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HQ

Farseer (100)

Troops

Dire Avengers x10 (130)

Dire Avengers x10 (130)

Elite

Fire Dragons x6 (132)
^
Wave Serpent (140)
TL SL
ShC
Spirit Stones

Fast Attack

Swooping Hawks x6 (96)

Swooping Hawks x6 (96)

Warp Spiders x5 (95)

Heavy Support

War Walker Squadron x3 (210)
3x SL & StC

War Walker Squardon x3 (210)
3x SL & StC

Wraithlord (160)
SL & StC

1499

Apparently they play quite a bit of annihilate at the local GW. Not trying to be too competitive but would like some feedback in this regard in case I decide to try out the army in that respect. This is my first army in about four years, which should help explain any hideous shortcomings that I've missed. If anybody is interested, the aim of the list is firepower. In particular, I would like suggestions about how a farseer could be used in this list, as I am truly, truly, awful at using them. I probably would have taken 3 squads of swooping hawks if I didn't feel obliged to use my warp spider models, and then replaced the fire dragons/wave serpent with something else. Thanks in advance for any help.

Ok well theirs a couple things, spirit stones need to be dropped for holo fields. Dire avenges either need exarch with shimmer sheild (not recommended but better) or dropping them for any type of guardian( preferable... Gaurdians, and or jet bikes).

Regular dire avengers die way to easy.

Farseer, not amazing in this list but hers a good way to use him, make all war walkers squadrons straight StC with no SC, then give far seer jet bike, mantle of laughing god to keep him alive, and take pre science, and guide, so the walkers still get to reroll to hit, and you got more anti MEQ.

But laughing sear has good senergy.

Make fire dragons into just a 5 man squad, a enemy tank will die, then they wil die either way, so a 6 man won't make a big difference than a 5 man. Try and get spiders up to a 10 man squad.

My advise.

I'll look into shifting around some points so I can switch for holo fields for the WS.

I really don't think that the laughing seer is going to make his points back.

What do you suggest I'd cut out of my list in order to afford holo fields, laughing seer, and an extra 5 spiders?

If dire avengers die way too easily, why would I replace them with guardians? Currently thinking about increasing squad sizes and adding shimmers.

WW are superior with SL StC, one of the only things I won't change about the list after I've seen the statistics.

Taking note of your advice, but I'm not sure I really understand the reasoning behind it. Could you explain a little?

The statisitics on SL / StC walkers is good however the reason I would go with his idea is because you have 12 S6 AP6 shots and 6 S6 AP2 shots that get twin linked from the laser lock. Per squad of 3 walkers.

with going double StC you will kill anything that is not in armour. and you get the twin linked from the Farseer powers for guide and the prim from divination or telepethy (cant recall which on it is).

This gives you 2 WW squads that will make anything walking cry.

The Dire Avengers swap will save points by going to guardians. with the battle focuse they can run and shoot or shoot and run with gives you almost the same range as dire avengers for a few points less and the ability to take a hvy weapon per 10. It saves yoru points if your going to run dire avenegers stock. I prefer guardians because for 90 points you have 20 potential rending shots at 12 - 18 inches with battle focuse. saves some points to upgrade other things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also the 6th fire dragon is a complete waste in the meta i play in. they are a 1 trick pony is 99% of the time.

They ride up in wave serpent jump out blow up a tank or MC and then get owned by anything in range as they present a massive threat to almost everything. Once they are out of the transport they will not survive so why put extra points into a suicide squad?

Laughing sear not making its points back... Let me explain something to you....

To kill a laughing sear at range he needs to take 108 s7 or less cover saves. With anything s8 or higher, he will need to take 36. This is not even counting to hit and to wound. Ignores cover.... He still has 3+ 4++ save.

He won't ever get into combat, because he can move and turbo boost away form any potentially life treating situtations.

All in all, the only time he's dieing is vs tau. Because there tau.

