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Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous

Your statement is pretty offensive, just to let you know. I, for one, think that Tau are a great army now with limited, but effective options. The only problem I see right now is the vastly undercosted / overpowered Riptide that needs to be kept in line. While 1 is no problem, 2 are already a clear message and 3 are just breaking the game. If the Riptide gets somehow fixed, Tau is a great army book.

Tycho wrote:

A LR Demolisher costs literally 20 points less. Lets weigh the differences there, shall we?

So you compare a Riptide to a unit from an old book that hasn't gotten its update yet and that's your standard for it being over-priced?
Unless I missed an FAQ (which is very possible as I'm always behind on those) then ...

Its not going to end up much cheaper, is it. Vindicators sit firmly on the 125 point benchmark right now established by Codex Dark Angels so realistically the maximum drop I expect to see is the LRBT being 135 and the LRDT being about 145. 40 points for that many extra advantages and about 3-5 times the amount of durability is still disgusting.

Vehicles cost almost the same as MC's yet are many times easier to kill. Its a joke.

Kangodo wrote:

Excuse me? Necrons equally functional at that game? At shooting?
My Warriors aren't 9 points, nor are they S5 at 30"; My Doomsday doesn't have a 2+ save.
There is a good reason why our top list spends over half their points on melee-squads and it is NOT because our shooting is "equally functional" to Tau.
.

tesla. gauss. necron airpower. necron dakka is solid.

fire warriors cost 9, have a good gun coupled to average stats and OK leadership. they have the same kill ratios as basic marines with boltguns for half the survieability, some of the holding ability, and none of the close combat ability. Similarly, 30" is nice, but outranged by a lot of things - i cant tell you the amount of times ive seen fire warriors lose a shooting duel to a unit with heavy bolters for example. oh, and they dont come back from the dead either.

Kangodo wrote:

Where is the design in taking whatever you want since "covering your weakness" is already included in the unit?
.

can you clarify what you're trying to say here mate - i apologise, but im not getting your argument.

Kangodo wrote:

If Marker-drones were only available in Drone-squadrons from the FA-slot, you'd have a point.
I would also agree with you if Supporting Fire and Jet Packs were optional and if you had to buy them.
.

jet packs and markerdrones are hardly free mate. crisis suits are hardly what i call "cheap", nor do they offer unparalleled mobility. at best, they're as fast as what other codices have access to. there are plenty of ways to run them down.

Kangodo wrote:

For many people and codices it is mutually exclusive.
It sucks when you start to play with an army because you like unit/strategy 'X' and get beaten because you don't want to play unit/tactic 'Y'.
I did a little calculation for you: I play with Blood Angels and I have 4k points of models.
But when I want a chance at beating Tau, I need to spend another 300-350 Euro.

I genuinely dont see how. With respect, the poster i was referring to said he "can't think of what else to do than literally bring better lists, as much as it pains me as a fluffy/fun player." the poster impies that "better" lists are somehow wrong-that they utterly go against, and are incompatible with both "fun" and "fluff". and honestly, i find that argument both ludicrous, and insulting. my point was "better" lists are not mutually exclusive from either "fun" or "fluff". imperial guard airborne wings are top tier builds, for example (elysians, or harakoni warhawks for example), and are completely fluffy. better lists are better lists. fluff is an entirely separate matter. a "better" list can be as "fluffy" and as "fun" as an unoptimised one.

To an extent - i'll agree. its a pain when you want something to work, and it doesnt. but im a pragmatist at heart. and this is 40k. if i want to do well, i'll have to change things up. if things are within my power that will help be do better, and i dont take them, then the loss is on me, not the other guy being somehow "OP". as much as i might want to run X, my first question to myself is this: is it practical? if its not, then to me, there is no point. harsh, but true.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous

Your statement is pretty offensive, just to let you know. I, for one, think that Tau are a great army now with limited, but effective options. The only problem I see right now is the vastly undercosted / overpowered Riptide that needs to be kept in line. While 1 is no problem, 2 are already a clear message and 3 are just breaking the game. If the Riptide gets somehow fixed, Tau is a great army book.

