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So I am in the midst of Skyrim and I am torn on which faction to support. I know that High Elves have a tie to the Empire due to the Aldmeri Dominion, but is it unrealistic to have a high elf join the Stormcloaks?

The Aldmeri Dominion is nominally controlled by the Thalmor, who are actually not particularly popular even among the High Elves. It seems reasonable a player character could be a dissident from the Summerset Isles, or maybe your character has never been there and feels no loyalty to the Dominion.

Don't sweat it too much

It's Skyrim, nothing you do really matters. I mean, I love the game, but story-wise, it's utter garbage. You kill the FECKING EMPEROR and everyone is liek "Oh, ok, no probs, brah!". It's really, really bad.

Well the story also drops constant hints that the Medes aren't very popular either. The Council, while they might not all want him dead, is implied to be particularly unconcerned about the Dynasty losing power. It makes sense too, since with the fall of the Septims the Council had political power for about 20 years (might need to check that) before some merchant named Mede bought his way to being Emperor. It's a history that doesn't make for loyalty. What happens is a pretty cut and dry case of Collapsing Empire syndrome.

There are always going to be individuals bucking the trend in any large scale politically opposing factions. In Skyrim there are Nords who are perfectly happy with the Empire and can't stand Ulfric, and there are Imperials who would rather see the High King ruling the land again. So it's not a massive stretch to imagine a High Elf that feels aligned to the Stormcloaks' goals.

Nah. The Stormcloaks like Elves, or anybody really, that joins their cause and takes up arms for Ulfric. The Dark Elves in Windhelm are disliked partly because they won't help the Stormcloaks.

Eh. One of things that makes Ulfric compelling is that it's really hard to tell if he's racist or not. He makes a lot of disparaging comments directed at Elves but its unclear if he's really angry at the Thalmor or all Elves in general (and of course, segregation, though he has his excuse). There's no denying that the Storm Cloak movement itself has racist undertones.

I'd go further than undertones, the Stormcloaks do exhibit outright racism. Just talk to the Imperial Blacksmith on Whiterun after the Stormcloaks take it. The Stormcloak soldiers are highly reluctant to buy things from her, and only buy what little they do because her husband is a Nord. There's also that one Stormcloak general who talks about driving "the Elves" out of Skyrim.

Also, I would call Ulfric a bit of a racist, really. He has no regard for Elvish citizens who don't pledge themselves to his army. Also note that his city has not one, but two segregated areas for other races (the Argonians can't leave the docks). He could try and win his non-Nord citizens over with some nice gestures, make a speech about how all citizens need to work together against "the Imperial menace", but apparently he doesn't feel that they're worth the effort.

Here's a scenario.

It is easier for the Dominion to take over Skyrim if it ain't part of the Empire no more, and it'll also weaken the Empire itself. Win-win for the Thalmor and their Aldmeri Dominion.
So, they send an infiltrator to help dem Stormcloaks take Skyrim. He/she just happens to be you.

And yeah, Stormcloaks are racist bastards.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
It is easier for the Dominion to take over Skyrim if it ain't part of the Empire no more, and it'll also weaken the Empire itself. Win-win for the Thalmor and their Aldmeri Dominion.

Exactly. It's similar to how they handled Hammerfell and Elsweyr, really. Divide and conquer, they break the Empire down a province at a time so they can roll over anywhere they want at their leisure.

Anyways, as a High Elf in fancy Thalmor clothing, I joined the Imperials, and killed Ulfric with a Blades sword

I personally am not a fan of either. The empire seems to be a mere shadow of its former self and the Stormcloaks appear to be a racist faction. Ideally, I would join neither, but that's clearly not an option. Lol

 Troike wrote:


Also, I would call Ulfric a bit of a racist, really. He has no regard for Elvish citizens who don't pledge themselves to his army.

That's not racism. He has no regard for anyone who doesn't pledge to his cause. Plenty of his followers seem to have a Nord-supremacist view however.

