeworld 40k approved models and armies? |
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