I guess it must be my meta because not a lot of people are spamming the Riptide. Also if you cant beat it with a stick ignore it. The riptide might seem rather mighty on paper but it has the chance at get hot rolls it has the chance at screwing up overcharge, it can easily be tied up. I just do not understand the complaints about the unit at all.

Flying Toaster wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous

Your statement is pretty offensive, just to let you know. I, for one, think that Tau are a great army now with limited, but effective options. The only problem I see right now is the vastly undercosted / overpowered Riptide that needs to be kept in line. While 1 is no problem, 2 are already a clear message and 3 are just breaking the game. If the Riptide gets somehow fixed, Tau is a great army book.

I guess it must be my meta because not a lot of people are spamming the Riptide. Also if you cant beat it with a stick ignore it.

Practically impossible because it has infinite range and a huge LOS field.


The riptide might seem rather mighty on paper but it has the chance at get hot rolls it has the chance at screwing up overcharge

Both of which are unlikely, one of which can be totally avoided and usually is


, it can easily be tied up.

Not when its on the other side of the board, behind a building, JSJ'ing.

Still has Guardsman BS, Still needs Support to make those awesome sauce shots with a possibility of hurting him self when nova charging

the gets hot roll is negligible indeed

There is only soo much board to move. JSJ will give you average 7" move or on a 3+ 12-(14?)", not enough to fly clear over and out of range, or back up against a table edge.

Boniface wrote:
I would have thought hobbyists would enjoy painting more models.

Painting yes, buying no

Its not going to end up much cheaper, is it. Vindicators sit firmly on the 125 point benchmark right now established by Codex Dark Angels so realistically the maximum drop I expect to see is the LRBT being 135 and the LRDT being about 145. 40 points for that many extra advantages and about 3-5 times the amount of durability is still disgusting.

And now you're comparing a Space Marine vehicle to a Guard one? Honestly, I can see the LRBT going as low as 100-120 in this new edition. Sounds crazy I know, but I can really see it. Anyway, point is, it's just silly to base your specific argument on a unit that isn't updated.

For example, when the new CSM book came out I said that I thought cultists should actually have been a little cheaper. People immediately screamed that I was dumb because they were cheaper than Grots. Then the Tau book came out. When you compare a cultist to a Kroot and look at their costs ... yeah. The cultist is too expensive. So anyway, point is, if you're going to claim something is not properly costed, at least compare it to something from the SAME edition.

Deadnight wrote:
tesla. gauss. necron airpower. necron dakka is solid.

I never said they weren't solid but I would never call their shooting on the same level as Tau.

fire warriors cost 9, have a good gun coupled to average stats and OK leadership. they have the same kill ratios as basic marines with boltguns for half the survieability, some of the holding ability, and none of the close combat ability. Similarly, 30" is nice, but outranged by a lot of things - i cant tell you the amount of times ive seen fire warriors lose a shooting duel to a unit with heavy bolters for example. oh, and they dont come back from the dead either.

Same kill ratio? That is only true if you ignore Markerlights or the CnC-node.

can you clarify what you're trying to say here mate - i apologise, but im not getting your argument.

Okay, I will.
The weakness in the Tau codex are BS3 and melee.
In my opinion it's too easy for them to 'cover this weakness'.
Markerlights are thrown around like candy, it allows overwatch on BS2 or 3 and it ignores cover.
And Supporting Fire is on almost every unit in the codex.
Battlesuits have a Jet Pack which helps them even more.

You ignore markerlights and CnC node for FW because you'd have to be silly to put a Commander suit with a CnC node in Firewarrior squads and markers are still hard to come by so can't be used by EVERY squad. It's also why you don't factor in special/heavy weapons for marines.

Ooh, in that case I am sorry.
I am just imagining Tau players domination everywhere from 500 point breaklunch-games to championship tournaments.

I have played Tau all through 5th edition and love the new dex. In the 3 tournaments so far that I played I have lost to FMC heavy Chaos Daemons w/Chaos Marines (Heldrake + cultists) twice and another Tau list once. The best thing going now though is the Farsight supplement as allies to bring Battle suits as troops.