Also in the intro, the Imperials were about to decapitate you. On my first playthrough there was no hesitation, Stormcloaks all the way (played a Dunmer).

Yeah the game didn't do much to make me reasonably see why my character, who is apparently completely oblivious to current events in Tamriel, would side with the Empire after they just decided to lop my head off for apparently just being somewhere some Stormcloaks also happened to be. And poor Lokir. Bro didn't deserve to go like that man.

 Havok210 wrote:
I personally am not a fan of either. The empire seems to be a mere shadow of its former self and the Stormcloaks appear to be a racist faction. Ideally, I would join neither, but that's clearly not an option. Lol

Oh, it absolutely is. You can completely ignore the Civil War questlines, and although there's a point in which you have to get involved to progress the Main Quest...

...you still don't have to pick a side. You're just getting them to stop fighting so you can resolve your business with the dragons.

MarsNZ wrote:
That's not racism. He has no regard for anyone who doesn't pledge to his cause. Plenty of his followers seem to have a Nord-supremacist view however.

True, he has little regard for anybody who doesn't bow down to him. And yet Windhelm, the city that he personally rules over, has not one, but two segregated areas for non-nords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-4hfg01l2w

His response when told of the Dark Elves being unhappy is to brush them off, and suspect them of treachery. He could easily make some effort to try and win them over or at least calm them down, but he instead doesn't see them as worth it. Even if it's not racially motivated, he still has a fairly low opinion of them.

MarsNZ wrote:
Also in the intro, the Imperials were about to decapitate you. On my first playthrough there was no hesitation, Stormcloaks all the way (played a Dunmer).

 LordofHats wrote:
Yeah the game didn't do much to make me reasonably see why my character, who is apparently completely oblivious to current events in Tamriel, would side with the Empire after they just decided to lop my head off for apparently just being somewhere some Stormcloaks also happened to be. And poor Lokir. Bro didn't deserve to go like that man.

That's a clever thing about the intro. At first, you're quite inclined to side against the Imperials. But as time goes on, you start to uncover evidence that the Stormcloaks are hardly good. Chiefly the Stormcloaks being overtly racist, the Thalmor viewing Ulfric Stormcloak as an asset and Ulfric being antagonistic towards Whiterun simply because they will not side with him. The Imperials meanwhile are tolerant of other races, and are expecting to fight the Thalmor in the near future (a fight which they stand the best chance of winning with Skyrim).

It seems apparent to me that the Stormcloaks are racists. In the TES world, that's not a man versus mer thing. They're talking about Nords particularly, not humans generally, when they say that Skyrim belongs to the Nords (e.g., not the Breton Forsworn). On the other hand, they don't seem bent on lording it over every other race throughout the world; that would be the Thalmor. So I put it to you, racism is a given in the TES world insofar as we're only talking about a belief that a certain race should be dominant in a certain geographical area, such as Nords in Skyrim or Dunmer on Morrowind.

For those of you who played Morrowind, you'll remember that the Dunmer are even worse than the Nords when it comes to this sort of racism. I felt sorry for the Dunmer of Windhelm until I remembered how I was treated everywhere throughout Vvardenfell. Also, Dunmer once commonly held non-Dunmer races (especially Argonians) as slaves. Ulfric may segregate the Dunmer into a ghetto (NB: non-Dunmer were once only allowed to live in/visit a single canton of the city of Vivec) but I don't see him, or any other Nord, taking Dunmer slaves.

Indeed, it appears that the Ayleids of old invented slavery when they enslaved the Nords. You guys have to remember that the Ayleids were overthrown by a human slave revolt, led by St. Alessia -- who in turn founded the First Cyrodilic Empire. The parallels to the agenda of the Third Aldmeri Dominion are obvious: the Thalmor are trying to turn back the clock, back to Ayleid times. They have an explicitly supremacist perspective on the entire world, not just the Valenwoood or the Summerset Isles.

