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Hello everyone,

I haven't played for a while and now want to start an Imperial Guard army. I drafted up the following list. The basic philosophy is to have a backfield presence with infantry and ordnance to guard home objectives and shoot stuff up, with more mobile elements on both flanks for counter-attacking and/or objective grabbing. I also largely went with the "whatever you take, take two" philosophy.

[HQ] Company Command Squad / 95 pts
3 plasma guns (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield with platoons and ordnance, issue orders, intercept enemy units that deepstrike or otherwise end up in my rear. I figured their BS4 warranted purchasing some weapons for them.

[TROOPS] Infantry Platoon / 175 pts
Platoon Command Squad
3 flamers (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield, issue orders, barbecue enemies who get close.

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: stay on home objectives, guard Ordnance. I figured the Autocannon is a decent all-round weapon and flamer is nice for Overwatch.

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: as above

[TROOPS] Infantry Platoon / 175 pts
Platoon Command Squad
3 grenade launchers (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield, issue orders, cheap supporting fire

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: same as the other infantry squads

Infantry squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: same as the other infantry squads

[TROOPS] Veteran Squad / 155 pts
3 meltaguns
Chimera with heavy flamer
* Usage: put on one flank, take out vehicles, grab objectives. I figured the flamer would complement the meltas a little better than the heavy bolter.

[TROOPS] Veteran Squad / 155 pts
As above, on the other flank

[ELITE] Storm Trooper Squad / 105 pts
2 meltaguns
* Usage: deep strike and pop a vehicle. Look cool. Would like to have two units, but no points.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Leman Russ / 150 pts
* Usage: put on one flank, shoot stuff up.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Leman Russ / 150 pts
* Usage: put on the other flank, shoot stuff up.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Ordnance Battery / 340 pts
2x Colossus, camo netting, heavy flamers
* Usage: stay back in cover, look cool, shoot infantry and light vehicles in cover.
Leman Russ

Total = 1500 pts.

Stuff I would like to have for being cool/fluffy: a Commissar, vox casters, regimental flag, snipers, Leman Russ Demolisher, Leman Russ Exterminator (the tanks I could have in this list, but I figured 2x standard Russ would be more dependable than 1 Demolisher and 1 Exterminator).
Stuff I don't really want: fortifications, more than one flyer, Chimera parking lot.
Stuff that worries me: 4 identical infantry squads overkill? Enough defence against flyers? CCS too expensive? PCS equipment useful?
Stuff I'll be facing: Orks, Marines, Necrons, Eldar.

Any tips very welcome!

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:
Hello everyone,

I haven't played for a while and now want to start an Imperial Guard army. I drafted up the following list. The basic philosophy is to have a backfield presence with infantry and ordnance to guard home objectives and shoot stuff up, with more mobile elements on both flanks for counter-attacking and/or objective grabbing. I also largely went with the "whatever you take, take two" philosophy.

[HQ] Company Command Squad / 95 pts
3 plasma guns (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield with platoons and ordnance, issue orders, intercept enemy units that deepstrike or otherwise end up in my rear. I figured their BS4 warranted purchasing some weapons for them.

This unit seems connflicted in its role, if you want an offensive unit, max out on weapon upgrades and put them in a Chimera, if you want a backfield support unit, give them the standard for help with Ld and orders, and don't bother with any weapons (except possibly a lascannon, or mortar if you are tight for points).

[TROOPS] Infantry Platoon / 175 pts
Platoon Command Squad
3 flamers (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield, issue orders, barbecue enemies who get close.

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: stay on home objectives, guard Ordnance. I figured the Autocannon is a decent all-round weapon and flamer is nice for Overwatch.

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: as above

[TROOPS] Infantry Platoon / 175 pts
Platoon Command Squad
3 grenade launchers (no points for 4)
* Usage: stay in backfield, issue orders, cheap supporting fire

Infantry Squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: same as the other infantry squads

Infantry squad
Autocannon, flamer
* Usage: same as the other infantry squads

Both PCS have good setups, the flamer one is particularly effective (you might want to consider swapping the other one for a 3x flamer one as well), but I would change Infantry Squads. One flamer (or two if you combine squads) is not going to save you from a dedicated assault unit, and it is probably better to be wiped out and let the Flamer PCS burn whatever killed you. I have found this to be very effective.

