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I know the Rubric of Ahriman turned a majority of the Thousand Sons legion into "soulless automatons" with psykers not affected. So what about a commander? Do they also need a Sorcerer to guide them, or do they have at least some free will.

Another question I've had for some time is what of new marines following Tzeentch? I'm assuming they wouldn't be affected by the Rubric since it already happened and Magnus put a stop to it.

The commanders are sorcerors. The Rubric affected Thousand Sons who had weaker psychic abilities. Those unaffected were all the sorcerors. New Tzeench marines would just be normal marines with marks, not automatons. Rubrics are pretty much unique to the Thousand Sons.

Ok sorry about this. What I meant by Commander was Chaos Lord. Hopefully that will clear things up.

A Chaos Lord with a Mark of Tzeentch would do just fine. A Chaos Sorcerer is more thematic for Tzeentch, but it is not a requirement.

New Tzeentch devotee Marines would simply be Chaos Marines with the Mark of Tzeentch. Unfortunately (because Tzeentch is my favourite Chaos God), this is not viable at all on the tabletop (Who even cares about 6++?). In fluff, though, it'd just be Marks. There are more Tzeentch Marine cults than just the Thousand Sons, although they are the most famous (being one of the four famous cult legions, along with the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Death Guard). The only other Tzeentch warband I can think of at the moment is The Scourged, who are cursed to hear every lie spoken by man, or something like that. They also have a cool colour scheme.

It can be assumed that Ahriman has means to either produce new Rubrics or recover them somehow.

EDIT: There are no Rubric Marine Chaos Lords.

Psykers were either made stronger or annihilated. No one weak enough to be rubricided had a position of serious rank.

The fluff says that there Ahriman and his Cabal were exiled after the Rubric was made. Ahriman himself formed the Prodigal Sons and since it doesn't specify how many were in the group (only naming a few) I figure I can have my Sorcerer (as I also believe a Tzeentch army should be lead by one) can be one of those other members with a warband of his own. The Lord could be used as an enforcer and attached to a squad to keep proper fluff standing.

Rubric marines cannot operate without a sorcerer to guide them. The only time I can think of when this happened was when ahriman was strangled by one because the bit of them that is left remembers that it is all ahriman's fault that they are so messed up.

Fluffwise, all Chaos Lords marked by Tzeentch are psykers. Game wise it doesn't work out that way but you can give them Scrolls of Magnus (haha) if you want to be fluffy.

I hardly think Mark of Tzeentch on marine squads 'isn't viable.' It's 20 points for a squad of ten. That doesn't buy you much. You'd rarely notice the difference I think. Now 'not optimal' I'll agree with.

Ahriman has the ability to call the souls of Rubrics back into new suits of armour (See the book Ahriman: Exile). Their souls can't pass into the beyond.

 Nitros14 wrote:
Fluffwise, all Chaos Lords marked by Tzeentch are psykers. Game wise it doesn't work out that way but you can give them Scrolls of Magnus (haha) if you want to be fluffy.

Eh? It's quite the opposite. Fluff-wise, all THOUSAND SONS that aren't Rubric suits are powerful psykers, but this is by no means all of Tzeentch's followers. It's entirely possible there are Chaos Lords out there who caught Tzeentch's attention not from being powerful psykers but for being particularly scheming, manipulative or otherwise politically charged. Huron Blackheart could be a perfect example, for that matter - he's not a psyker himself but he is a devious bugger. Oh, and of course the same is true of Abaddon - he's not a psyker but he has Tzeentch's Mark.

Game-wise, double-check your Codex - you *cannot* give a Chaos Lord the Mark of Tzeentch.

 Super Ready wrote:

Game-wise, double-check your Codex - you *cannot* give a Chaos Lord the Mark of Tzeentch.

That only shows what will be troops instead of elites. If you look at the last option it says May take a single Mark of Chaos from the wargear list. It doesn't say anything about a Chaos Lord not being able to take marks of any kind in either part.

Oh, fair enough. Looks like *I* should double check my Codex then.

If you want to be fluffy and have a Thousand Sons HQ, take a Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch. If you want to be fluffy and have a non-TSons Tzeentch warband, take either a Sorc or Lord with the Mark of Tzeentch (Although expensive, can be combined with Sigil of Corruption to get 3++, even).

The Mark of Tzeentch is not viable on CSMs because nobody cares about 6++.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

The Mark of Tzeentch is not viable on CSMs because nobody cares about 6++.

I don't think you're using the word 'viable' correctly. 'Non-optimal' is probably what you're looking for.

Unless you really believe those 20 points will make or break the game for you if they're spent elsewhere.

And hell, if you end up taking eight wounds from a heldrake, blastmaster, tau army, monstrous creature, power weapon or AP3 hit out of cover the mark will have actually been worth it! I hear those things exist in the game.

Came up with using a Sorcerer as my WL and using a Lord as a front line enforcer type. Both have the Mark of Tzeentch and a least the Lord will have the Sigil of Corruption. I've been thinking for awhile that a 3+ Inv is great.

 Nitros14 wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

The Mark of Tzeentch is not viable on CSMs because nobody cares about 6++.

I don't think you're using the word 'viable' correctly. 'Non-optimal' is probably what you're looking for.

Unless you really believe those 20 points will make or break the game for you if they're spent elsewhere.

And hell, if you end up taking eight wounds from a heldrake, blastmaster, tau army, monstrous creature, power weapon or AP3 hit out of cover the mark will have actually been worth it! I hear those things exist in the game.

It's a 6++. It would save a tiny number of those wounds. Maybe one or two. It's pretty awful. I'm using "viable" to mean "things that aren't so completely terrible you should be ashamed for even thinking of using it". Just because it's only 20 points doesn't mean that it's okay to just basically throw them away for nothing. It's worse than non-optimal.

Meanwhile, Chaos Lords are pretty great in 6th. I have yet to use a Sorcerer, though. I am definitely not a fan of Dice Gods picking what weapons a unit is going to be equipped with (random dice rolls for psychic powers).