In casual games no one has refused to play me and I still have fun, close, games as we play with a lot of terrain. YMMV

Flying Toaster wrote:

I guess it must be my meta because not a lot of people are spamming the Riptide. Also if you cant beat it with a stick ignore it. The riptide might seem rather mighty on paper but it has the chance at get hot rolls it has the chance at screwing up overcharge, it can easily be tied up. I just do not understand the complaints about the unit at all.

You cannot ignore it. It has a huge range, can even ignore LOS with its rockets and is very durable. The "Get Hot" rules are a 33% chance to not get the bonus effect. That doesn't change that it has extremely good stats to begin with and good weaponry to back it up - let alone in-built counters to e.g. DSing enemies aiming to take them out. Tieing them up needs list-tailoring as Tau tend to just protect them with cheap meatshields, mainly big Kroot units.

i give it a month before we here the same contrived arguments about space marines being OP. With broadside equivalents that can move and shoot multiple targets with lascannons.

Oh wait... over powered marines... that doesn't happen.

Kangodo wrote:
Ooh, in that case I am sorry.
I am just imagining Tau players domination everywhere from 500 point breaklunch-games to championship tournaments.

If Tau players really are dominating every thing as you state, back it up with some facts that they are actually taking over as the dominant army in tournaments.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:


You cannot ignore it. It has a huge range, can even ignore LOS with its rockets and is very durable. The "Get Hot" rules are a 33% chance to not get the bonus effect. That doesn't change that it has extremely good stats to begin with and good weaponry to back it up - let alone in-built counters to e.g. DSing enemies aiming to take them out. Tieing them up needs list-tailoring as Tau tend to just protect them with cheap meatshields, mainly big Kroot units.

Are you even playing with the suggested amount of terrain or are you just playing on a base table with little to no coverage. I must come from Bizaro land in which Tau are not as OP as everyone seems to make them because they are not the unstoppable super power that everyone makes them out to be in my local area. Let me guess your from the camp that states the Helldrake should be nerfed as well.

Flying Toaster wrote:
Let me guess your from the camp that states the Helldrake should be nerfed as well.

I'm not sure yet if you're just lacking experience or trolling.

Flying Toaster wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Ooh, in that case I am sorry.
I am just imagining Tau players domination everywhere from 500 point breaklunch-games to championship tournaments.

If Tau players really are dominating every thing as you state, back it up with some facts that they are actually taking over as the dominant army in tournaments.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:


You cannot ignore it. It has a huge range, can even ignore LOS with its rockets and is very durable. The "Get Hot" rules are a 33% chance to not get the bonus effect. That doesn't change that it has extremely good stats to begin with and good weaponry to back it up - let alone in-built counters to e.g. DSing enemies aiming to take them out. Tieing them up needs list-tailoring as Tau tend to just protect them with cheap meatshields, mainly big Kroot units.

Are you even playing with the suggested amount of terrain or are you just playing on a base table with little to no coverage. I must come from Bizaro land in which Tau are not as OP as everyone seems to make them because they are not the unstoppable super power that everyone makes them out to be in my local area. Let me guess your from the camp that states the Helldrake should be nerfed as well.

GW Tournament boards do not have a lot of terrain at all. I went to a tournament hosted by England's ETC team for practice a few months ago and their boards featured clear lanes of fire but a fair number of area terrain features.

A Riptide has a massive LOS and can jump on buildings (and then jump down!) to fire. That means that even if you're playing on a ridiculously thick city board you'll still be able to see most of it. As for cover bonuses a 5+ is not something you'll crave against AP2 pie plates.

Kangodo wrote:
Same kill ratio? That is only true if you ignore Markerlights or the CnC-node.
.

indeed. same kill ratio. factor in markerlights, and now they are more killy, but also more expensive. and X points of "support" is X points less of actual killy stuff. so it works out favourably when you do the comparisons. now factor in all the areas in which they are weaker...

