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 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Thanks, no conscript gets anywhere without a veteran to guide and lead. I was thinking a punisher vanquisher and executioner. I have no real artillery knowledge but a basilisk or manticore wouldn't go amiss. I'll also mount my CCS and maybe a small platoon in a chimera too. Then a hellhound squadron possibly

I like that mix of tanks, but make sure each one optimises itself for a specific role. For example, the Vanquisher should have a hull LC and MM sponsons, the punisher should have HBs, and the executioner plasma sponsones. However, I would drop the executioner and put PC sponsons on the vanquisher, making it great against MEQ, TEQ, AV and MC. Then, use the extra HS slot for a manticore for some great indirect fire.

I wouldn't run a platoon in chimeras, it's just too expensive for far less use than the vets get out of them. I do like the idea of having a static base of 80+ infantry and a manticore behind an ADL, and then an armoured detachment of a couple of Russes, and a CCS and 2 vet squads in a chimeras. This provides the hammer for the ADL's anvil, and forms a fast, hard-hitting strike force. You want at least 3 chimeras for this, to provide target saturation, and a hellhound or two wouldn't go amiss. People will tell you the vendetta is just better, and while this may be true, hellhounds have their place and can be effective in this kind of list, adding more AV presence and more target saturation.

Thanks (again). I haven't got round to buying the codex yet, so could I ask a huge favour, to compile a rough 1500 or 2000 pts list based on that? If its a hassle I'll get round to it later but it may help the OP with another idea

Here's a 1500 point list based on what you suggested.

CCS, 4x melta, chimera, HB/ML: 145

Platoon-
PCS, 4x flamer: 50
PIS, LC, melta: 80
PIS, LC, melta: 80

Platoon-
PCS, 4x flamer: 50
PIS, LC, melta: 80
PIS, LC, melta: 80


Veterans, 3x plasma, chimera, HB/ML: 170

Veterans, 3x plasma, chimera, HB/ML: 170

Vendetta: 130

Vanquisher, LC, PC sponsons: 210

Punisher, HB sponsons: 200

ADL: 50

1495 total.

The vendetta is there for AA rather than as a tranport. Stick the blobs behind the ADL, and shoot stuff. Concentrate the armour on one flank, leading the charge with the chimeras. The russes can hang back and shoot, or move up and add to the chimera group. The punisher will need to close range as fast as possible, so that is the best place for it. The vanquisher can afford to be further away, keeping it safe from short-range AT like meltas.

To take this to 2000 points, I would add the following:

Manticore: 160

Platoon-
PCS, 4x flamer: 50
PIS, LC, melta: 80
PIS, LC, melta: 80

Marbo: 65

Priamris Psyker or lord commissar: 70 (It comes down to personal preference here really. Both are pretty useful)

In terms of general strategy at both levels: Blob behind ADL holding an objective (or two if you are playing a mission with multiple objectives). Neutralise the major threats early on with the vanquisher and LCs, murder infantry whose transports are killed with Punisher and vets (and manticore unless they have a 3+ save or better, if so then shoot vehicles instead). Marbo should target something important, like the warlord if they don't have T5+ or EW, as he only has to fail one LOS to get instakilled, or go for hidden artillery with demo and meltabombs. Vendetta should target enemy aircraft first, and then tanks. Vets should make a late-game push for an objective.

Hope that helps.

 Paradigm wrote:

With regards to infantry and power weapons, in anything short of a 5-squad blob, they are not really going to save you from a dedicated CC units. You ca expect to have one challanged out, and the rest will not hit hard enough. I agree commissars are usesful for not being swept, but the 10 points for a power weapon could go towards upgrading an AC to an LC, or a flamer to a plasma gun. On the whole, I find that a better use of points as they can do damage over several turns, rather than one turn in CC and thn being swept or shot. Over the course of a game, one plasmagun will probably kill as much as a power axe would, but the difference is you can pick the target, and can kill stuff before it hits you, rather than at I1 in CC, by which point it's probably too late.

I do see that this is a matter of opinion, so don't think I'm criticising your point, I'm just discussing the alternatives.

I like your tone. I like to discuss this

I'd like to point out, that I am playing only 1000 points battles (OP said something about 1000 points army, so I am here ) so my games may and will be lot different than yours (most players play games around 1850 points)

I agree that dedicated CC units will kill your blob regardless of power weapons. But there is a lot of units, which are not CC dedicated, but can still destroy your squad simply because of the absence of power weapons. For example tactical marines from all codices (even chaos ones). Warp spiders will probably sweep through that blob with ease. Even normal guardians (I assume, of course, that many of those units will use their assault weapons first...) will destroy blob with ease. Terminators can and will cause problems to a blob, but with power axes a blob can kill them a lot easier. I use lasgun fire a lot more than CC. But power weapons are something like an insurance. Without them (and a commissar), your opponent can often assault your squad without fear and bring it down.

