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Sadly we dont have as many stores in the states like you do over there. But I had a similar situation but since my problem was with the manager I had to go to another store across town just to talk to someone about their behavior.

I would for sure talk to the manager about this.

The hypocrisy in this case, though, is that he could have stayed if he'd bought a bottle of paint. I'm sorry, but that's just rude.

Saying "Regardless of your purchase, you cannot stay in the store for more than X amount of time" is one thing. Saying "Buy a $4.50 bottle of paint and you can stay as long as you like" is quite another!

Again, just talk to the regular manager and see what he has to say about it. Personally, I'd appreciate hearing what, if any, resolution there is (and if not, if you are going to find another gaming venue, etc).

In the long run, a club is much better than a GW shop for all sorts of things.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
He then told me to leave and I got, understandably, agitated. He even threated to call the police, and when I asked what I am doing wrong, he said your doing nothing. I said I couldn't leave, as I didn't have a bus to catch until 5:30 (He kicked me out at 1:30) and he said he didn't care, this isn't a day care. With my parents in work I could do nothing but wait in a busy town with hundreds of people walking past with no supervision ( I wonder if he understands abduction) with a valuable looking case.

You are an unsupervised minor who planned to spend 4-6 hours in a store. He is not your guardian and not responsible for supervising you. If you are abducted, it is your parents fault, not the store owner. He doesn't want to be liable for your mere existence, so he is right to call the police and have you taken into custody if you won't leave. You are an unsupervised minor loitering, and then when asked to leave, trespassing.

The simple act of being an unsupervised minor is 'good enough' reason to have you removed from the store. Now if he 'chooses' to supervise a child for a parent by running a demo game while mommy goes shopping for an hour in hopes of making a sale... then that is his choice, but he cannot be forced to take custody of you with the explanation of 'I have no where else to go'.

I have often seen a parent march 5-6 children into a movie theater, sit them down, say 'be quiet' then leave for the entirety of the movie, many ages 7 and under. And when they return, they find their children have been taken into custody because the theater I go to takes abandon minors very serious.

Its the Summer Holiday, I want to go into the store to play MY hobby which I buy with MY money (I have a paper round, not much I know, but its what I can get). My parents can't take me because they are in work. I'd rather go into the store to play then go out with friends to hang out at street corners (Wouldn't want to be loitering...). What is wrong with going into town like I have been doing for years? What am I meant to do if I want to play? Playing on my own just isn't very fun.

Games Workshop no longer maintains hobby centers, they only have retail stores now. You wouldn't sit in your local electronics store for 4 hours, listening to music either, would you? That's how GW stores work nowadays, they are stores, not more, not less.

Join a club, get your friends into the hobby (second hand market is huge and entry costs are very low), play at home or at a friend's house. GW doesn't want you playing in their stores unless you also buy something.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Its the Summer Holiday, I want to go into the store to play MY hobby which I buy with MY money (I have a paper round, not much I know, but its what I can get). My parents can't take me because they are in work. I'd rather go into the store to play then go out with friends to hang out at street corners (Wouldn't want to be loitering...). What is wrong with going into town like I have been doing for years? What am I meant to do if I want to play? Playing on my own just isn't very fun.

Like Nkelsch said, you were an unsupervised minor--and from what I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, the employee in question was around your age.

How was the traffic at the store? If it was crowded I'm siding with the staffer on this one. Otherwise I don't see any reason you couldn't hang around.

Your case being kicked and your Raider being destroyed is fethed up, and I'm sorry about that. But don't try to blame that on the staffer.

See it as a lesson learned. In the future, always have a Plan B.

While the new employee cann't be expected to know all the regulars I find it strange when someone comes trying to buy a £60 item, but cann't since it is not in stock, then is exposed to this. It really smacks of bad business sense to me. If treated well I'd expect the customer to return to buy the item when it is back in stock.

Other than that the no loitering rules has been the policy for GW stores for a long time now. So the employee is strictly enforcing a standing policy while exercising little common sense.

If I were you I'd take with me one of your parents and talk to the manager. Explain the situation. If you're not happy with his answer take your business elsewhere.

 warriorpriest wrote:

pities2004 wrote:You could also go to the store and take a dump on the bathroom floor, but that's just me

Like you personally would really do this???? *rolls eyes*

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Just because you patronize a store doesn't entitle you to waste space. I have heard the line "do you know how much money I spend here?!?" as a bartender often enough to know that no customer is actually paying our bills. Did the employee go about it the wrong way? yes he did. But no one is entitled to hang out in any store just because he has nothing better to do.

powerclaw wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
I see both sides of this.