Kangodo wrote:

Okay, I will.
The weakness in the Tau codex are BS3 and melee.
In my opinion it's too easy for them to 'cover this weakness'.
Markerlights are thrown around like candy, it allows overwatch on BS2 or 3 and it ignores cover.
And Supporting Fire is on almost every unit in the codex.
Battlesuits have a Jet Pack which helps them even more.

you are looking at it with too narrow a focus. its not just bs3 and melee. to be honest, average stats are just that- "average". neither a strength nor a weakness. just kinda "meh". Look beyond bs3 and melee. what do you see? average ld, low model count, average mobility, and general squishiness also factor into it (t3 with a 4+, or 5+ save isnt great. t4, 3+ save and 2 wounds but costing 70odd points is also quite squishy. and kroot?). tau have a lot of good things going for them now, but they have a lot of things where they are merely on a par with everyone else, and then there is the stuff that ties them to the ground too.

tau were always about having the tech to make their average doods great. as such, markerlights do the job perfectly. they're an asset. they're certainly a strength. they're "enablers". but they're hardly free. most markerlight platforms are expensive and/or squishy and as mentioned, X spent on support is X-less spent on killy stuff. So do you want less stuff better, or more stuff at average? it works out the same. and then you kill the support, or tie it down in some way, and the less spent on killy stuff starts to suffer as it cant carry its own weight.

regarding melee - they cant ever do well in it, but they can throw a spanner in the works. but this is an edition where GW didnt want melee to be the focus ie they have tricks to counter melee in a game edition designed to counter melee. come on, its not rocket science. It means you need to adapt to the edition- you should be shooting them. you dont need to get them into melee. they're squishy. bolters and flamers do a number on their basic infantry. plasmas and meltas shred their suits.

markerlights as candy? my personal take is id prefer less markerlights, but make them more awesome. personal tastes aside, markerlights are a feature of the tau, and always have been. its like ATSKNF for marines. regarding the fact that it ignores cover - it allows one unit potentially to ignore cover. its not like there are other weapons out there from other factions that dont natively ignore cover either. cover saves are the bane of tau. they used to have utter fits dealing with them.

supporting fire? works within 6'. castling tau? hit them with blasts.

jet packs? theyre on pricey units, and lets be honest here, they're not fast. they're as fast as a lot of what other codices have on offer-12" a turn, and slow against others. they're on expensive, relatively fragile platforms. and with the multitude of threat vectors available to a canny player (infiltration, outflanking, deepstriking, vehicle speed, long range dakka etc) you can overwhelm them with threat vectors and leave them with little room to hide, and less room to run to - there is only so much space on a 6" by 4" board after all. its a nice trick, but its hardly overwhelming.

 Mr.Omega wrote:


GW Tournament boards do not have a lot of terrain at all. I went to a tournament hosted by England's ETC team for practice a few months ago and their boards featured clear lanes of fire but a fair number of area terrain features.

A Riptide has a massive LOS and can jump on buildings (and then jump down!) to fire. That means that even if you're playing on a ridiculously thick city board you'll still be able to see most of it. As for cover bonuses a 5+ is not something you'll crave against AP2 pie plates.

Woh wait a sec

1) GW runs Tournaments again?
2) a Riptide being a MC cant land on top of buildings(ruins) at least your supposed to decide with your opponent which levels and areas are able to support big creatures. otherwise they have to be on the base floor IF they fit.

Sooo....

It boils down to "Tau has gone too far" and the entire codex is a horrid thing and should be never played with because it has ONE underpriced unit?


FFS, if you at least bothered making arguments that made sense I'd prove you wrong, but the entire "anti-tau" camp is either projecting the riptide's price issue on the entire codex, or say outright nonsense.

"Markerlights are thrown around like candy", yea. like candy that costs almost a tactical marine, have have a statline worse then basic guardsman, so OP.

"it allows overwatch on BS2 or 3 and it ignores cover. " increase accuracy and ignore cover....what does that remind me of...OH! PSYKERS! yaknow, the ones tau can't have.
Oh, template weapons ignore cover too! whats this? most armies got stronger template guns then base flamers? OH MY!

Now, yes-we can count the markerlight effect into a fire warrior squads with no price modification. to see "how effective" they are, once we count DA tactical as having a banner of devastation for free as well.