You can save a lot of points without CC equipment for 30-man blobs (commissar with axe - 45 or lord commissar with fist - 85, power weapons - 30). I also tried to play without them. There is a big problem with this. If your opponent have some CC units or some fast units or other way to get close to you, you have big problems (sometimes you have already lost). There are some units which can get to you very easy. Flying monstrous creature, bikes, cavalry, assault transports...

I do not recommend plasmas in a blob. It is inefficient - your soldiers will burn themselves more than the enemy...(speaking from very sad experience...)

 Lothar wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

With regards to infantry and power weapons, in anything short of a 5-squad blob, they are not really going to save you from a dedicated CC units. You ca expect to have one challanged out, and the rest will not hit hard enough. I agree commissars are usesful for not being swept, but the 10 points for a power weapon could go towards upgrading an AC to an LC, or a flamer to a plasma gun. On the whole, I find that a better use of points as they can do damage over several turns, rather than one turn in CC and thn being swept or shot. Over the course of a game, one plasmagun will probably kill as much as a power axe would, but the difference is you can pick the target, and can kill stuff before it hits you, rather than at I1 in CC, by which point it's probably too late.

I do see that this is a matter of opinion, so don't think I'm criticising your point, I'm just discussing the alternatives.

I like your tone. I like to discuss this

I'd like to point out, that I am playing only 1000 points battles (OP said something about 1000 points army, so I am here ) so my games may and will be lot different than yours (most players play games around 1850 points)

I agree that dedicated CC units will kill your blob regardless of power weapons. But there is a lot of units, which are not CC dedicated, but can still destroy your squad simply because of the absence of power weapons. For example tactical marines from all codices (even chaos ones). Warp spiders will probably sweep through that blob with ease. Even normal guardians (I assume, of course, that many of those units will use their assault weapons first...) will destroy blob with ease. Terminators can and will cause problems to a blob, but with power axes a blob can kill them a lot easier. I use lasgun fire a lot more than CC. But power weapons are something like an insurance. Without them (and a commissar), your opponent can often assault your squad without fear and bring it down.

You can save a lot of points without CC equipment for 30-man blobs (commissar with axe - 45 or lord commissar with fist - 85, power weapons - 30). I also tried to play without them. There is a big problem with this. If your opponent have some CC units or some fast units or other way to get close to you, you have big problems (sometimes you have already lost). There are some units which can get to you very easy. Flying monstrous creature, bikes, cavalry, assault transports...

I do not recommend plasmas in a blob. It is inefficient - your soldiers will burn themselves more than the enemy...(speaking from very sad experience...)

Even at games of 1000 points (which I also play a lot of), I find the biggest advantage of the guard is numbers, We can bring enough guys, even in small games, to force our opponent onto the back foot and be over whelmed. Hence, I tend to prioritise boys before toys in games up to 1000 points, often only taking GL or flamers for the platoon squads.

I see your point on using them defensively, but my attitude is not so much to stop the guardsmen from dying, as that is fighting an uphill battle, but to maximise the damage they can do before dying. Hence, I tend to play agressively and focus on killing enough that I have at least a chance of drawing the combat/not fleeing.

Also, against armies who pose a credible threat in CC, I have a different strategy for beating them, which moves away from blobs entirely, running seperate squads. This means the enemy have to either make a disordered charge, losing attacks, or content themselves with killng ten guardsmen at best. This happens, the first wave dies/flees, and suddenly the enemy are in the open, in front of another line of guardsmen and tanks, who more often than not cut them down pretty easily, especially as I tend to keep plasma vets and Flamer PCS behind my first line, giving a very effective counter-attack.

Yeah, the plasma was just an example, I do appreciate the downside, I was just pointing out what 10 points can do.

 Paradigm wrote:

Also, against armies who pose a credible threat in CC, I have a different strategy for beating them, which moves away from blobs entirely, running seperate squads. This means the enemy have to either make a disordered charge, losing attacks, or content themselves with killng ten guardsmen at best. This happens, the first wave dies/flees, and suddenly the enemy are in the open, in front of another line of guardsmen and tanks, who more often than not cut them down pretty easily, especially as I tend to keep plasma vets and Flamer PCS behind my first line, giving a very effective counter-attack.