On the one hand, the store is not a place to just hang out. Would you hang out at any other store like that and expect to be allowed to stay? What I also noted was that you said you were browsing the rulebooks, this means handling a lot of the copies that are meant to be sold and putting undue strain and use on them when you are not intent on buying them. It may not be malicious or intentional. but you are wearing out their product without any intent to buy.

But on the other hand, you are a fairly longtime customer and should be known by this point.

I'd discuss it with the manager.

He said 'my rule books'

And to anyone saying its a store and not for hanging out, you are right on the same page with GW. WTF is my incentive to not purchase everything online and play in my basement if I can't hang out at the hobby store?

Agreed. He went there to play which is like free advertising for the store. I have never been to a store where it was buy something or get out and I am thankful for it.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Just because you patronize a store doesn't entitle you to waste space. I have heard the line "do you know how much money I spend here?!?" as a bartender often enough to know that no customer is actually paying our bills. Did the employee go about it the wrong way? yes he did. But no one is entitled to hang out in any store just because he has nothing better to do.

Sorry bars are not the same as gaming stores. Also can you honestly expect me to believe that every time you went in to your FLGS to play that you spent a large amount of cash there as well??

Walgreens in Scottsdale

What gets me about this is you even refer to yourself as an unsupervised minor so you put yourself in the wrong......

When I was 11 I had to have a parent with me in the store and when I turned twelve my parents asked if I still had to, the Manager (The nice one) said no, we will look after him well enough. Since then I've been going in on my own. Although he didn't put it in writing, he inferred I was welcome there as long as I behaved without an adult. Its been like that for ages, now a knew guy comes in and kicks me out for not buying anything, even when I came into the store with the intention to buy an expensive piece of kit. I just don't see that as fair.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Just because you patronize a store doesn't entitle you to waste space. I have heard the line "do you know how much money I spend here?!?" as a bartender often enough to know that no customer is actually paying our bills. Did the employee go about it the wrong way? yes he did. But no one is entitled to hang out in any store just because he has nothing better to do.

You are absolutely right. And it's the overboard embracing of this that is leading GW right into the toilet.

Let's keep like things with like things and not talk about anything other than hobby shops. 'Hobbies' are fairly social endeavors, and are usually supported by a community of like minded folks. If one person in that community gets treated like crap just because they didn't buy something one time out of the dozens of other times that they have spent hard earned money, that could start spoiling the whole community.

Of course we know that GW has long since disregarded that the community is even important as they have pretty much done away with open gaming in their stores.

So yes, he is not entitled to hang out, and that stors is also not entitled to his money, but it seems GW and even some gamers have forgotten that.

The idea that you have to buy something when you go into a shop is ludicrous. People come in to where I work all the time and can be served regardless of whether or not they intend to make a purchase.

This GW staff troll should really just suck it up that his company's client base is of a young age group. If he can't handle that he should get another job.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
When I was 11 I had to have a parent with me in the store and when I turned twelve my parents asked if I still had to, the Manager (The nice one) said no, we will look after him well enough. Since then I've been going in on my own. Although he didn't put it in writing, he inferred I was welcome there as long as I behaved without an adult. Its been like that for ages, now a knew guy comes in and kicks me out for not buying anything, even when I came into the store with the intention to buy an expensive piece of kit. I just don't see that as fair.

Yes, one guy chose to supervise you in order to make a sale, the other guy doesn't want that responsibility as supervising kids is a dangerous thing due to liabilities. Did the old manager have your parents phone info to contact them at work should there be an issue? The company can't make him legally supervise you, especially since he would be unskilled to do so.

You are a child. Life is not fair. You get 4 more harsh years of that until you turn 18, and then you can begin your quarter life crisis when you find out being an adult, life is still not fair as you will enter a job market which will leave you unemployed, under employed and saddled with college debt you will be paying until you are 50.

What are you doing not working at 14? When you turn 14 here, you get a job and work. Playtime and summer are over. Want to be treated like an adult, then go get a job.

Regardless, supervising minors is dangerous and no unqualified person should attempt it or be forced to do it in their line of work. This is both for the child's safety and the adult's protection.

I don't approve of GW's actions in this case. If that is how they want to treat you go spend your money else where. Just seems like a bully who works there who was probably picked on in high school

You are missing the point, nkelsch... quoting my post from above:

 RiTides wrote:
The hypocrisy in this case, though, is that he could have stayed if he'd bought a bottle of paint. I'm sorry, but that's just rude.

Saying "Regardless of your purchase, you cannot stay in the store for more than X amount of time" is one thing. Saying "Buy a $4.50 bottle of paint and you can stay as long as you like" is quite another!

Again, just talk to the regular manager and see what he has to say about it. Personally, I'd appreciate hearing what, if any, resolution there is (and if not, if you are going to find another gaming venue, etc).