Any High Elf PC that rejects the notion of an Elven "master race" enslaving all other races could easily join up with Ulfric, perhaps seeing (as the Stormcloaks tend to) the Empire as a mere puppet state of the Thalmor.

 Manchu wrote:
For those of you who played Morrowind, you'll remember that the Dunmer are even worse than the Nords when it comes to this sort of racism. I felt sorry for the Dunmer of Windhelm until I remembered how I was treated everywhere throughout Vvardenfell. Also, Dunmer once commonly held non-Dunmer races (especially Argonians) as slaves. Ulfric may segregate the Dunmer into a ghetto (NB: non-Dunmer were once only allowed to live in/visit a single canton of the city of Vivec) but I don't see him, or any other Nord, taking Dunmer slaves.

Just because Morrowind had plenty of racism doesn't legitimise the Nord racism towards the Dark Elves.

 Manchu wrote:
On the other hand, they don't seem bent on lording it over every other race throughout the world

I disagree. Their behaviour towards Whiterun's Imperial blacksmith strongly suggests otherwise.

 Troike wrote:
Just because Morrowind had plenty of racism doesn't legitimise the Nord racism towards the Dark Elves.

I'm pointing out that there's a history there, as well as a difference. The Dunmer are as xenophobic as they come in TES (only the Thalmor are more racist and only because they take it on the road). When their own homeland was devastated by the most recent eruption of Red Mountain, they fled into the lands of their former slaves. Yes, they are second-class citizens in Windhelm -- but they are citizens nonetheless and not, as according to their own practice, slaves by virtue of being "foreigners." Oh and by the way, a Nord king even gave them Solstheim to settle in the wake of the destruction of Vvardenfell.

 Troike wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
On the other hand, they don't seem bent on lording it over every other race throughout the world

I disagree. Their behaviour towards Whiterun's Imperial blacksmith strongly suggests otherwise.

Do you really not see the difference? On the one hand, the Thalmor came to Skyrim to stamp out the worship of Talos, the hero-god of humanity. On the other hand, Adrienne Avenicci is allowed to own and operate a shop in a city controlled by the Stormcloaks, even if the Stormcloaks themselves do not care to buy much from her. If this is a matter of her race, it is more than superficial: her father, after all, is the steward of Balgruf who sided with the Empire against Ulfric.

If the Stormcloaks were as racist as you seem to think, I doubt they would allow Adrienne to remain in Whiterun -- much less allowing her to not only own property but a business. Also, you may have forgotten or not seen it but Idolaf Battle-Born also commissions weapons for the Imperial army from Adrienne because Jorland Grey-Mane won't make them. I'd say the Stormcloaks are going pretty damn easy on her.

 Manchu wrote:
I'm pointing out that there's a history there, as well as a difference. The Dunmer are as xenophobic as they come in TES. When their own homeland was devastated by the most recent eruption of Red Mountain, they fled into the lands of their former slaves. Yes, they are second-class citizens in Windhelm -- but they are citizens nonetheless and not, as according to their own practice, slaves by virtue of being "foreigners." Oh and by the way, a Nord king even gave them Solstheim to settle in the wake of the destruction of Vvardenfell.

But the Dunmer in Windhelm aren't particularly racist, most seeming to just want fair treatment from the Nords or reacting to how the Nords have treated them. And again, the fact that Ulfric had treated them better than their ancestors treated other races does not legitimise the racism towards Dark Elves in any way.

And yes a Nord king gave them land, but Ulfric was not that king.

 Manchu wrote:
[If the Stormcloaks were as racist as you seem to think, I doubt they would allow Adrienne to remain in Whiterun -- much less allowing her to not only own property but a business. Also, you may have forgotten or not seen it but Idolaf Battle-Born also commissions weapons for the Imperial army from Adrienne because Jorland Grey-Mane won't make them. I'd say the Stormcloaks are going pretty damn easy on her.

