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Wrote this 3 times, everytime it internet 'stopped responding', and each time it was long, detailed and characterful. But now im sad, so it will be short.

How can wood elves kill Doomwheels and Large, unbreakable, stupid leadership re-rollable hordes? He runs 2 Doomwheels and like 3 hordes with a Warlord and Bsb, as well as 2 level 2 warlock scroll cadies with warp lightning. Hordes are backed up with mortar things that can fire into combat. Shooting doomwheel is pointless with T6 and 4+ save, avoiding it is hard with random movement and when being boxed in by several cheap walls of fur. Any idea on how to win this, I have access to most wood elf units. Thx

**Edit** Idea, just finished my sisters of twilight on eagle, and thought maybe they could be the perfect unit! One of the sisters bows, it has an effect that if hit by it, the model has to take a strength test on lowest, or it can't move. Doomwheel is crewed by rats, at strength 2, so it would likely immobilise one, while the other sisters commits good old fashioned carnage with her small blast bow shooting into horde while his only shooting that would be a problem is Zzap (avoidable with 20'' movement) and warp lightning spell, But it may leave my woefully under magiked in the lord department. A good idea maybe?

Do WE have something that can snipe? If so, snipe dem characters dead.

We do, kinda. We can have a character that can have sniper, as well as a second sniper sprite. Both hit on 3's, and wound on 4's. But they allow armour and He is packing at least a 3+ save.

To be honest, us woodies are always going to struggle against large hordes. The only tactic I can think of is to focus entirely on one unit at a time- WEs can put out a hefty amount of attacks with its combat units so massed shooting followed by massed charges. If the three hordes are in a line, hit the middle one with Naestra's arrow and charge one of the units at the side perhaps so the middle gets in the way of the one of the other side.

As for the doomwheels, don't underestimate shooting. You'll need a six to wound admittedly, but don't forget that each unsaved wound might make it go out of control! Amber Spear from the Beast lore would probably also go down well.
Good luck (which is always the best of tactics...)

Az

Skaven are the one matchup where treekin and treemen are like:


(DISCLAIMER, THE PICTURE MAY BE EXAGGERATING.)

If you can deal with the cannons.

Feed a big unit of treekin skavenslaves, and they will eat them. Dual Trees, and an ancient can go up against abombs fairly well, and can eat units too.

Just have enough shooting to take down the gutter runners and war machines.


As for how to deal with doomwheels, your answer is budgie nobles with 3+ wards and great weapons. They can go in, beat it, break it, and run it down. Rinse, and repeat.


If you can deal with the toys, the blocks are surprisingly easy to deal with. Shoot them, until they're manageable. Then Dwellers.

Or take beasts and control the pace of the game with Curse. Take out war machines with flock. WIldform the living daylights out of things, and savage beast trees.

Except its all but impossible to take out there Cannons or Doomwheels before they obliterate any big tree unit. The Doomwheel shoots 3 shots, each of which is a variable strength, that has a 1/2 chance to wound the treekin or treeman easily, then each wound does d3 wounds and allows no saves. Those trees have no chance.

But I guess budgie nobles a budgie noble could work, my only concern is his low number of attacks, but I guess its better then my spirit sword idea. Also, how can flock hurt cannons when it wounds on 6's?

I once watched a WE player win a game against gunline dwarves by shooting enough arrows and rolling enough sixes to kill all of the dwarf players cannons. He then shot and fled charges for the rest of the game and win on points.

All you have to do is roll a 6 to wound it and if it fails the 4+ it could careen out of control.

I played a game once where my opponent surfes his forest in front of his glade guard, I charge the glade guard with my doomwheel and fail to break him. He then uses the spell that does D6 Str 5 hits 3 times killing the wheel...

There are ways to do it. Don't get stuck thinking it's in xlose combat though

This may just be my area of expertise (see upcoming batrep )

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Skaven are the one matchup where treekin and treemen are like:


(DISCLAIMER, THE PICTURE MAY BE EXAGGERATING.)

Firstly, Exactly what thedarkavenger said! With the exception of stormvermin horde with flaming/piercing banner treemen/kin will wear down any other horde (my skaven opponent is very fond of giant rat hordes and monks w/ plague banner as well), the treeman especially as he wastes so much of your opponent's frontage and is very hard to get another unit in the side of while he's fighting a horde (more on that in a mo). Also consider they're hitting you on fours (remember you're opponent must take fear checks! eventually he will fail some!) and most of the time wounding on 6's against T-men/kin (again, the exception being tooled up vermin horde, again, avoid), even with death frenzy or bless with filth your armour and ward saves should carry you through these fights. I however will put neither of these units within 100" of an H-bomb if i can help it, the H-bomb will go first , do a butt-load of str6 attacks, even without its freaking impact hits, which reduce a Treeman's armour save to 6+ and, if it has warpstone spikes (which it should do if your opponent knows he's fighting wood elves), will ignore your forest spirit save, in return you only need 3's and 3/4's to hurt but it will get its full 4+ regen against all your return attacks. 2 treemen/kin units maybe, but certainly not 1 on its own.

