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Oh, I'm not disputing that aspect of the statement - I know that there was some dissension around splitting the Chapters - I think there was an incident where an IF ship was attacked by an Imperial Fleet ship, but Dorn relented to avoid another civil war. No, the part I was disputing was that Vulkan was actually there in person.

Just as a note, the first quote is kinda fethed up on two points:

A) Why would Guilliman not agree with splitting up the chapters - it was his idea!

B) Why would Ferrus Mannus back the Ultramarines - at this point in time I don't think he would be thinking straight. Probably because he was headless and very, very much dead...

inb4 they are defeated by being shattered in shards.

Yes, how can Ferrus back anyone when he got his head removed years previously?!

I think we know what happened to Vulkan now.

He decided he was fed up with how the universe was going. So he dismembered himself and left the parts around the galaxy in "9 relics". So that when his sons find all of them and bring them together he will be reborn.

He must have figured that one of two things would happen. Either humanity would be wiped out and therefore he would sleep forever. OR that after doing a Rip van Winkle humanity would still be around and need his compassion to rebuild.

I was going to skip this book (I've skipped the past several HH books); but I may go ahead and get it this week. Sounds good.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Oh, I'm not disputing that aspect of the statement - I know that there was some dissension around splitting the Chapters - I think there was an incident where an IF ship was attacked by an Imperial Fleet ship, but Dorn relented to avoid another civil war. No, the part I was disputing was that Vulkan was actually there in person.

Just as a note, the first quote is kinda fethed up on two points:

A) Why would Guilliman not agree with splitting up the chapters - it was his idea!

B) Why would Ferrus Mannus back the Ultramarines - at this point in time I don't think he would be thinking straight. Probably because he was headless and very, very much dead...

Guilliman was not against it, Russ and Vulkan was.

@clively - You sir.... are not as stupid as the rest of us.

To be honest, that doesn't seem like a bad idea. Assuming his body only regenerates should it's components be in close proximity, then it would certainly work.However, there's only one problem - some of the artifacts were already in the Salamanders possession before Vulkan left, such as his spear and gauntlet, and they wouldn't contain a body part. Similarly, Kesares mantle wouldn't contain his DNA as it's a Firedrake's skin.

That said, brownie points for trying.

EDIT@ Mag-El - I know, but look at Pilau Rice's quotes from IA on the last page.

Enron wrote:
Not all Primarchs are true immortals in the sense they cannot be killed. Ferrus Mannus/Sanguinious/ possibly papa smurf and Horus are indications that primarchs can in fact "die".

What makes Vulcan unique amongst the Primarchs is that he is truly unkillable ie. complete dismemberment will not stop him from healing.

There is also fluff indicating that some Primarchs are not immortal. I believe there is a passage in the space wolves codex where Leman Russ indicates that his "Lifes breath is almost spent..." What that means is up for interpretation however I think that he was saying that he was really old and was going to die soon.

Its worth pointing out that Horus had his soul completely destroyed by the Emp when the Emp finally had enough of him, that's be similar to the other known ways to kill a perpetual, so it is possible that Horus could have been a perpetual.

It'd be worth looking at how the other Primarchs died, Manus was killed by the demon possessing Fulgrim at the last minute, so its possible that the demon got his hands on Manus's soul. What about the other confirmed deaths of the loyalist Primarchs?

Looky Likey wrote:

Enron wrote:
Not all Primarchs are true immortals in the sense they cannot be killed. Ferrus Mannus/Sanguinious/ possibly papa smurf and Horus are indications that primarchs can in fact "die".

What makes Vulcan unique amongst the Primarchs is that he is truly unkillable ie. complete dismemberment will not stop him from healing.

There is also fluff indicating that some Primarchs are not immortal. I believe there is a passage in the space wolves codex where Leman Russ indicates that his "Lifes breath is almost spent..." What that means is up for interpretation however I think that he was saying that he was really old and was going to die soon.

Its worth pointing out that Horus had his soul completely destroyed by the Emp when the Emp finally had enough of him, that's be similar to the other known ways to kill a perpetual, so it is possible that Horus could have been a perpetual.

It'd be worth looking at how the other Primarchs died, Manus was killed by the demon possessing Fulgrim at the last minute, so its possible that the demon got his hands on Manus's soul. What about the other confirmed deaths of the loyalist Primarchs?

Why does it have to be loyalist Primarchs? Curze was killed on his knees by Space Elf.

Konrad Curze was killed by a Callidus Assassin - M'shen. Looking on Lexicanum, whilst it doesn't say M'Shen is a human, I doubt she would be an Eldar considering the highly Xenophobic nature of the IoM.

Mah bad, I could have sworn that the eldar Lord in Void Stalker mentioned killing Curze to Soul Hunter just before the final encounter in the book.

I've never read it, (Lexicanum gives me the general gist of it) but I wouldn't put it past the Eldar to sow misdirection just as a boast while he kills Talos. However, seeing as Talos has spent his life hunting down M'Shen, it's proabably safe to say it was M'Shen who killed Curze.

Looky Likey wrote:
Its worth pointing out that Horus had his soul completely destroyed by the Emp when the Emp finally had enough of him, that's be similar to the other known ways to kill a perpetual, so it is possible that Horus could have been a perpetual.

It'd be worth looking at how the other Primarchs died, Manus was killed by the demon possessing Fulgrim at the last minute, so its possible that the demon got his hands on Manus's soul. What about the other confirmed deaths of the loyalist Primarchs?

The Horus thing was about leaving the Chaos Gods nothing of Horus to start over with. As souls seem to go to the warp as they die they might pick Horus out. As Vulkan Lives makes it sound its only some powerfull psyker relic from the Emperor that could truly kill Vulkan. Almost nothing is on the power scale of the Emperor, so that rules out a lot of ways for Vulkan to die.