Not exactly what I meant. You said that they weren't bent on "lording it over" other races, to which I present their treatment of Adrienne as a counter-point. A pretty clear case of them "lording it over" another race by overtly being reluctant to buy from her.

Of course the Dunmer of Windhelm aren't racists. They're a long way from home. Ulfric simply believes that Skyrim belongs to the Nords first and foremost; if anything, the Dunmer should be entirely sympathetic with this notion because it is exactly the same as their own cultural tradition regarding themselves and their homeland. Now that their homeland is wrecked, do they have the right to expect Nord culture should change to accommodate them? The fact that they are not simply enslaved indicates to me that Nord culture is already more accommodating than Dunmer culture.

Also, I know Ulfric didn't give them Solstheim. I was comparing the cultures. No Dunmer ruler ever gave non-Dunmer land for refuge. The Dunmer are lucky to be allowed within Windhelm's walls to begin with, given their past dealings with the Nords. While we're on the subject of the Dunmer's past dealings, do you even know why the Argonians are forced to live on the docks? Besides Nord racism (let's face it, this is the standard TES racism), it's to keep them away from the Dunmer, who they hate because of their long history as slaves. The Argonians hate the Dunmer so much that they invaded Morrowind after Red Mountain erupted again, while the Dunmer were down.

 Troike wrote:
Not exactly what I meant. You said that they weren't bent on "lording it over" other races, to which I present their treatment of Adrienne as a counter-point. A pretty clear case of them "lording it over" another race by overtly being reluctant to buy from her.

You're not following my point. I said the Nords consider Skyrim to be the homeland and perogative of the Nords first and foremost -- and that they don't, like the Thalmor, travel the length and breadth of Tamriel forcing an aggressive supremacist position on everyone on the face of Nirn. Even the most famous Nord, Hjalti/Talos/Tiber Septim, who did indeed conquer the world created a cosmopolitan and egalitarian empire. So what if the Nords, and particularly the Stormcloaks, believe Skyrim is theirs? This is no different from how each of the races feel about their various traditional territories.

On a Skyrim related note, does anyone know if you can disable DLC on the Xbox? I have Dawnguard, and I was going to complete that questline before really digging into the main questline of the game, but I had forgotten I needed the Elder Scroll from the main questline, and I don't really feel like going into Blackreach as a level 12 Nord Fighter.

You could uninstall the DLC but it might mess up your save. I'm not sure how uninstalling/disabling Dawnguard actually helps in your circumstances, however. Are you just weary of fighting the vampire threat on an ongoing basis?

 Manchu wrote:
Of course the Dunmer of Windhelm aren't racists. They're a long way from home. Ulfric simply believes that Skyrim belongs to the Nords first and foremost; if anything, the Dunmer should be entirely sympathetic with this notion because it is exactly the same as their own cultural tradition regarding themselves and their homeland. Now that their homeland is wrecked, do they have the right to expect Nord culture should change to accommodate them? The fact that they are not simply enslaved indicates to me that Nord culture is already more accommodating than Dunmer culture.

 Manchu wrote:
Also, I know Ulfric didn't give them Solstheim. I was comparing the cultures. No Dunmer ruler ever gave non-Dunmer land for refuge. The Dunmer are lucky to be allowed within Windhelm's walls to begin with, given their past dealings with the Nords. While we're on the subject of the Dunmer's past dealings, do you even know why the Argonians are forced to live on the docks? Besides Nord racism (let's face it, this is the standard TES racism), it's to keep them away from the Dunmer, who they hate because of their long history as slavers. The Argonians hate the Dunmer so much that they invaded Morrowind after Red Mountain erupted again, while the Dunmer were down.

But this isn't about cultures and their history, its about whether Ulfric and his army are racists. Dunmer taking slaves or a previous king giving Dark Elves land is irrelevnt to Stormcloak/Ulfric's behaviour now, since it doesn't really legitimise it. And though you make an infromed point about keeping the Dunmer and Argonians seperate, the Nord racism towards the Argonians is still just as wrong.