Yeah, I believe this to work against some threats, especially in higher points games. A problem is when your enemy ignores the 10-man squad wall and focus on important targets with his dakka units. Some months ago I played against SW drop pod list. I divided my army in squads of 10 (casuals at front, veterans with plasma and ACs and command behind). My enemy just shot down the veterans and then assaulted the casual soldiers next turn. It was a quick game

In another games, my enemy played greater daemon or screamers and assaulted the important units. Well, even if you are nicely deployed and your opponent is forced to charge the first line of units (which he is often not do the shotting phase before assault or due to the fact you have to take some objectives), you usually do not have enough firepower to bring them all down after they finish eating your body-wall. Imagine the screamer unit with 2+ cover (invisibility from sorcerer)...you will not do them any real harm. Imagine the greater daemon with T6, 4 wounds, 3+ armour, 5+invul with reroll, 4+FNP, flying. Or bikes with improved cover, standing just before your army with 2+ save, using their dakka units to kill one 10-man unit from the wall (easily done) and then charge the important ones behind...there are many ways to get to the CC with important units. In 1000 points game you also do not have points to build a proper body-wall that would stop them for more than one turn.

Can you, please, post your 1000 points list and some of your tactics? It could be helpful for me to imagine how you play.

Yeah, I see how the tactic is limited against some armies, but I see neither Demons or many podding MEQ in my local meta, mostly playing guard, necrons and tau. Actually, that could explain my preference for shooting over CC defence, as none of those are particularly fighty.

I tend to vary my lists a lot, especially for lower point games, but here is one that gets used a lot. I would also point out my local meta is very casual, so some things are there purely for rule of cool rather than effectiveness:

Primaris Psyker: 70 (usually rolling on biomancy)

Platoon-
PCS, 4x flamer: 50
PIS, flamer: 55
PIS, flamer: 55
PIS, flamer: 55

Platoon-
PCS, 4x flamer: 50
PIS, flamer: 55
PIS, flamer: 55
PIS, flamer: 55

Veterans, Carapace, 3x plasm,: 145
Veterans, Carapace, 3x plasma: 145

Leman Russ vanquisher, PC, LC: 210

1000 points total

In terms of tactics, I move the infantry into effective range as fast as possible, and use the vets more defensively to counter DSers or assault units.I blob against shooty armies, not CC ones. The vanquisher obviously goes for tanks, and then for MEQ/TEQ. Primaris will roll on biomancy for hope of getting endurance or enfeeble, both of which help the blobs massively.

As I say, I realise this is not the most competative list, hence why it appears not align with some of my earlier comments in the thread, and no one locally plays fliers, so that is also something I leave out. The low-tech weapons such as the Flamers are there for fluff reasons more than anything else.

If i were to be playing a fighty army, I would use them something like this:

PIS----PIS----PIS
PCS
PIS----PIS----PIS
Vets---PCS----Vets
LR

and use them like I described. I can see how this would fall apart to a Drop pod list or anything with a lot of DS/mobility, but as I say, it's mostly shooting round here.

Thank you for the earlier list I'll likely tweak it to get standard/medic in the CCS to help protect my Warlord, and maybe make one of my PCS heavy weapons, maybe autocannon as I'm not huge on flamers but maybe grenade launchers... Hmmm decisions...
Seen as everyone's on about power weapons, I'd say maybe 2 max per blob one axe one sword. It's not a massive outlay, and gives you some chance with MEQ or TEQ. For cc armies I'd say weight is pretty useful FRFSRF is very useful. Melta and plasma would be good too

The medic on the command squad seems wasted while they are in the chimera, as they are unlikely to take wounds. Again, the standard is also not really needed as they are unlikely to be near the infantry, and morale is not an issue for squads in chimeras.

GL are fine in PCS, but flamers just make them an amazing unit for counter attacking anything that breaks the line. If you want more Heavy weapons, then lascannons are a safe bet, but I think you probably have enough of them in the infantry.

In terms of my PCS I'll probably do one each, see how that fares. In terms of block platoons, are SWTs or HWTs or conscripts even worthy of mention? I've only seen HWTs mentioned sporadically, the others not at all. And what use are storm troopers and abhumans?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
In terms of my PCS I'll probably do one each, see how that fares. In terms of block platoons, are SWTs or HWTs or conscripts even worthy of mention? I've only seen HWTs mentioned sporadically, the others not at all. And what use are storm troopers and abhumans?