There are better anti tank than dark reapers, as said above. For example, 3 or 2 walkers all with BLs wellbe able to shoot 4-6 s8 lance weapons very turn, including one. Since they stay back, they are also less of a threat.

But if to many War walkers is a problem, then whatever's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry not dark reapers,fire dragons. :( sorry for confusion,

@ninjafiredragon

I don't think you understand about the farseer. Not dying is not making your points back. He can ride around all day being hard to kill but how many points will he be removing from the enemy's army? If he is that hard to kill people will -not- shoot him. I don't want to use a unit that will only work if I make the assumption that my opponent is unskilled; firing 108 S7 shots at my immune farseer.

They are not better than fire dragons at shooting out tanks. This is not correct. if you run the maths. A full squad of warwalkers will be making 2 glances/pens on average per turn on AV 12+ IF the opponent has no cover save whatsoever. AV 11- str 6 spam becomes much much more effective, and is also far better at destroying infantry, especially in cover. (Again, let's not assume the opponent is a fool who dumps his squads into no cover areas. But if he does, SL/StC is still on par with StC/StC even without cover.) Dropping dragons and putting in BL warwalkers is trading one 1-trick-pony for another. A pony that is not even particularly great at its one trick.

At AV 12, SL StC will make about 1.6 glances per turn. Exchanging their insane anti-infantry firepower (Which is better than dual StC) is not worth 0.4 glances per turn. AV 13+ vehicles like predators can be flanked and instantly minced by warp spiders. AV 14+ or other tough targets will be reserved for the fire dragons or the swooping hawks (Which are insane anti vehicle).

Honestly, I might consider dropping the fire dragons simply because hawks and spiders are already so great at taking down armour, though I'd really need a lot of cover for that to work.. That said, it's not enough of a guarantee which is why I threw dragons in the list.

@Matt2429

You're right about the guardians, despite your rather confusing comment about them having the same range as dire avengers, (they have battle focus too).The reason I wanted to take dire avengers is to avoid AP 5 bolter fire, and avoid getting into rapid fire range. Still not sure.

I will look into removing a fire dragon after some maths on it. Something like "How many times out of 10 will a 5 man dragon squad fail to take out a land raider".

All that aside, the question really is coming down to whether I cut the dire avengers for guardians or upgrade them to have shimmer shields.
My other question is "Just how good are warp spiders right now?"

Thanks for the C&C so far, guys, and I apologise for not taking more of it into account in my list. Yet, some of the suggestions are great, others I just can't agree with looking at the statistics I've seen.

No, I don't think you understand how target priority works. Your Farseer is your Warlord, as he is your only character, therefor he is worth a victory point should your enemy kill him. This VP could potentially lose you the game. 40pts is a small price to pay to make your warlord virtually unkillable (or not worth trying) through shooting, especially when Jetbike Movement makes him virtually unkillable (read uncatchable)through combat also. Now without it, I'm guessing He will join a Dire Avenger squad. So now that incredibly valuable VP is being protected by 10 4+ T3 saves with less then stellar close combat abilities and no long range threat capability. This unit is very vulnerable to any sort of concentrated shooting and a single vindicator blast will evaporate the entire unit. This game, as much as people tell you otherwise, isn't about simply removing the opponents army anymore, but the game revolves around objectives and Victory Points. It just so happens objectives are easier to take when your opponent it dead, but it is perfectly possible for a much weaker force to win a game by playing the mission while the other person tried to table him. You are also drastically lacking high end anti tank fire power. All you have for the task are Fragons in your sole vehicle. The sole vehicle which will be in the crosshairs of every single las cannon in the opponents army. It WILL be shot down and its occupants WILL be left stranded with no one to immolate. So what I would do is upgrade to a laughing seer with spear, take out 1 unit of warwalkers and the wraithlord for serpents and holofields for your Dire Avengers ( People will say take guardians, but its a preference choice really. I prefer DA because they actually GET a save against bolters) as well as bulking out your warp spiders and possibly switch to double brightlance on WarWalkers for the added anti LR. My 2 cents