"far superior mobility" because they got jetpacks and skimmers....would I make a short list of things that compete with or beat it?
Dreadknight shunt, covering 30" in one turn.
Eldar/Dark jetbikes.
The ENTIRE eldar army battle focus. (rather then just elites and FA)
Warp spiders-FAR more mobile.
Eldar/Dark-FAST skimmers.
Land Speders-more fast skimmers.
Ravenwing and bikers-move faster.
Assault Marines-moves faster.
Chaos spawn and other "beast" types keeping the "more movement" theme.
Thunderwolf Cavalry-still faster.
FMC-still faster.
Liberian "gate" power
Cryptek "gate-like" equipment
Every BA tank, they are all fast.
IG artillery-who cares about mobility? I got infinite+1 range and need no LOS.
That's just the top of my head-there are sure to be way, way more.

And the mere argument on supporting fire from the firstplace, you mean it seems MORE reasonable that the one army that got literally NO units capable to hold their own on assault, and their most "assault oriented" squads are about on par with a guardsman would NOT have some defense to prevent assaults?
Because being fair requires that the tau player will need to eat an assault in turn 2 by two squads on assault marines, a notoriously bad unit, and yet it would be enough to wipe out his entire army.
The most reasonable thing is that the "we can only shoot" army would be the easiest army in the game to get into CC with, right?
You know full well that without it even a dumb ass tactic of sending tactical marines running forward until they are in charge range and then just charge would have a fair chance against tau. supporting fire its not a privilege, its a necessity.


And to all who compare to the old codex, you seem to forgot that codex had one army list late fifth-take minimum troops because you have to despite them being completely worthless, spam 9 broadsides, fill the rest of the points with whatever you want, it hardly matters as nothing else is remotely worth the price.

Grow up, get a spine, and hate the damn riptide, its the only thing that is wrong with the tau codex, and even he not by THAT much. other codecies got far more undercosted options. Heck, there is not a single thing in the tau codex that cant be done in some way by at least a few others, it just takes a different path.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So wait. Necrons troops get very versatile weapons, LD10, a better statline, RP, an AV13 open topped transport, and a flying transport.
And you're complaining about Firewarriors being 9 points. You can't have been serious about that.
And all of those bonuses help with a shooting army since a more durable troop gets to stay out longer and fire more.

you forgot auto-glance on a 6

Personally being an IG player first and an Tau player second I can understand peoples frustration towards, the Riptide, to a degree anyway. I dont like hearing that because I take more then one Riptide that automatically makes me a "cheese" or TFG kind of player as that is not the case at all, personally I love the model, being a kid that grew up watching and loving Gundam Wing, ect. and honestly think some people are overreacting when it comes to the "invincibility" of the Riptide. With my Airborne IG I have never had a problem against Riptides as either my Vendettas or Veterans with plasma guns handle them in short order, but since that is in regards to a specific "list" that I run ill try and do it in neutral terms.

 Mr.Omega wrote:


Except it only costs 5 points to upgrade the Heavy Burst Cannon to a S8 AP2 pie plate with practically infinite range.

A LR Demolisher costs literally 20 points less. Lets weigh the differences there, shall we?

Lose 2 strength for infinite range and the ability to switch to 3 solid shots
Can't ever be killed in one lucky shot save for very rare things like JOTWW.
2D6 jump in the assault phase
12'' move and fire in the movement phase
Nova Reactor
Practically impervious to anything that isn't AP2
Twinlinked meltagun, 'SMASH' ability
Massive height and ability to jump on buildings to extend it even further for LOS purposes.
Can't be killed by Tactical Marines or equivalent in an assault with krak grenades unless he has a miracle
Requires about 2 or 3 times the amount of firepower to reliably kill

And you're telling me that the Riptide isn't underpriced?