Also, I wouldn't say that racism is standard in TES. The Empire, a major power, seems to be largely free of it. Just look at this guy.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Legate_Fasendil

 Manchu wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Not exactly what I meant. You said that they weren't bent on "lording it over" other races, to which I present their treatment of Adrienne as a counter-point. A pretty clear case of them "lording it over" another race by overtly being reluctant to buy from her.

You're not following my point. I said the Nords consider Skyrim to be the homeland and perogative of the Nords first and foremost -- and that they don't, like the Thalmor, travel the length and breadth of Tamriel forcing an aggressive supremacist position on everyone on the face of Nirn. Even the most famous Nord, Hjalti/Talos/Tiber Septim, who did indeed conquer the world created a cosmopolitan and egalitarian empire. So what if the Nords, and particularly the Stormcloaks, believe Skyrim is theirs? This is no different from how each of the races feel about their various traditional territories.

They're free to feel that it's theirs, but that hardly justifies abusing non-nords who live there. And just because the Stormcloaks aren't going around executing people they don't like, like the Thalmor are doing, doesn't legitimise their own racism.

Skyrim manages to strandle the lines with its characters rather effectively.

Ulfric might segregate the Dunmer in Windhelm but his own claim is that this is to protect them from his followers who he openly admits he has trouble controlling (read between the lines "I don't approve but my agenda comes first so I let it slide"). And likewise the Argonians are segregated so they don't pick fights with the Dunmer. Racist? Possibly but he also has legitimate concerns in what he does making it hard to tell what matter more to him. Balgruf only sided with the Empire when pressed by Ulfric's absolutism. Balgruf himself isn't much more confident in the Empire than Ulfric, he just doesn't like Ulfric or think that joing the rebellion is good for Whiterun. Then we have Toryigg who himself was apparently open to the idea of declaring Independence but struggled with Skyrim's need for the Empire's resources. And that's not even mentioning the implications that Ulfric is some kind of Thalmor sleeper agent.

Likewise there's legitimate concerns with Ulfric and the Empire. The Empire is weak. Three provinces now answer to the Thalmor, Blackmarsh is in open rebellion (and the Hist are back in force), Morrowind has been all but destroyed and Hammerfell is in the middle of a war with the Thalmor with no support from the Empire itself. The Empire at this stage of the game consists of High Rock, a rebelling Skyrim, and economically devastated Cyrodill and Morrowind (and its key military heartlands have always been Hammerfell, Morrowind, Cyrodill, and Skyrim).

It's not absurd for Ulfric to see the world around him and conclude the Empire is dead and that he has to tear Skyrim from the yoke least the Empire drag his country down with it. At the same time the Empire has a point. The provinces can't stand against the Thalmor alone and its not like the Empire plans to keep the White-Gold Concordant going forever. Skyrim plays this dynamic masterfully and this is partly why I loathe that the main storyline game was about Dragons and not about the larger conflict in Tamriel. The Civil War is on its face a much better story but just doesn't get the treatment it deserved. I keep holding out for a DLC that will conclude the story for us but apparently that's not happening.

Also, I wouldn't say that racism is standard in TES. The Empire, a major power, seems to be largely free of it. Just look at this guy.

The Empire is racist. Being a Khajit, Orc, or Argonian in the Empire is like being a young black kid in 1970's Detroit. People might not arrest you on sight, but you can probably rest assured they don't like you and automatically assume you're doing drugs or about to steal something. Unless your an Orc, in which case people just don't like you (Orcs in Oblivion started out with almost 0 approval from non-Orc NPC's).

Though in usual video game fashion, Skyrim undermines this by making the Khajit caravans so shady you'd be an idiot not to suspect them of something.