Yeah, no harm in HW PCS, if you don't plan on moving much. Regarding the other parts of the platoon, I find their uses are limited.

HWT: can put out good firepower, but has no extra wounds and suffers from low Ld. Even a single shot at s6+ can cause them to fall back, probably off the board, and for the same reason they are also ineffective at taking orders. I would avoid them and bring HWs in infantry squads.

SWS: These are pretty much limited to jumping out of a vendetta and dropping a demo charge, but marbo does this better, and if you want special weapons, you're better off running vets for the better BS, Ld and extra wounds.

Conscripts: I am personally nort a fan of these, but they can be good as a first wave of an assault or to provide cover, and with SITNW they can reliably claim an objective in your deployment zone. I would rather use PIS, but this is just preference.

Abhumans: This really is opening a can of worms, as some love these guys and some hate them. I find ogryn to be pretty useful and versatile, able to perform agressive or defensive roles. Ratlings are again divisive, and the way I see it is this: If you want snipers, get ratlings, but do you want snipers? Really is personal preference here. I would rather have Russes with LC/PC for taking out MCs, but ratlings can work.

Stormtroopers: Posssibly one of my favourite units in the whole codex, these guys provide great AT when DSed with melta, and anti-infantry with AP3 lasguns and accurate DS flamers being rather effective. However, the key with them is to go big. 10 will get killed in a turn, but 30 dropping into the enemy backfield can really cause headaches, and take fire off your advancing guard and vets while still dishing out damage.

I'll certainly run stormtroopers as a 10 or 15. Ratlings look fun and I like snipers, ogryns are a little pricey but in big games why not?

Probably I'll blob out an entire platoon to the max of everything to try them all out, nothing beats battlefield experience and no one really cares about "the poor bloody guardsmen" so if they die failures they won't be missed...

With stormtroopers, you probably want 2 full squads of 10, one with meltaguns and one with flamers. That should cover most bases.

By all means try the various part of the platoon, as you might get them to work. And you're right, if you have guardsmen left at the end of the game, you're doing it wrong!

Thanks again, I'm sure if there was an IG for real you'd basically be Macharius with all the knowledge you have! Okay maybe that's a bit much but as a new with *no* knowledge of guard it can seem that way.
The only thing with stormtroopers as I see it is their expense and vulnerability to anything better than AP4, and the high risk strategy of the glory boys, so I'll stick with one squad for the early days, maybe with double FOC I'll run it in your style.

Thanks. To be honest, I've only been playing guard about a year. Glad I could help out, though.

Yeah, ST are vulnerable to AP4, and do cost a lot, but I find the cost is usually worth it due to the damage and speed they bring to the army.

Double FOC... you could bring 60 ST.... That would be EPIC!

Is it better to put them in Valkyries, or outflank them? And is FomT a good combo if it goes wrong

Personally, I would DS them (they can reroll scatter) as it gets them in rapid fire/flamer/melta range the fastest. With outflanking you risk turning up on the wrong side, and valkries/vendettas are probably better used to carry vets, who otherwise lack the mobility.

I'm not sure FOMT will be much use to stormies, who will likely land behind the enemy's cover. On the whole, they don't make the best use of orders, as they operate far ahead of the rest of the army, and are generally OK on thier own. Orders are better on larger squads who need help to be better, whereas ST can kill plenty on their own.

So im just curios

Are you trying to be competitive or cheesy? or are you trying to be fluffy or just have fun?
I started playing guard a long time ago and to be completely honest the Tank castle and the flying vet army just doesn't do it for me..
I dont play in tourneys much and most my games are based on a scenario or i just run a very fluffy list...
The way i have had fun playing guard is playing the scenario/ campaign games and/ or playing stuff that I just wanted to play in standard pickup games because it looks cool or has a cool special ability.
For example: i love running conscripts, rough riders, mortars, chenkov, stormtroopers, and ogryns, arguably some of the worst choices in a tournament/ competitive game do to various reasons... but to me they look really cool!! especially one the board. so I use them, im not about winning every game ,i can have fun with out winning, but if your the type of person who has fun playing tournaments and competitively, then do that!

You also have to decide what kind of style of army do you want?
Armoured aasualt Company ( lots of chimeras and vets or stan. guardsmen)
Armoured company ( Lots of tanks )
siege army ( fortress walls, artillery, infantry)
Infantry company( self explanatory)
Air assault company ( vandettas, valkyries etc. )
or just a balanced list that includes a liitle of everything???
I have collected to a point where i can switch between the style of army depending on the mission/ scenario or what i feel like playing for the day...
thanks for reading!