Autocannons are good all round, but I find guard need to specialise rather than try and do everything at once, so I would drop the flamers and upgrade the AC to Lascannons.

[TROOPS] Veteran Squad / 155 pts
3 meltaguns
Chimera with heavy flamer
* Usage: put on one flank, take out vehicles, grab objectives. I figured the flamer would complement the meltas a little better than the heavy bolter.

[TROOPS] Veteran Squad / 155 pts
As above, on the other flank

good setups for anti-tank, but the flamer strikes me as out of place, and if a Chimera is close enough to flame something, it is likely already a write-off as they will be wrecked in assault by most things. The HB and Multilaser give you some good anti-infantry firepower and the ability to threaten light vehicles at range.

[ELITE] Storm Trooper Squad / 105 pts
2 meltaguns
* Usage: deep strike and pop a vehicle. Look cool. Would like to have two units, but no points.

Again, a good AT unit, very reliable and should kill most tanks. And I agree, looking cool is something Stormtroopers do very well.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Leman Russ / 150 pts
* Usage: put on one flank, shoot stuff up.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Leman Russ / 150 pts
* Usage: put on the other flank, shoot stuff up.

This is where I'm really not sure, I find specialisation really is key with russes, and the LRBT is one of the poorer variants, doing limited anti-MEQ and little else. If you're taking 2 russes, I would reccomend an exterminator with HB sponsons, which is lethal to light/medium infantry and light vehicles (I've found this setup is hell for necrons, tau and eldar, the mass AP4 will cut them down in droves), and a Demolisher is a great unit for driving up the field and being a real threat, and should also take some fire away from your chimeras. Target MEQ/TEQ and heavier vehicles with this and you won't go far wrong. Don't take sponsons on the Demolisher.

[HEAVY SUPPORT] Ordnance Battery / 340 pts
2x Colossus, camo netting, heavy flamers
* Usage: stay back in cover, look cool, shoot infantry and light vehicles in cover.

This seems like a good unit, but I have little experience with artillery so can't offer much help. What I will say is you want these out of Line of Sight, so the camo netting is less helpful and could potentially be dropped. Also, i would go with HB over HF, not that it really matters, it's just that if you get a weapon destroyed on the main gun, you can still drive around and be a nuisance, wheras a flamer necessitates being in CC range and therefore Death range for a vehicle with AV10 in CC and open topped. Try and focus on infantry rather than vehicles.

Stuff I would like to have for being cool/fluffy: a Commissar, vox casters, regimental flag, snipers, Leman Russ Demolisher, Leman Russ Exterminator (the tanks I could have in this list, but I figured 2x standard Russ would be more dependable than 1 Demolisher and 1 Exterminator).
Stuff I don't really want: fortifications, more than one flyer, Chimera parking lot.
Stuff that worries me: 4 identical infantry squads overkill? Enough defence against flyers? CCS too expensive? PCS equipment useful?
Stuff I'll be facing: Orks, Marines, Necrons, Eldar.

Any tips very welcome!

Vox casters are useless, a Commissar is good if you are planning on combining infantry squads. Snipers are outclassed by the other 5 points weapons, flamers and GLs. The identical Infantry squads are fine, I frequently run 6+ in the same setup.

In short, my advice is to drop the guns on the CCS and take a standard, change the russes for a more specialised role, and get LC for the infantry.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Paradigm, that help a lot! I have just one question. After dropping the plasma guns on the CCS, which seems sensible, what do I do when a nasty assault unit ends up behind my lines? Flame them, yes, and then just hope enough of the rest of the army happens to be in range and line of sight to shoot them up?

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:
what do I do when a nasty assault unit ends up behind my lines?

You should die as a hero -- it's a Guards Way!

Really, you will never be able to stop a dedicated assault unit with just a command squad regardless for it's weapons, so do not bother.