Vulkan seems to be the only exceptional Primarch in the department of abilities around death/resurrection. While he survives almost everything (seemingly he still does) the others got killed in ways ranging from killed by the vessel fof the power of the Chaos Gods (Horus-Sanguinius) or getting killed boarding a CSM ship (Dorn). But apart from the ones that were elevated to deamonhood, Vulkan seems to be the only other one almost impossible to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Mah bad, I could have sworn that the eldar Lord in Void Stalker mentioned killing Curze to Soul Hunter just before the final encounter in the book.

Doesnt seem true, to only way Cruze died was because he believed it vindicated everything he believed. He wouldnt have died at some Eldar's hand willingly and I doubt it was in the Eldar's power to do so by force. Furthermore the assasin stole several legion artifacts, which they got back by killing her. Seems a bit too convenient if the Eldar killed Cruze and only seconds later the assasin came in to take the artifacts. Seems like trickery.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Oh, I'm not disputing that aspect of the statement - I know that there was some dissension around splitting the Chapters - I think there was an incident where an IF ship was attacked by an Imperial Fleet ship, but Dorn relented to avoid another civil war. No, the part I was disputing was that Vulkan was actually there in person.

Just as a note, the first quote is kinda fethed up on two points:

A) Why would Guilliman not agree with splitting up the chapters - it was his idea!

B) Why would Ferrus Mannus back the Ultramarines - at this point in time I don't think he would be thinking straight. Probably because he was headless and very, very much dead...

I was going to mention that bit about Ferrus but it wasn't part of the conversation. It is odd as the Iron Hands Index Astartes also confirms his death pretty much.

Guilliman is not agreeing with Dorn because Dorn does not want to follow Guillimans idea of Chapters, Vulkan and Russ were with Dorn.

@Pilau Rice - Apologies for that. Now I re-read it, I can see that the quote is saying that Dorn and Guilliman are not relenting - but on different sides of the argument. My first impression was that they were unrelenting - but both agreeing not to split the chapters. It was worded a bit strangely, but maybe it was just me not slowing down to read it properly...

Book was lame, super disapointed. I dont really care that hes a perpetual, its not a great idea IMO but whatever. I just think the book was generally sub par, very predicable, lots of I dont know whats real or a dream nonsense. The teleporting bit at the end had me rolling my eyes big time, I know its unstable technology but really? Its no Battle for the Abyss or anything but there have been some really well writen, cant stop reading novels in this series, this was definitly not one of them.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
@Pilau Rice - Apologies for that. Now I re-read it, I can see that the quote is saying that Dorn and Guilliman are not relenting - but on different sides of the argument. My first impression was that they were unrelenting - but both agreeing not to split the chapters. It was worded a bit strangely, but maybe it was just me not slowing down to read it properly...

No need to apologise

Spartak wrote:
Book was lame, super disapointed. I dont really care that hes a perpetual, its not a great idea IMO but whatever. I just think the book was generally sub par, very predicable, lots of I dont know whats real or a dream nonsense. The teleporting bit at the end had me rolling my eyes big time, I know its unstable technology but really? Its no Battle for the Abyss or anything but there have been some really well writen, cant stop reading novels in this series, this was definitly not one of them.

So I'll probably enjoy the feth out of this book as most of the HH books people liked/loved I've greatly enjoyed, and those that people hated I've enjoyed.

I'm with you on that one Alfndrate. Personally, having read all of the rest of Mr. Kyme's work (and greatly looking forward to the Salamanders Omnibus and his next Trilogy), I can't fault it - he's done wonders regarding fleshing out the Salamanders fluff. Hence, I reckon his foray into the HH series with Vulkan Lives and Promethean Sun are bound to be just as good.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm with you on that one Alfndrate. Personally, having read all of the rest of Mr. Kyme's work (and greatly looking forward to the Salamanders Omnibus and his next Trilogy), I can't fault it - he's done wonders regarding fleshing out the Salamanders fluff. Hence, I reckon his foray into the HH series with Vulkan Lives and Promethean Sun are bound to be just as good.

Now I remember why I didn't just grab this book when it came out, even though I am very interested in the Salamanders. Strike one for me is that it was written by Kyme; Strike two was the price.

I'll wait until it's released under more normal pricing and just ignore the author's name while hoping there isn't too much space marine whining. The first book in Tome of Fire (Salamander) was a bit OTT with it. Granted, by the third he managed to have them grow up a bit. So maybe this is better.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I've never read it, (Lexicanum gives me the general gist of it) but I wouldn't put it past the Eldar to sow misdirection just as a boast while he kills Talos. However, seeing as Talos has spent his life hunting down M'Shen, it's proabably safe to say it was M'Shen who killed Curze.

He didn't spend his life chasing Martin Sheen, he caught her and rendered her into little pieces.

Should be noted that Vulkan Lives also contains the first non-fanart depiction of Konrad Curze



Pretty much what we expected.

Only Primarch left with no GW-affilated studio artwork of any kind is Lion El'Jonson.

Reading the title of the thread, first thing that popped into my head was Blazing Saddles.

Anyway.

I liked the book overall, but I was kind of disappointed in the perspective shifts. It kind of seemed slapped together and it wasn't very smooth. Though I imagine it wasn't easy to do both time shifting perspectives as well as "is this really happening?" perspective, which I don't think Kyme has ever done in his writing.

Another disappointment with the book is it didn't really move the Heresy story further really, just added more questions. It seems that with the HH series you have a bunch of one off or question adding books, then all of a sudden you get a book that jump starts the series into moving the overall story and then back to fluff and side stories. So that disappointment isn't so much with the book itself but having to wait for the next book that kick starts the storyline again.

Pray to your Emperor that the Tyranids don't get their talons on him...