 Manchu wrote:
You could uninstall the DLC but it might mess up your save. I'm not sure how uninstalling/disabling Dawnguard actually helps in your circumstances, however. Are you just weary of fighting the vampire threat on an ongoing basis?

Yes I am I guess I mostly don't want to have townspeople killed while I'm off killing dragons...

 LordofHats wrote:
Balgruf himself isn't much more confident in the Empire than Ulfric, he just doesn't like Ulfric or think that joing the rebellion is good for Whiterun.

I dunno, when he does side with them he's very open about the mutual advantages of joining them. He gets good trade, and the Empire gets tough warriors.

 LordofHats wrote:
Then we have Toryigg who himself was apparently open to the idea of declaring Independence but struggled with Skyrim's need for the Empire's resources.

I think it says something about Ulfric that his reaction to this was to murder Toryigg in an unfair fight instead of trying to win the man over.

 LordofHats wrote:
And that's not even mentioning the implications that Ulfric is some kind of Thalmor sleeper agent.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

Basically: he's not really in their agent at present, but they view him as an asset due to his attacking of the Empire.

 LordofHats wrote:
Likewise there's legitimate concerns with Ulfric and the Empire. The Empire is weak. Three provinces now answer to the Thalmor, Blackmarsh is in open rebellion (and the Hist are back in force), Morrowind has been all but destroyed and Hammerfell is in the middle of a war with the Thalmor with no support from the Empire itself. The Empire at this stage of the game consists of High Rock, a rebelling Skyrim, a economically devastated Cyrodill and Morrowind.

While the Empire is not at its best, they're still a far better option than the Stormcloaks for the overall situation. The Empire are pretty much the only force that can legitimately challenge the Tlamor, and a Stormcloak victory means a greatly weakened Empire and an even more divided opposition for the Thalmor. Also, Hammerfell isn't at war with the Thalmor anymore. They signed a peace treaty before the game starts.

 LordofHats wrote:
I keep holding out for a DLC that will conclude the story for us but apparently that's not happening.

Yeah, the end of the DLC is pretty sad. But apparently they weren't making enough money off of 'em, so that's our lot.

But still, Skyrim has a stupidly big modding scene, so we'll never be short of new content.

 Troike wrote:
doesn't legitimise their own racism.

You keep using the word "legitimise" but against what standard? Take a look at a map of Tamriel and you will see what the baseline position on racisim actually is in the TES world: a land for each of the races, except the dispossessed Orsimer. Now, who crosses that line: traditional Dunmer culture and the Thalmor. The Stormcloak rebellion is fighting for Nord dominance of Skyrim. The marginalization of non-Nords is an inescapable condition of that goal; even as it stands, there are no non-Nord jarls in Skyrim; cf., Count Andel Indarys. (At the same time, the rise of the Empire certainly marginalized non-Nibenese as to the power of Imperials in other provinces; e.g., General Tullius's role in Skyrim.)

The question really is, does the segregation of the Dunmer into the Grey Quarter rise above this baseline racism? I'm not so sure. For one thing, Windhelm is the only city in Skyrim that has a substantial non-Nord population. All we can do is compare it against Cyrodiil during the Oblivion crisis, which is hardly instructive given that the real driving force of racism in the Fourth Age (the White Gold Concordat) did not even exist yet.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
You could uninstall the DLC but it might mess up your save. I'm not sure how uninstalling/disabling Dawnguard actually helps in your circumstances, however. Are you just weary of fighting the vampire threat on an ongoing basis?

Yes I am I guess I mostly don't want to have townspeople killed while I'm off killing dragons...

It's not so bad. Those Vampire attacks are basically one Vampire running into the town and getting violent. The guards cut them down before any citizens get hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
You keep using the word "legitimise" but against what standard? Take a look at a map of Tamriel and you will see what the baseline position on racisim actually is in the TES world: a land for each of the races, except the dispossessed Orsimer. Now, who crosses that line: traditional Dunmer culture and the Thalmor. The Stormcloak rebellion is fighting for Nord dominance of Skyrim. The marginalization of non-Nords is an inescapable condition of that goal; even as it stands, there are no non-Nord jarls in Skyrim; cf., Count Andel Indarys. (At the same time, the rise of the Empire certainly marginalized non-Nibenese as to the power of Imperials in other provinces; e.g., General Tullius's role in Skyrim.)