It's easy for folks on the internet to say "Life's not fair", but they'd be upset if the same happened to them. Probably wasn't the best idea to post it here, as you're going to get these kinds of reactions.

Again, if the store has a policy about unsupervised minors (which, perhaps it should!) IN GENERAL, that's one thing. If the policy is, the minor gets kicked out for not buying a bottle of paint, when what he came to purchase is out of stock... that's quite another.

In your movie theater example, it'd be like the theater allowing kids to run around all day if they bought a fistful of movie tickets. But if they only came to see a single movie, they're not "high rollers" enough to be allowed to see the movie they came to see.

That's the disconnect here, and why I think the manager will apologize to you if he's got any sense, imo.

Ah, this thread again. We've had the standard responses from Solo and Nkelsch (Pull a string on their back to hear the same tired old statements!) All we need is ol' Bryllo to complete the trifecta of these replies.

GW have forgotten that their own website advertises about being able to "simply come in and have a natter" for their hobby centres. Either have a word with the manager or speak to H/O as it was unacceptable, but you'll have to face it OP, GW have changed. No longer can you come into the store for a simple chinwag with the staff or other members of the community that would inevitably be there. If you're not doing anything "hobby related" (which is a vague term at the best of times) or in extreme cases not buying anything then you're shown the door.

 pities2004 wrote:
I would call the authorities and say he tried to touch you.

Yep, because commiting a criminal act is the best way to handle being treated in such a way.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Quit whining because you were asked not to loiter. Remember why any store exists: making money. It isn't a library or a lounge.

what the is this? no where in his OP did he say he was asked not to loiter

 Sigvatr wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
I would call the authorities and say he tried to touch you.

Yep, because commiting a criminal act is the best way to handle being treated in such a way.

In all seriousness I'm honestly surprised it has not happened yet. A lot of GW's run one man stores with either very little or no cameras. In this age of kicking out he "hangers on" (so anyone to witness it), all it takes is one pissed off kid getting kicked out of an empty store and the inevitable could happen.

Who are they going to believe? The screaming child... or the guy that works... in... a... toy... shop...

oh wait...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
I would call the authorities and say he tried to touch you.

Yep, because commiting a criminal act is the best way to handle being treated in such a way.

In all seriousness I'm honestly surprised it has not happened yet. A lot of GW's run one man stores with either very little or no cameras. In this age of kicking out he "hangers on" (so anyone to witness it), all it takes is one pissed off kid getting kicked out of an empty store and the inevitable could happen.

Exactly my point, obviously I wasn't serious.

 RiTides wrote:
You are missing the point, nkelsch... quoting my post from above:

 RiTides wrote:
The hypocrisy in this case, though, is that he could have stayed if he'd bought a bottle of paint. I'm sorry, but that's just rude.

Saying "Regardless of your purchase, you cannot stay in the store for more than X amount of time" is one thing. Saying "Buy a $4.50 bottle of paint and you can stay as long as you like" is quite another!

Again, just talk to the regular manager and see what he has to say about it. Personally, I'd appreciate hearing what, if any, resolution there is (and if not, if you are going to find another gaming venue, etc).

It's easy for folks on the internet to say "Life's not fair", but they'd be upset if the same happened to them. Probably wasn't the best idea to post it here, as you're going to get these kinds of reactions.

Again, if the store has a policy about unsupervised minors (which, perhaps it should!) IN GENERAL, that's one thing. If the policy is, the minor gets kicked out for not buying a bottle of paint, when what he came to purchase is out of stock... that's quite another.

In your movie theater example, it'd be like the theater allowing kids to run around all day if they bought a fistful of movie tickets. But if they only came to see a single movie, they're not "high rollers" enough to be allowed to see the movie they came to see.

That's the disconnect here, and why I think the manager will apologize to you if he's got any sense, imo.

Well, lots of stores have explicit policies to 'engage' people who are shopping to help them find what they want, or to get them out of the store if they don't intend to buy stuff. So regardless of age, a person on a sales floor should be able to 'engage' a customer. If the customer is an adult, you can probably leave them unsupervised, but if they are a minor, you should probably help them get what they need, help them check out, and help them leave. Once they are 'done' they leave the store.

Theft protection is a real issue and children steal, and the laws in most areas have almost no teeth to deal with child shoplifting.

Now of course many policies are used incorrectly to hassle minorities and such, but children are a different issue. I suspect, like most FLGS, that there is a policy on unsupervised minors and a 'process' on how to handle them, help them spend money and then leave if they are an issue.