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
No, I don't think you understand how target priority works. Your Farseer is your Warlord, as he is your only character, therefor he is worth a victory point should your enemy kill him. This VP could potentially lose you the game. 40pts is a small price to pay to make your warlord virtually unkillable (or not worth trying) through shooting, especially when Jetbike Movement makes him virtually unkillable (read uncatchable)through combat also. Now without it, I'm guessing He will join a Dire Avenger squad. So now that incredibly valuable VP is being protected by 10 4+ T3 saves with less then stellar close combat abilities and no long range threat capability. This unit is very vulnerable to any sort of concentrated shooting and a single vindicator blast will evaporate the entire unit. This game, as much as people tell you otherwise, isn't about simply removing the opponents army anymore, but the game revolves around objectives and Victory Points. It just so happens objectives are easier to take when your opponent it dead, but it is perfectly possible for a much weaker force to win a game by playing the mission while the other person tried to table him. You are also drastically lacking high end anti tank fire power. All you have for the task are Fragons in your sole vehicle. The sole vehicle which will be in the crosshairs of every single las cannon in the opponents army. It WILL be shot down and its occupants WILL be left stranded with no one to immolate. So what I would do is upgrade to a laughing seer with spear, take out 1 unit of warwalkers and the wraithlord for serpents and holofields for your Dire Avengers ( People will say take guardians, but its a preference choice really. I prefer DA because they actually GET a save against bolters) as well as bulking out your warp spiders and possibly switch to double brightlance on WarWalkers for the added anti LR. My 2 cents

Everything about sear... My point exactly.

I also agree without what he said about everything else to.


I recently faces another Eldar player with walkers with all scatters, and it did a lot a lot better than. Expected. So the weapon options is really preference, though you are lacking in av 14 after dragons die.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
No, I don't think you understand how target priority works. Your Farseer is your Warlord, as he is your only character, therefor he is worth a victory point should your enemy kill him. This VP could potentially lose you the game. 40pts is a small price to pay to make your warlord virtually unkillable (or not worth trying) through shooting, especially when Jetbike Movement makes him virtually unkillable (read uncatchable)through combat also. Now without it, I'm guessing He will join a Dire Avenger squad. So now that incredibly valuable VP is being protected by 10 4+ T3 saves with less then stellar close combat abilities and no long range threat capability. This unit is very vulnerable to any sort of concentrated shooting and a single vindicator blast will evaporate the entire unit. This game, as much as people tell you otherwise, isn't about simply removing the opponents army anymore, but the game revolves around objectives and Victory Points. It just so happens objectives are easier to take when your opponent it dead, but it is perfectly possible for a much weaker force to win a game by playing the mission while the other person tried to table him. You are also drastically lacking high end anti tank fire power. All you have for the task are Fragons in your sole vehicle. The sole vehicle which will be in the crosshairs of every single las cannon in the opponents army. It WILL be shot down and its occupants WILL be left stranded with no one to immolate. So what I would do is upgrade to a laughing seer with spear, take out 1 unit of warwalkers and the wraithlord for serpents and holofields for your Dire Avengers ( People will say take guardians, but its a preference choice really. I prefer DA because they actually GET a save against bolters) as well as bulking out your warp spiders and possibly switch to double brightlance on WarWalkers for the added anti LR. My 2 cents

Good! This is really helpful, thanks. I'm coming back to the game and was not taking in mind the farseer would be worth that much to the opponent. How much lower str anti vehicle am I likely to face, weapons great at taking down warwalkers for example? Will start thinking about the alterations you suggested, though I think the hawks combined with the threat of fire dragons will be enough for AV14 in this many points (Note, if swooping hawks assault a land raider it will very likely die). On paper the warwalkers with double BL just look awful to me, though I've never actually used this config in a game, so I'm uncertain. Again, I think I simply prefer DA to guardians. Back to the codex for me.