Hey guys, checking in again after a few days away. I got to play a small game yesterday at 750pts. I had a lot of fun! I played against Space Marines and the guy used an army a that was basically the following.

2 10 TAC Squads, with Plasma Gun + Cannon in a Rhino.
1 Libby
1 Dreadnought with HF and Lascannon.
1 Vindicator? It was dropping S10 Blasts (this thing sucked!)

I took

CCS
x3 Snipers

PCS
x4 Flamers

x3 Inf Squad
x3 Plasma
x3 Autocannon

PCS
x4 Flamer

x2 Inf Squad
x2Melta

x1 Scout Sentinel

The game was setup a little weirdly but I didn't really know the rules so essentially I just setup on the one side of the table and put my Melta Squad w/ PCS toward the middle and put my Plasma Squad and PCS toward the Right in the corner-ish. I had my CCS between the two on a skysheild landing thing with the things up. My Sentinel was in front of my Plasma Squad.

The idea was to use CCS to issue both of them orders and just hopefully kill him before he hit me.

The weird thing was, I know in Fantasy it's one drop, then the other guy drops, then you drop. Is it not that was in 40k, because he just let me put down my entire army then deployed on my far left side so my big Plasma Squad was out of the range for much of the game. He put his Dready almost directly across from my CCS so between my two blobs, and the Vindicator was far left too.

We didn't use objectives or anything, so Kill points I guess.

I got first turn which I didn't want, (can I opt to go second?). Anyway I moved up into cover and sat down, I used Bring it Down to shoot my autocannons at the Dready, no effect. I snipers shot, no effect. I couldn't see the dready with my Sentinel so no shooting there.

On his turn he moved dready up, shot and killed my sentinel, (Sad) and dropped the TAC squads out of the Rhinos after turning them around so the hatch was opening to the back. They moved up a little and took some pot shots nothing big, but I did GTG. The Vindy moved up to get in range.

My turn, I realized why GTG kind of sucks, I cant use the order to get them back up until the shooting phase so I couldn't move my Meltas forward to pop the Tank, which at the time, I still didn't know dropped S10 Pie Plates. So my far squad moved up a bit, again Bring it down on Auto Cannons, and shoot the Dready with Plasma. I manage to Glance it to death, good thing, he just told me it had a Heavy Flamer -_-; The snipers do nothing and my lasgun shots from my melta squad after being ordered back up kill a marine, Woo!

His turn the troops shuffle forward and the Vindy moves out to get LoS on my squad. Libby casts a spell which makes me hit myself with the entire squad, (Sad face again) kills a few. The marines shoot and kill a few more, and then the Vindy shoots and all hell breaks loose. It kills like 11 or 12 and Sadness all around, the Squad is almost dead at this point. Pass Leadership and it's my turn.

I shift my Plasma Squad up a bit, Melta squad was GTG. CCS moves over a bit on the skysheild. Melta Squad misses order to get up, plasma/autocannons try to hurt the Vindy, nothing. Snipers manage to kill a marine. Pass turn.

Marines move up and shoot, mopping up the remaining pieces of my Melta Squad Vindy shoots at my Plasma squad (sad face) At this point he actually had to leave.

So game over and I was left with a lot of thoughts, one, I need Lascannons! So i finally built my HWT Lascannons... Two Snipers are not that good in CCS, however, I think I would like to try Ratlings, because the chance at sniping out that Libby sounds nice! Three, I need a Psyker, because that stuff is crazy!

The most valuable thing you will achieve in early games is experience, which is really better than anything you read on here. Things like how deployment differs from WFB (I had the same issue the other way round when starting fantasy), and whether certain tactics like GTG/GBITF are useful to you are all important things to learn.

LC in the melta platoon is certainly good, and if you want the CCS to kill rather than just ordering, then an LC and possibly plasma is the way to go.

Regarding deployment and the first turn, you roll off before the game, and if you win, can choose to go first or second for deployment and then you get the corresponding turn. So if you win the roll, yes you can elect to go second, which gives you a chance to counter the enemy deployment and react early on, rather than going first and giving your opponent this advantage. If, on the other hand, your opponent wins the roll and chooses second, you can't do anything about it.

The sentinel really should have entered from reserves and outflanked, giving it a shot at the side armour of the dread/vindicator, which would have made both of them far easier targets.

A psyker is good in my opinion, although some would say the CCS is always better. Ratlings are again debatable, but are a better choice if you want snipers.