-LR Demolisher has 14 Front Armor, a S10 AP2 large blast template, can take a great variety of other weapons and you can take more then x3 of them. Different Strengths and different weaknesses, would be a better argument if it was against another MC, like the Wraithknight for example.
-In regards to point cost I do believe it is undercosted, however so are many other things in different books and other armies spam them just as readily, its not just Tau players.
-3 Solid shots that are good Strength and AP but are BS 3 and have a chance to hurt the Riptide if charged, 1/3 of a chance to hurt it if it Nova Charges.
-Its a MC and just like other MC there is little that can drop one of them in a single shot, Riptide being a MC as well should be treated no differently.
-Average roll for the 2D6 jump is around 7-8 inches and the fact that its such a large model you should always be able to shoot it.
-As mentioned, it only moves 6 inches and fire in the movement phase, not a jump pack monstrous creature like the Wraithknight.
-Nova reactor is a double edged sword as it has a chance of failing 1/3 of the time and hurting your Riptide.
-AP2 helps but it is not impervious to everything not AP2, Eldar Shuriken shots will take one of these down pretty quickly thanks to rending and poison hurts as well.
-Yes a TL Meltagun, 4 shot heavy bolter or plasma gun, when compared to other things such as the Scatter Laser shinanigans of Eldar, the Power of the Machine spirit from Space Marine variant vehicles it is not to far fetched, and it is still BS3. And again it is a MC so of course it is going to have the "Smash" ability just like every other MC.
-I have played with the rule if the model fits and does not fall over it can land on top of certain things, that being said yes it gets great lanes of fire, that is just being tactically smart and not limited to the Riptide.
-Marines need 6's to wound it in CC whereas the Riptide only has 3 attacks base if it does not use its "Smash" ability. Add in Krak Grenades and you need 4's to wound it in CC, do more wounds which is not as hard as you think as the Riptide only has LD8 giving it a good chance to break.
-Again just like all MC's it takes alot of firepower to kill it.

I understand that you are entitled to your opinions guys so this is not a personal attack on them. I can agree that the Riptide is good and slightly undercosted for what it can do but even then I dont think it is as bad as many of you are making it out to be. If you are seeing alot of Riptide spam instead of saying how OP it is start constructing your lists to counter them better, I feel that the points I made above are a pretty fair counter argument for all that was listed. In regards to "ignoring cover" and things like that that involves a completely different unit (expensive and squishy ones at that which as already mention take away from shooting) and which is why I ignored them for the sake of this as I was focusing on the "Riptide" alone.

Why do i always hear people talking about Tau being able to ignore line of sight as though its a gamebreaking weapon?

SMS is Heavy4 S5 Ap5 30" - so what? theres very little that AP5 will pen to make the ignores cover part viable, and anyone shooting this out of line of sight means they arent firing their main gun at something across the table.

Tau cannot split their weapons on each individual suit unless its Shadowsun. Target Locks only say they can fire at a different target than the rest of the unit, says nothing about different weapons (like it used to, if i recall correctly).

I completely ignore the SMS except on hammerheads since its better than the burst and free. Dont think ive ever caused a wound with it that wasnt saved, even the few times i had it on my riptides.

 BoomWolf wrote:

"Markerlights are thrown around like candy", yea. like candy that costs almost a tactical marine, have have a statline worse then basic guardsman, so OP.

That analogue doesn't make sense as you pay for the ability to mark the opponent, thus enabling others to do nice tricks. Using same analogue, would you accept a grot with a lascannon but without any additional cost because it's just a sucky grot?

And to all who compare to the old codex, you seem to forgot that codex had one army list late fifth-take minimum troops because you have to despite them being completely worthless, spam 9 broadsides, fill the rest of the points with whatever you want, it hardly matters as nothing else is remotely worth the price.

Now here is some news, a codex with useless units in it, forcing a competitive build to spam the best units. At the same time you could ask were the broadsides too good to be able to do any task?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, another thing our Tau plays incorrectly: Target lock. So it is not only the Markerlights..

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous.

I like Tau, and the current Codex is a horrible adomination to the game.

You miss the fact that while pathfinders have worse-then-guardsman stats, they have triple the cost-and all the get is the fancy laser pointer.
A good deal? probably, its a good tool.
Too much? not at all, you pay for what you get.
Its not a "grot with a lascannon but without any additional cost", as you pay just as much as a IG HWT for that lascannon, but keep the grot stats.

Think of it as a level 0.25 psyker, because honestly that's what it is. the more you got, the more reliable and powerful the "psyker" becomes, but they can be twiddled down, and for each such (easy to make) kill, the "psyker" gets weaker. its a good buff, but nothing special compared to sorcerers, farseers and Liberians. just going differently about it.