An air based army like necrons can be would ruin this entire army simply because you have nothing to get rid of them. Since you dont want to get any fortifications id suggest maybe ally in a PA codex for divination or simply grab a hydra or 2?

AstraVlad wrote:
Really, you will never be able to stop a dedicated assault unit with just a command squad regardless for it's weapons, so do not bother.

So your suggestion is to do nothing? That's not a very heroic death is it .

Jpat1213 wrote:
An air based army like necrons can be would ruin this entire army simply because you have nothing to get rid of them. Since you dont want to get any fortifications id suggest maybe ally in a PA codex for divination or simply grab a hydra or 2?

Ah yes, flyers, I did worry about that. A Hydra is much cooler than a dull old defence line, yet rather pointless when there are no flyers. How about those Sabre platforms with TL lascannons? Maybe a heavy support team with 3, or perhaps a platform in two infantry squads?

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:
Really, you will never be able to stop a dedicated assault unit with just a command squad regardless for it's weapons, so do not bother.

So your suggestion is to do nothing? That's not a very heroic death is it .

You also can:
1. Live at home a decent shooty force -- shooty enough to kill or at least heavily wear down those assolters.
2. Have a good tarpit unit.
3. Call a friend (ally ) and ask for help (some Deathwing Knights will definitely help ).
4. Run/ride away.

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:

How about those Sabre platforms with TL lascannons? Maybe a heavy support team with 3, or perhaps a platform in two infantry squads?

Sabres are great. But they are Immobile so you should take them as a HWT or you infantry will be forced to babysit Sabres all game through .

I'd drop the 2nd PCS, with Grenade Launchers and just have the Infantry Squad as 1x PCS and 4x Squads, it saves you the extra easily killable points and removes a Kill Point.

I know you don't like the idea of an Aegis but you are spending the points on Camo Netting, it would really benefit you to have one.

I like the Flamer/Autocannon Combo, it's solid.

Colossus work better with Heavy Bolters as they can shoot them at things they might be hitting with the Template as well. Where as the heavy flamer, if it's being used, indicates you are in big trouble.

I'm not a huge fan of Stormtroopers when you can get much more bang for your buck with the 100 points in a melta Vet Squad or an Aegis/Quad

You could also take the Plasma from the CCS and give it to a Vet Squad for more mobile fire support and then the CCS can go Melta.

If you drop the PCS (50) and the StormTroopers (105) you can afford (155)

Aegis with Quad Gun - 100
OR
3rd Vet Squad with 3 Melta - 100

Then drop 2 Flamers from the Infantry Squads for 10 - MARBO! (65)

OR squeeze a bit somewhere and get :
3rd Vet Squad with 3 Plasma in a Chimera - 170

Thanks AstraVlad and Tzarkahn, you raise interesting points. I'll be scribbling down a revised list when I find some spare time

I'd put in a hellhound in there or a Valkyrie (I love my Valkyries in my guard army)

Tbh as a possible guard newbie I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. From my (limited) knowledge of IG, I know a Vendetta is a great anti flyer unit but a Valkyrie may have more adaptable, and can carry your storm troopers in for precision MEQ murder. Regardless of HOW you do it, you really need anti air because in my meta at least everyone has a flyer or FMC.
I'd also say with russes you need to specialise. A demolisher is short range take all. The punisher is AI but you have a fair bit I think. The executioner is TEQ certainly, but Will be fine anti non-vehicle. The others idk

AstraVlad wrote:

 Sgt. Oddball wrote:

How about those Sabre platforms with TL lascannons? Maybe a heavy support team with 3, or perhaps a platform in two infantry squads?

Sabres are great. But they are Immobile so you should take them as a HWT or you infantry will be forced to babysit Sabres all game through .

You can only replace a Heavy Weapon Squad with a Sabre Turret Squad, unfortunately. You can't simply replace a single Heavy Weapon Team with a single Sabre Turret + gunner.