I just don't see how anyone thinks that even at a FLGS that a 14 year old hanging out for 6+ hours buying nothing would be 'A-ok!' and that the store has an obligation to supervise and protect him from harm by accepting him into their custody. Parents may think 'I buy crap, you babysit my kids' and that is totally something a store owner can choose to put up with, but it is in no way an obligated right to be demanded of any retail establishment.

I know it is cool to hate on GW, but I can't imagine a single FLGS who would accept this behavior of unsupervised minors like this. You can't just be a neglectful parent and say 'hey, here is a roll of quarters, go play pac-man at the bodega down the street for 8 hours while I go to work.'

Nkelsch misses the elephant in the room again. IT IS CURRENTLY THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS IN THE UK. Guess what? GW's target market wants to participate in their hobby during their time off from school. Who'd have thunk it?

nkelsch wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
You are missing the point, nkelsch... quoting my post from above:

 RiTides wrote:
The hypocrisy in this case, though, is that he could have stayed if he'd bought a bottle of paint. I'm sorry, but that's just rude.

Saying "Regardless of your purchase, you cannot stay in the store for more than X amount of time" is one thing. Saying "Buy a $4.50 bottle of paint and you can stay as long as you like" is quite another!

Again, just talk to the regular manager and see what he has to say about it. Personally, I'd appreciate hearing what, if any, resolution there is (and if not, if you are going to find another gaming venue, etc).

It's easy for folks on the internet to say "Life's not fair", but they'd be upset if the same happened to them. Probably wasn't the best idea to post it here, as you're going to get these kinds of reactions.

Again, if the store has a policy about unsupervised minors (which, perhaps it should!) IN GENERAL, that's one thing. If the policy is, the minor gets kicked out for not buying a bottle of paint, when what he came to purchase is out of stock... that's quite another.

In your movie theater example, it'd be like the theater allowing kids to run around all day if they bought a fistful of movie tickets. But if they only came to see a single movie, they're not "high rollers" enough to be allowed to see the movie they came to see.

That's the disconnect here, and why I think the manager will apologize to you if he's got any sense, imo.

Well, lots of stores have explicit policies to 'engage' people who are shopping to help them find what they want, or to get them out of the store if they don't intend to buy stuff. So regardless of age, a person on a sales floor should be able to 'engage' a customer. If the customer is an adult, you can probably leave them unsupervised, but if they are a minor, you should probably help them get what they need, help them check out, and help them leave. Once they are 'done' they leave the store.

Theft protection is a real issue and children steal, and the laws in most areas have almost no teeth to deal with child shoplifting.

Now of course many policies are used incorrectly to hassle minorities and such, but children are a different issue. I suspect, like most FLGS, that there is a policy on unsupervised minors and a 'process' on how to handle them, help them spend money and then leave if they are an issue.

I just don't see how anyone thinks that even at a FLGS that a 14 year old hanging out for 6+ hours buying nothing would be 'A-ok!' and that the store has an obligation to supervise and protect him from harm by accepting him into their custody. Parents may think 'I buy crap, you babysit my kids' and that is totally something a store owner can choose to put up with, but it is in no way an obligated right to be demanded of any retail establishment.

I know it is cool to hate on GW, but I can't imagine a single FLGS who would accept this behavior of unsupervised minors like this. You can't just be a neglectful parent and say 'hey, here is a roll of quarters, go play pac-man at the bodega down the street for 8 hours while I go to work.'

Most FLGS wouldn't kick someone out for not buying anything.

They actually care about there customers. I go into my FLGS all the time and spend nothing.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Nkelsch misses the elephant in the room again. IT IS CURRENTLY THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS IN THE UK. Guess what? GW's target market wants to participate in their hobby during their time off from school. Who'd have thunk it?

What "GW's target market" wants to do does not matter if they're minors and the shop does not want to serve as a babysitting service.

well how long were you there? isnt it only legally loitering if your there for an hour without buying anything?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Nkelsch misses the elephant in the room again. IT IS CURRENTLY THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS IN THE UK. Guess what? GW's target market wants to participate in their hobby during their time off from school. Who'd have thunk it?

What "GW's target market" wants to do does not matter if they're minors and the shop does not want to serve as a babysitting service.

Too bad.

Doesn't matter if it's GW or Tesco. Kids are gonna hang around since they're off school.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Nkelsch misses the elephant in the room again. IT IS CURRENTLY THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS IN THE UK. Guess what? GW's target market wants to participate in their hobby during their time off from school. Who'd have thunk it?

What "GW's target market" wants to do does not matter if they're minors and the shop does not want to serve as a babysitting service.

In the OP he said he was going to play a game until the GW troll asked where his rulebook is. I don't think he needs to babysit two players wargaming. All my rules are on my phone, bet they would love that.