Second, playing big hordes and long buses actually plays into the one thing woodies do best, outmaneuvering. Hopefully somewhere around the middle of the table will be some impassible terrain (if you get to choose deployment zone always give your opponent the side with more of this in their way!) work around this and use your (double) fleeing to clog up the army as it tries to move around. This is seriously not hard if your opponent is running multiple hordes/buses. Do you know how much room a 5x8 bus needs around its rear to wheel around? And getting a horde into the flank of an already engaged treeman for example takes at least one turn of maneuvring to get around the corner of whatever they're fighting. If you can pin one horde in place you have created another big piece of impassible terrain that your opponent with his non-skirmishing army will have difficulty moving around while you will not. Also, the cheap shot way, dwellers, i hardly ever take life (because, for a start, the signiature spell is absolutely pointless in a wood elf army, not a good start when choosing a magic lore), but if you do and can get dwellers off on a horde then a combo charge from wardancer/dryads will finish them off. Finally remember that the more hordes/bigger army your opponent has the harder it is to keep units in the general's leadership bubble, exploit this by spamming them with fear/panic tests on their chaff (lacking the extra Ld from 'strength in numbers') and things outside the general/bsb bubble, get rid of the smaller units that can actually catch you first and you can run rings around hordes all day long.

As for the big monsters. I know exactly what you mean about random movement units, they literally create a 12" exclusion zone around them for armies that rely on charge reactions. Hellpits can be pin-cushioned to death without too much trouble. Have the flaming banner on a unit of GG (with BSB with HoDA in it too if you like!) and concentrate your fire. A 30" range allows a lot of your GG to hit a hellpit from wherever they've deployed, if it's coming at you, and once you've got a wound or two off it move up to short range to finish it off. If you can strip its regen then all your bows hitting on 3's and wounding on 5's (at short range) will bring it down. It's a heart in mouth moment when you move all your GG up that close, but if you're doing the business on 3's then 5's the odds really aren't that bad. Also, amber spear in lore of beasts is a must if you are facing units like this (perhaps a ruby ring combo to strip regen from H-bombs first, haven't tried this myself but worth a go). Doomwheels are obviously harder to shoot (but more vulnerable to amber spear) But remember your T-men/kin have a decent charge range, without impact hits and its lightning shot the doomwheel doesn't have a lot going for it, if its random movement leaves it stranded, pounce. One last unit that can be dangerous to these things, wild riders, they have a huge charge range, are str5 on the charge and get an extra attack and will still be striking first in the next turn (if they're still alive! all doomwheel attacks do a random amount of hits/attacks, so really a gamble), not as good as other options but again if you can strip a few wounds off these things first it's not a bad shout. See also wyssans-buffed dryads and wardancers (on the charge) for a source of str5 attacks. As darkavenger (again) said remember DW's have a max Ld of 7, if you can beat it in combat, by only 1, you will most likely break it. I'm not sold on the eagle noble tactic, i don't like the thought of all the (admittedly low strength) attacks coming first against a model with 2 wounds, even with the 3+ ward, but I haven't tried it myself.

The mortar can only intentionally shoot into combat with slaves, not and of his other units btw. Don't know if that's how you were playing it from your OP.

Skaven aren't a great match up for wood elves, all the above will only give you a chance, not the advantage really! But good luck, and remember that that 1 game in 5 you win with the elves is more satisfying than the 4/5 a cheesy skaven army will win!

 Uzi Toting Monkeys wrote:
This may just be my area of expertise (see upcoming batrep )

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Skaven are the one matchup where treekin and treemen are like:


(DISCLAIMER, THE PICTURE MAY BE EXAGGERATING.)

