Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Playing a 1750 local tournament in September. Had a couple of games against my mates noise marines and hell drakes. Needless to say they didn't go to well, although I think they would have had a better chance if he did not go first in both games (he stole the initiative grumble grumble) 38 Bikes, 10 of which are black knights and 1 Sammy. Up to 16 separate units which can spread out if scary AP3 ignore cover stuff comes calling. What does Dakka think?

HQ
Sammuel
5 man Ravenwing command squad, Grenade Launcher, Apothecary, Standard of devastation
Troops
6 man RW attack squad, 2 meltas, melta bomb on sergeant, Attack bike Multi Melta
6 man RW attack squad, 2 meltas, melta bomb on sergeant, Attack bike Multi Melta
6 man RW attack squad, 2 meltas, melta bomb on sergeant, Attack bike Multi Melta
6 man RW attack squad, 2 meltas, melta bomb on sergeant, Attack bike Multi Melta
Fast Attack
Dark Shroud
5 man Black Knight Squad. Grenade Launcher, Melta bombs
= 1750

Jason you have NOTHING in your list to deal with flyers ..

Oh the havoc a hell-turkey would wreak.

 sing your life wrote:
Jason you have NOTHING in your list to deal with flyers ..

I think his plan is to run and hide from fliers rather then fight them.

IMO regular black knight squads should be run in groups of 6, that way 2 launchers would be useable to make that happen drop one from your cmd squad, also a PFG would work better then a darkshroud but both would work better. A techie on a bike with pfg is the cheapest way to come about that. your AA could be covered using tlink plasma but not as useful as scouts w/ quad gun,other than that looks solid.

wow. fast responses guys cheers.

I find BK's kill flyers pretty good they can usually tuck in behind and T/L plasmas do the rest. I playtested a libby with a PFG in the test games I mentioned vs the helldrake and the Ignore cover weapon wielding noise marines (a really bad match up I'm sure you'll agree) The PFG was useless. He just killed other units, its only got a 3" range. What I found though is that by spreading out he could only kill about 5 or six bikes (at best) with the turkey a turn. This list can lose 20 and still be pretty effective.

I could drop one bike from the command squad to unlock the 2nd grenade launcher. When I played on Sunday the grenade didn't hit once.

Many thanks for the fast responses.

One thing I would consider adding is some other kind of troops. If you are looking for a true fluffy solid ravenwing list then by all means forget the other troops but if you are willing to add some tactical marines I would do so. They will be good for holding backfield objectives. Another thing to consider is if you are going to bring the standard of devastation and you are worried about the helldrakes then you are wasting 65 points. With only a 6" range trying to spread out defeats the purpose of staying tight to get the benifits from the banner. Remember plasma talons get no benifit from the Standard of devastation. Here is an example of a 2k list i am going to try out soon which is a fluffy list designed around the common forces talked about in the ravenwing book.

HQ
Sammael 200
Interrogater chaplain on bike 130
Librarian level 2 on bike 120

Troops
RW bikes x6 Meltagun, plasmagun, meltabombs 246
Attackbike multimelta

RW bikes x6 Meltagun, plasmagun, meltabombs 191

RW bikes x6 Meltagun, plasmagun, meltabombs 191

Tactical squad x10 Flamer, heavy bolter, melta bombs 160

Tactical squad x10 Plasma gun, missile launcher, meltabombs 175

Fast attack
Black knights x5 grenade launcher 210

Ravenwing support
heavy bolter, typhoon missile launcher x3


The obvious choice to cut down the points in this list to 1750 is one of the characters and a tactical squad. In this list I have 28 bikes +sammael going foward. 20 marines to hold my deployment zone and 3 speeders to harass units as much as I can

Yes but if your already sing dakka banner you should already be pretty dang close

Tech Marines give a 2+ save tank to help with Helldrake match up. Also the FnP banner further improves this match up and other poor match ups. With Tau and Eldar about there's a lot of ignores cover out there.

Personally I'd take more Black Knights less normal bikers. You're going to be low model count no matter what I'd make them the best models you can have.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Tech Marines give a 2+ save tank to help with Helldrake match up. Also the FnP banner further improves this match up and other poor match ups. With Tau and Eldar about there's a lot of ignores cover out there.

Personally I'd take more Black Knights less normal bikers. You're going to be low model count no matter what I'd make them the best models you can have.

I agree with what your saying but I'm using the HH bikes as my BK's can I cannot justify spending any more money on this army. I've tried the FNP banner as well, and I do like it but putting out 112 T/L bolter shots at 24" is too good to miss. With this army if I go first I tend to win if I go second I tend to lose. The techmarine or PFG can only realistically protect one squad. Hell drakes will just target a different squad. That's why multiple small squads are better, less flamer hits and less casualties. Against the majority of ignore cover stuff I'll still get my armour save.

I suppose what I'm saying is that having fought the hell drake twice over the weekend with a bike army, its not actually as big a deal as the internet makes out. It'll kill bikes but only if they are not hiding in combat, and even when if does it can only kill 5-6 given ideal circumstances provided you take MSU.

 namiel wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Jason you have NOTHING in your list to deal with flyers ..

I think his plan is to run and hide from fliers rather then fight them.

I don't know 'bout you, but I don't think this list could hide from 3 Hell-turkeys.

 sing your life wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Jason you have NOTHING in your list to deal with flyers ..

I think his plan is to run and hide from fliers rather then fight them.

I don't know 'bout you, but I don't think this list could hide from 3 Hell-turkeys.

If he combat squads then they can only kill 3 marines with the flamer.

If he gets behind the drakes then he's fine too, because he can then rip open the rear armour with plasma talons, or even glance with mass bolters.

I see this working well against drakes.

Definitely keep the Ravenwing troop choices, adding normal tac marines is a waste.

Some suggestions: although these as simply alternatives, your list should work fine as it is.

As some have said, tech marines could be added to gain 2+ saves vs heldrakes, though they are quite expensive for what they do. Can also hold a PFG.

A librarian is cheap, can add some wounds to the command squad, gives a little psychic protections, and can hold the PFG for a 4++ save for those heldrakes.

If you take a librarian then you open the option to gain another command squad. If you do this then you should take the ravenwing standard, for 15 points points it allows more tactical options with hit and run


Personally I run a list similar to this, though I only run 4 RAC's not 5. and the Black knights are optional. In place of these I will have a librarian (or chaplain in fun games), or mortis contemptor dreadnoughts if I really need anti-air.