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It's not quite as good as all that. For example, the BT and BA don't have enough favorable matchups to be considered a "rock" or a "scissors". GK/Necrons or Tau have more than 33% favorable matchups. That's what makes some codices competitively superior to others.

 Zaki66 wrote:
Why are we all forgetting Matt Ward's infamous Grey Knights?


I mean.... they cost the same as normal Space Marines, just with Storm Bolters, instant death weapons, AP 3 in melee by default, deep strike.............. and more. And I haven't even mentioned Psyfleman Dreads or flyers.

so wrong for so many reasons...

they certainly DIE the same as normal space marines, but a normal on is 16pts, GK=20pts, 25% increase. Psyflemen rock for a turn or two against other light vehicles, but really are not hard to deal with, its just another AV12 vehicle.

Gk is a good codex, certainly better off then orks and NID's, but not on the same level tau/eldar/guard(esp with FW) right now by a good stretch.


tau/guard(with FW)/eldar/necrons are the top codexes right now IMO

 labmouse42 wrote:

Elgingo wrote:
Thanks for the great replies everyone.

Doing my research before I really get back into the hobby, allies look like they are a massive part of the game now, and shouldn't be ignored when talking about what's top tier.

Are the best allies just smaller forces made up from the best armies already mentioned or are there great allies from the normally lower tiered armies, cause the army as a whole isn't great but may have 1 or 2 really great units?

Necron players like to ally with CSMs mainly for the purpose of bringing a heldrake. And WGC was won with necrons with Ork allies. I can maybe see some Tau allied with eldar or vice versa being an extremely potent combination.

Stop. Any army that you buy will no longer be 'top dog' after a while.

If you bought a GK army in January 2012 you would be playing a powerhouse army. 8 our of the top 16 at Adepticon that year were GK. Today GK are a decent army, but I don't find them that challenging to play against.

If you rushed out and bought 3 helldrakes when the CSM codex dropped, your probably starting to notice they are less effective. New books have come out with counters, and people have learned to deal with them.

My friend plays orks -- arguably a bottom teir codex. He is an exceptional player and often wins the brackets hes in at GTs. This is because hes played the army for so long hes learned how they operate. Hes adaptive and changes his tactics to face todays meta.

The point is this : Don't spend lots of $$$ on an army because you think its 'win'. Pick an army you think is cool, and you could see yourself playing in 3 years time. Pick an army you think looks cool. Your going to get much more mileage out of that.
(reposted message because it applies here too)

I already own a eldar and tyranid army from when I used to play many years ago, I'm not necessarily going to buy a new army, I made this topic just to get a sense of where things are now competitively. If I was though I'd get a daemon army not cause they are good but because they just seem fun to play and cheap to put an army together. I also prefer painting fewer models rather than hordes of monotonous units, which also means they are easier transport. Nothing would loathe me more if I had to sit there and paint 5 or 6 wave serpents or 100 odd guardsmen.

Your right though, unless you have loads of money then buy the army you like best rather than what's best. Each new codex since 6th has added a strong army with the last few being very strong. The supplements not so much so I'm not expecting wonders from the black legion codex, but the next proper codex (space marines?) will no doubt continue in this trend.

The notion of a current top tier is far different than at the end of 5th ed when GK dominated the meta.

There are many top tier books, and thus far pretty much every 6th ed book is "Top tier" without causing a major power creep.

GK still have multiple competitive builds. Matt Ward wrote a balanced 6th ed book that is well balanced in the current 6th ed meta.

Necrons are the most common top tier army. Dlord or 2 with MSS in a unit of wraiths, 3 annihilation barges, and some croissants=the cookie cutter build.

CSM have an insane fast attack force org with hell turkeys and axe of blind fury lords on juggies inside units of spawns.

Deamons have corn dogs, lots of fast assault units, and flying circus.

DA salvo was pretty silly until they nerfed the 4+ invo generator wargear. Now the salvo lists kick ass but struggle against hell turkey, but in a FW meta with allied battle bro IG and sabers DA salvo lists are still top tier.

Everybody agrees Tau and Eldar are also top tier now.

IG with their abundance of allies is also regarded as top tier.

Space wolves with their ability to ally with IG is also regarded as top tier.

Nids have some builds that are regarded as top tier, and everybody feels tervigons with biomancy are a top tier unit..

So if every 6th ed book has a way to be top tier and five of the 5th ed books have top tier builds then almost every army is top tier, and thus there is no longer any such thing as top tier.

 schadenfreude wrote:


So if every 6th ed book has a way to be top tier and five of the 5th ed books have top tier builds then almost every army is top tier, and thus there is no longer any such thing as top tier.

My God someone else gets it. For a while I though no one else saw it. It was amusing for a while...

 DragonRider wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:


So if every 6th ed book has a way to be top tier and five of the 5th ed books have top tier builds then almost every army is top tier, and thus there is no longer any such thing as top tier.

My God someone else gets it. For a while I though no one else saw it. It was amusing for a while...

It will be interesting to see how things fall into place competitive-wise once every army has had their codex updated and 1 or 2 supplements for each are out. With the current pace of releases maybe we will find out in 2 years.

Anyway from the general worldwide scene the top six best performers are

1. Necrons
2. Tau
3. Eldar
4. Imperial Guard
5. Chaos Daemons
6. Chaos Space Marines

With allies it becomes rather murkier with most of the slots being combos of the above six.

This edition favors armies with fire power. Tau and Eldar are of that type. The same holds for IG.
On the other hand, Daemons with a flying circus and other fast moving units (fiends, allied Helldrake) can be hard to remove quickly and so can ruin your day.
Necrons are still top tier since they allow to build a very balanced army with fast moving cc units, Wraiths, devastating shooty support units, and the unique Nightscythes transporting scoring units.