Firstly, Exactly what thedarkavenger said! With the exception of stormvermin horde with flaming/piercing banner treemen/kin will wear down any other horde (my skaven opponent is very fond of giant rat hordes and monks w/ plague banner as well), the treeman especially as he wastes so much of your opponent's frontage and is very hard to get another unit in the side of while he's fighting a horde (more on that in a mo). Also consider they're hitting you on fours (remember you're opponent must take fear checks! eventually he will fail some!) and most of the time wounding on 6's against T-men/kin (again, the exception being tooled up vermin horde, again, avoid), even with death frenzy or bless with filth your armour and ward saves should carry you through these fights. I however will put neither of these units within 100" of an H-bomb if i can help it, the H-bomb will go first , do a butt-load of str6 attacks, even without its freaking impact hits, which reduce a Treeman's armour save to 6+ and, if it has warpstone spikes (which it should do if your opponent knows he's fighting wood elves), will ignore your forest spirit save, in return you only need 3's and 3/4's to hurt but it will get its full 4+ regen against all your return attacks. 2 treemen/kin units maybe, but certainly not 1 on its own.

Second, playing big hordes and long buses actually plays into the one thing woodies do best, outmaneuvering. Hopefully somewhere around the middle of the table will be some impassible terrain (if you get to choose deployment zone always give your opponent the side with more of this in their way!) work around this and use your (double) fleeing to clog up the army as it tries to move around. This is seriously not hard if your opponent is running multiple hordes/buses. Do you know how much room a 5x8 bus needs around its rear to wheel around? And getting a horde into the flank of an already engaged treeman for example takes at least one turn of maneuvring to get around the corner of whatever they're fighting. If you can pin one horde in place you have created another big piece of impassible terrain that your opponent with his non-skirmishing army will have difficulty moving around while you will not. Also, the cheap shot way, dwellers, i hardly ever take life (because, for a start, the signiature spell is absolutely pointless in a wood elf army, not a good start when choosing a magic lore), but if you do and can get dwellers off on a horde then a combo charge from wardancer/dryads will finish them off. Finally remember that the more hordes/bigger army your opponent has the harder it is to keep units in the general's leadership bubble, exploit this by spamming them with fear/panic tests on their chaff (lacking the extra Ld from 'strength in numbers') and things outside the general/bsb bubble, get rid of the smaller units that can actually catch you first and you can run rings around hordes all day long.

As for the big monsters. I know exactly what you mean about random movement units, they literally create a 12" exclusion zone around them for armies that rely on charge reactions. Hellpits can be pin-cushioned to death without too much trouble. Have the flaming banner on a unit of GG (with BSB with HoDA in it too if you like!) and concentrate your fire. A 30" range allows a lot of your GG to hit a hellpit from wherever they've deployed, if it's coming at you, and once you've got a wound or two off it move up to short range to finish it off. If you can strip its regen then all your bows hitting on 3's and wounding on 5's (at short range) will bring it down. It's a heart in mouth moment when you move all your GG up that close, but if you're doing the business on 3's then 5's the odds really aren't that bad. Also, amber spear in lore of beasts is a must if you are facing units like this (perhaps a ruby ring combo to strip regen from H-bombs first, haven't tried this myself but worth a go). Doomwheels are obviously harder to shoot (but more vulnerable to amber spear) But remember your T-men/kin have a decent charge range, without impact hits and its lightning shot the doomwheel doesn't have a lot going for it, if its random movement leaves it stranded, pounce. One last unit that can be dangerous to these things, wild riders, they have a huge charge range, are str5 on the charge and get an extra attack and will still be striking first in the next turn (if they're still alive! all doomwheel attacks do a random amount of hits/attacks, so really a gamble), not as good as other options but again if you can strip a few wounds off these things first it's not a bad shout. See also wyssans-buffed dryads and wardancers (on the charge) for a source of str5 attacks. As darkavenger (again) said remember DW's have a max Ld of 7, if you can beat it in combat, by only 1, you will most likely break it. I'm not sold on the eagle noble tactic, i don't like the thought of all the (admittedly low strength) attacks coming first against a model with 2 wounds, even with the 3+ ward, but I haven't tried it myself.

The mortar can only intentionally shoot into combat with slaves, not and of his other units btw. Don't know if that's how you were playing it from your OP.

Skaven aren't a great match up for wood elves, all the above will only give you a chance, not the advantage really! But good luck, and remember that that 1 game in 5 you win with the elves is more satisfying than the 4/5 a cheesy skaven army will win!

This thread is someone falling in the trap of the skaven book. The thing is a rules abombination. (Heh.) Seriously. 2 Eagle Nobles with 3+ wards, and a highborn with the Armour of Destiny, all wielding great weapons give you the ability to take on Doomwheels and win. This leaves the treekin unit to smash up his infantry. I also recommend you take a look at lore of dwellers. Skaven love it, a lot. So much that they die.