Riptides aside, most of the tau codex has this sort of mismatch-really good guns on a platform that is not good enough to make proper use of it.
I won't say a crisis suit is BAD by any count, but comparing its suitability to its cost is nuts, it takes as much shooting as two marines (and as much CC as one and a half), but costs four or five times over.
Now, once mobility and firepower enter the game, they are getting good.
But cost/survival ratios on tau are rather lousy on most units. its part of the army's "thing"-compensate crappy soldiers with superior weapons.
The riptide...is questionably too good, I admit that part. though I still think its over-rated. other codecies got far more foul costs for some things. price mistakes happen in every codex.



As for "having useless models that require a single build to be competitive", that's what you seem to miss-the old broadside spam, with all glory of the old broadsides, was a casual list.
Yes, sapmming 9 of a completely OP unit was casual at best.
Because the entire rest of the codex was bad enough to drag it down. there was not a remotely decent option to be had anywhere except HS. there simply wasn't. once you advanced over 900 points (9 broadsides, minimum troops, minimal HQ and a few upgrades) every increase in point just made tau fall further behind. you had to pull off the cheesiest tricks possible to be on par with casual lists.
Now we got a proper codex, but used to mill out power and play cheesy, so there is a bleed of playing "too competitive" for the casual game at times. but a non-WAAC player knows to tone himself down when playing casual.



As for the target lock "mistake", it seems you tau makes alot of "mistakes". before I was suspicious, now it is obvious, your tau is a cheater.
Read the entire codex yourself, I am willing to bet he has made more such "mistakes". makes your complaints rational though, as you are dealing against abilities the tau never had.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Think of it as a level 0.25 psyker, because honestly that's what it is. the more you got, the more reliable and powerful the "psyker" becomes, but they can be twiddled down, and for each such (easy to make) kill, the "psyker" gets weaker. its a good buff, but nothing special compared to sorcerers, farseers and Liberians. just going differently about it.

You can't use that as a defence, as Tau can BB Eldar and benefit in a huge way.

As for the target lock "mistake", it seems you tau makes alot of "mistakes". before I was suspicious, now it is obvious, your tau is a cheater.

I am not the OP, markerlights were not used in so imbalanced way. Our Tau is a new player and probably just accidentally mixes old and new codex. Honest mistakes happen, at times we mix up 5th and 6th edition rules as we play both.

Backfire wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous.

I like Tau, and the current Codex is a horrible adomination to the game.

That is a very educational statement, lots of info to back your claim up there, you deserve an oscar for "most over-dramatic" actor.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous

Your statement is pretty offensive, just to let you know. I, for one, think that Tau are a great army now with limited, but effective options. The only problem I see right now is the vastly undercosted / overpowered Riptide that needs to be kept in line. While 1 is no problem, 2 are already a clear message and 3 are just breaking the game. If the Riptide gets somehow fixed, Tau is a great army book.

How is his statement offensive? Its pretty true.

Backfire wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:
This thread is divided by those that do not like the Tau and believe the army is a horrible abomination to the game and then those that are trying to defend the army it is rather ridiculous.

I like Tau, and the current Codex is a horrible adomination to the game.

I simply don't get this. You claim to like Tau and follow up with it's a horrible abomination.

Onto the tau hating.
I don't see what all the fuss is about with Tau. I play them exclusively and win and lose games to a variety of armies.

Just for the record does everyone know the codex only has
3 elite options
2 troops
1 transport
6 fast attack (2 are flyers)
and 4 heavy support

Beside HQ options we're not exactly presented with an over abundance of options to make up a list and our flyers are useless because our bomber might not actually start with a bomb and our fighter cant technically hit other flyers (the gun is underneath it).

So we got 1 unit that is powerful, like the drake or wraithknight from this edition or vendetta or dreadknight from last.

I think all this moaning stems from 'toys out the pram' syndrome.

You can get into assault with us.
You can survive our shooting.
You can take cover saves most of the time.
You can deepstrike
You have access to psykers that do the same sorts of things we don't (outside of allies which is a whole other mix of broken).

People clearly need to learn to play the game.