At one point you mention the vindicator doing massive damage to your infantry. This can be avoided by spreading them out more, as you can have 2" between each model, so even a direct hit should only get 5-6 models. Again, this is something that will become instinct in time.

It can be disheartening to have guardsmen play against something that can do the same amount of damage with half or less of the models you have, but that's just the nature of the army. The key thing is you learned and got a feel for the army, and had fun, which is really the most important thing.

Hope that helps.

It's good to see you're playing, IG v SM is always tough on the guard when bolters kill on 3+. LC is a good bet to add in, and if you were playing at 1000pts an AP3 tank would be very useful, and LRBT or an executioner are longer range than a vindicator and kill marines very very well.
Also, may I suggest that if you are going to be order reliant that you invest in the odd vox caster on key squads?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Also, may I suggest that if you are going to be order reliant that you invest in the odd vox caster on key squads?

That's a good point. If you are going to rely heavily on orders, it's worth investing in some way of ensuring you pass them. I prefer a commissar for the higher Ld and better general use, but voxes are also good. It's up to you and what points allow to decide, but it's certainly worth considering.

In terms of allies, guard can ally with anyone right? So what would you recommend as allies for IG to balance their weaknesses? I've got orks for cc and crons for durability, but are there any very good ones?

Having tested pretty much all imperial armies (bar SOB) as allies, they all have something that adds to the guard.

Personal favourites are Space wolves with a strong drop pod presence, able to get in the enemy line and take fire off my guardsmen whilst still doing a load of damage. Rune priests are also great for divination and psychic defence, shutting down any power within 24" on a 4+. Thunderwolves can add some fast and deadly assault units, and could make a great spearhead/linebreaker for a mechanised list or contingent.

DA add cheap divination libbies, can chuck out a load of fire with the Banner of Devastation, and the ravenwing can add some great fast AT with meltas. However, the best bits of DA are the termies and bikes, which can't be scoring while as an allied detachment, so they're better off with guard allies rather than vice-versa.

C:SM are always good, pretty versatile and hard-hitting. The lack of bodies is counterbalanced by guard, and the squishiness of the guard is balanced by the SM. No access to divination, though.

BA can again add some good offence, but really no better than the other options. Really, the problem here is that the BA's unique parts are contained to themselves, like FNP bubbles, so they don't bring that much to guard.

GK, whilst suffering from being Allies Of Convenience, add a lot, scoring DS troops (strikes or termies) help with taking control of the midfield and add a good mix of CC and ranged power. Divination libbies are also good, as are cheap inquisitors for the same. Coteaz opens up all sorts of options with henchmen, and the SR adds to the valk/detta AA capability. These would be my second choice, after SW, simply due to each army balancing the other's weakness and adding something useful to the other.

SOB I'm not sure on, as other than a few gimmicky HQ combos with blobs and Jacobus/Celestine, they don't seem to offer much that the various flavours of SM can't do.

As for the non-imperial armies, I don't have any first-hand experience, but there are a few combinatinons that spring to mind, and some I would suggest avoiding.

I would advise against Tau or Necrons as allies, as guard are already Ok for AA and long-range fire, so they don't add that much.

CSM seem to offer the same as SM, but with the added bonus of heldrakes and FMC demon princes.

Demons I have no idea about, but FMCs and psykers seem like they would be good additions.

Orks might add good CC, so could be a good option, but I can see congestion issues when trying to cram two horde armies in a single deployment zone. On the whole, they are not the worst option, but just add CC, with little versatility.

So in conclusion, my top 3 would be: Drop pod SW, GK (strikes, and DK, or SR, or henchmen), and DA (libby, tacs in pods/rhinos, DWK).

Hope that helps.

That helps a lot, I don't have other imperial armies only crons and orks so it's a tad void for me but I'm sure the OP and others would appreciate it. I picked up 30 guardsmen a command squad a chimera and an LRBT of some sort through trades, so I'll play a game or two and report back, though I'll have to play all vets

Aha, I didn't know you meant specific allies, so I was talking more generally. Of the two you have, crons would probably be the better choice, as they offer more than the assault GEQ that orks provide.

All vets can work at low points, actually, but be sure to give them carapace armour, as so often it is the difference between a 4+ save and none at all. you also need to take care with positioning, so you keep the special weapons alive as long s possible.

I'll bear that in mind thanks again, having boltgun equivalent and T4 really helps so crons will do.
I'll also try all vets see how it goes, if not I'll use my orks and crons as proxy platoons