The question really is, does the segregation of the Dunmer into the Grey Quarter rise above this baseline racism? I'm not so sure. For one thing, Windhelm is the only city in Skyrim that has a substantial non-Nord population. All we can do is compare it against Cyrodiil during the Oblivion crisis, which is hardly instructive given that the real driving force of racism in the Fourth Age (the White Gold Concordat) did not even exist yet.

You seem to be saying that Nord racism towards the Dunmer is not as bad, or even partially legitimised because other cultures have racist elements in the past. "Other people were doing it" is not really a justification for the Nordic abuse of the Dark Elves in Windhelm. We know that Tamriel can do better, we've seen the Empire's tolerance towards other races.

 Troike wrote:

I think it says something about Ulfric that his reaction to this was to murder Toryigg in an unfair fight instead of trying to win the man over.

The only thing unfair about the fight is that Toryigg never stood a chance at winning (but Ulfric clearly knew this).

Basically: he's not really in their agent at present, but they view him as an asset due to his attacking of the Empire.

Oh it goes deeper than that. Some of the Thalmor NPC's (the Embassy and the one in Markarth I think) if you ask them about Ulfric kind of play it as though Ulfric is a puppet tied to their strings. It's never overtly stated but there are lines in the game to the effect that Ulfric is unwittingly acting at the behest of the Thalmor to further weaken the Empire. It can be read as Ulfric just being a pawn on the game board who came about by convenience or as something more sinister.

While the Empire is not at its best, they're still a far better option than the Stormcloaks for the overall situation. The Empire are pretty much the only force that can legitimately challenge the Tlamor, and a Stormcloak victory means a greatly weakened Empire and an even more divided opposition for the Thalmor. Also, Hammerfell isn't at war with the Thalmor anymore. They signed a peace treaty before the game starts.

Hammerfell is at war with the Thalmor. They signed the treaty but there are overt resistance movements in Hammerfell and while the conflict has lapsed into a sort of Cold War during the events of Skyrim, its obvious that Hammerfell is ready to start a fight. If anything, Skyrim breaking from the Empire could cause mass uprising in Hammerfell and Elsywer and Ulfric could just say he's doing the Empire's job because the Empire won't. Nothing stops the provinces from forming an alliance against the Thalmor. Though undoubtedly the Empire would be more organized but the Empire doesn't inspire much confidence that they're really moving to solve this crisis.

But still, Skyrim has a stupidly big modding scene, so we'll never be short of new content.

There are some cool (but glitchy) mods for the Civil War. One does a total overhaul complete with epic scale battles and skirmishes when walking along the road.

You seem to be saying that Nord racism towards the Dunmer is not as bad, or even partially legitimised because other cultures have racist elements in the past. "Other people were doing it" is not really a justification for the Nordic abuse of the Dark Elves in Windhelm. We know that Tamriel can do better, we've seen the Empire's tolerance towards other races.

It's not justification but context. We can look back at the Roman Empire and see some pretty bad racism but seeing as how everyone in 100 AD was racist, it's not a very useful criticism. Same thing with the Nords. Every culture on Tamriel is racist and nationalist in some way. Pointing out that the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists isn't wrong so much as irrelevant because everyone else is too.

The Empire's tolerance only goes so far. They don't go to Morrowind and demand the Dunmer stop enslaving the Argonians (which the Dunmer are doing by the way by waging proxy war against another province) and the Empire certainly doesn't seem to have a problem with the rather slanted practice of enslaving Argonians more than the other races or the segregation and marginalization rampantly directed against the Orcs in High Rock.