 Talore wrote:
You can only replace a Heavy Weapon Squad with a Sabre Turret Squad, unfortunately. You can't simply replace a single Heavy Weapon Team with a single Sabre Turret + gunner.

That's good to know, thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so my buddies now want to do 1750pts instead of 1500. This adds some possibilities.
However, I've been reading Ailaros' battle reports epilogue and have been feeling completely depressed about 40k all day. He basically says the way to build a decent Guard army is to ignore infantry and just ride a bunch of metal boxes towards the enemy and shoot them to bits. I don't want that. I want a hybrid list with some infantry, some vehicles, some artillery - a little of everything basically. I also want to actually do stuff in the movement phase and heck, even the assault phase, even if it's just dying. Sitting back and just letting rip from long range doesn't seem a fun way to play either with or against. I also want to win now and then, which may conflict with everything else I want.

So, concluding I may not be able to play Guard the way I imagined without losing all the time, I might need to pick a different army... before I do so though, here is a 1750pt list which ticks my 'fluffy' and 'fun' boxes and tried to mostly incorporate your previous advice. If you guys think it can be made semi-competitive with some small adjustments, I'd love to give it a go.

HQ
Company Command Squad: 90
Vox, Standard, Lascannon

Lord Commissar: 70

ELITE
Storm trooper squad of 10: 163
2x plasma gun

TROOPS
Platoon: 320
Platoon command with 4 flamers
Inf. squad with lascannon and vox
Inf. squad with lascannon
Inf. squad with autocannon and vox
Inf. squad with autocannon

Veteran squad: 185
Demolitions, 3x melta, Chimera

Veteran squad: 145
Grenadiers, 3x plasma, shotguns

FAST
Valkyrie: 100

Devil Dog: 135
Multi-melta

HEAVY
LR Demolisher: 165

LR Exterminator: 170
Heavy Bolter sponsons

Medusa: 135

TOTAL: 1678 of 1750

Setup and strategy:
The infantry squads combine into two blobs of 20, one with the lascannons and the other with the autocannons. Commissar Lord and voxes ensure reliable twin-linking by orders of CCS. The plasma Veterans ride in the Valkyrie and are meant to grab an objective late-game, removing any unit on it by plasma. The storm troopers have the same role by deepstriking. The Medusa and Demolisher dish out the S10 AP2 pie-plates where needed, the Exterminator and Autocannon squads are on anti-infantry/light vehicle duty. The lascannon squads on orders are anti-tank and (paltry) anti-air, aided by the Valkyrie. The melta vets and devil dog provide further anti-tank. This way I hope to have at least two units for every 'job', mostly without spamming.

As you see there are some points left for adjustments. I think another melta vet squad in chimera would be nice to have, but don't see the points. I'd like to hang on to the storm troopers for being cool, though will consider a smaller squad. Most of the Ordnance choices are cool so not dead set on the Medusa. Also not set on the Devil Dog, though I prefer a Hellhound-variety over another melta-vet squad in Chimera for being more interesting, but let me know if this is really dumb. I know my anti-air is still lacking. Will consider a Vendetta instead of the Valkyrie, though dislike it for its cheese-reputation. Might take a Hydra if I had a HS-slot left over. Still can't get over the boring-ness of an Aegis-line and don't want to take allies.

I realise I'm making stuff hard on you here and may seem ungrateful, which I'm not . Hope you guys can have another look!

Hey, Sgt, don't take everithing in the interwebs as true! I have no tanks and still very happy with my IG. Here is one of my rosters:

4 Company Command Squad (HQ) @ 110 Pts
Lasgun; Flamer (x3); Vox-caster

1 Astropath @ [30] Pts

1 Company Commander - Warlord @ [36] Pts
Power Weapon; Laspistol

1 Primaris Psyker (HQ) @ 70 Pts

9 Psyker Battle Squad (Elites) @ 110 Pts

1 Overseer @ [20] Pts

1 Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 170 Pts

4 Platoon Command Squad @ [50] Pts
Flamer (x4)

1 Platoon Commander @ [14] Pts
Close-combat weapon; Laspistol

9 Infantry Squad @ [60] Pts
Flamer; Vox-caster

1 Sergeant @ [14] Pts
Close-combat weapon; Laspistol

9 Infantry Squad @ [60] Pts
Flamer; Vox-caster

1 Sergeant @ [14] Pts
Close-combat weapon; Laspistol

9 Veteran Squad (Troops) @ 115 Pts
Lasguns; Flamer (x3); Demolitions

1 Veteran Sergeant @ [16] Pts
Close-combat weapon; Laspistol

9 Veteran Squad (Troops) @ 120 Pts
Lasguns; Plasma Gun (x3); Vox-caster

1 Veteran Sergeant @ [16] Pts
Close-combat weapon; Laspistol

1 Vendetta Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 140 Pts

1 Vendetta @ [140] Pts
Twin Lascannon (x3); Heavy Bolters (x2)

1 Vendetta Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 140 Pts

1 Vendetta @ [140] Pts
Twin Lascannon (x3); Heavy Bolters (x2)

1 Vendetta Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 140 Pts

1 Vendetta @ [140] Pts
Twin Lascannon (x3); Heavy Bolters (x2)

1 Skyshield Landing Pad (Allies) (Fortification) @ 75 Pts

1 Ordnance Battery (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts

1 Earthshaker Cannon #1 @ [75] Pts

1 Earthshaker Cannon #2 @ [75] Pts

1 Manticore (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Heavy Bolter

Models in Army: 69


Total Army Cost: 1500

IMO I would put the storm troopers in the Valkyrie, that way they can outflank if you like and can insert on the fly-by. Then put your plasma vets in a chimera to force your opponent to split his AT fire. Some lascannons on your Valkyrie (I'm not sure of its basic loadout) would make it a better flyer hunter, though not as good as a Vendetta.

To second the above, it is certainly possible to run foot guard with no vehicles and be successful, especially if you are not playing against the most competative net-list armies. A Russ or two is always useful, but guard can work without them.

As I said in another post, I actually think your original list is pretty good, expanding to 1750 should really be about covering any weakness in your 1500 list. I would make a start by upgrading all the PIS to LC and melta squads, very good at AT, and add a lord commissar for one of the blobs, effective and counters the Ld weaknesses.

Looking at your second list, I would change the shotgun vets for Lasguns, you don't really want to be assaulting with a squad that could instead fore 3x plasmaguns. You get the same number of shots at 12", and can use FRFSRF.

Second list looks solid, really, maybe lacking in AA but as I say, you don't need to overdo it unless playing competatively.

As a final note, don't focus on winning at the expense of fun, otherwise, as you said, it is easy to become disillusioned with the game. Remember this is a game, and winning or losing is not important in the end. Basically, run the list you want, play the game you want, and above all, enjoy it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
IMO I would put the storm troopers in the Valkyrie, that way they can outflank if you like and can insert on the fly-by. Then put your plasma vets in a chimera to force your opponent to split his AT fire. Some lascannons on your Valkyrie (I'm not sure of its basic loadout) would make it a better flyer hunter, though not as good as a Vendetta.

I don't think the ST's outflank confers onto the valk, as it is not dedicated, and they can DS anyway. The valk is better used for the vets, who otherwise lack mobility for late-game objective taking.

Thanks Paradigm as I said I'm also a newb so my knowledge is a bit limited. To OP, he's damn right if you don't have fun then the win becomes almost a null and void. Because 40k as dark as the "reality" is, it's made for us to enjoy it

Thanks for the encouraging replies guys, calms my mind . I'll replace the shotguns with lasguns, easier to model too. Then I guess I'll get painting some troops and can always adjust later based on experience. As regards to fun: 40k is a much hilarious as it is strategic, in my experience, and it has to be when so much depends on dice. The real disappointment comes when you think you have a hard-as-nails list that can't possibly lose and then the dice screw you over, so I like to stay clear of that and build fun lists . The Valkyrie btw already has a lascannon, but that is nothing compared to a Vendetta's 3x TL lascannons of course. We'll see how it fares. I haven't seen my buddies amass enormous amounts of flyers yet.