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Ok, so the idea is to make a rock hard core around which to move my army so with that in mind I made this.

Eldrad

5 spirit seers, guardian helm, wraithforge, spear


2x3 bikes one with shuriken cannon
10 wraithblades w axes and shield

9 warp spiders w fast shot and ap1 rapidfire gun

3 dual scatter walkers
2x wraithknights one with suncannon and scatterlaser

The spiritseers and eldrad go into the wraithguard so they are effectively toughness 6. It is highly unlikely that with 10 rolls I won't get the armor buff once. So the buff/debuff bomb this unit becomes is maximized. Look outsirs will be on 2+ the whole time and it will be quite capable in combat due to the several wound on 2+ weapons. 4 rolls on runes of fate and divination will maximize my chances of
Fortune etc...

So, that is one nasty unit! But you don't have to put ALL your eggs in one basket. Spiritseers can be given to your guardians for buffing there as well. As far as your list....

Drop crushing blow from the avatar, it is rare you need it. Swords on each lord would serve you better.

The other seer can use a spear if you have points. Look into the special iyanden items as well, the stone and helmet would be useful.maybe the spear too.

For the guardian guns, one lance one scatter is probably best, it really depends on your meta. The scatter is more general.

Rangers are a very niche unit and generally don't do much but score and die, getting a kill now and then. One squad is usually sufficient, you can drop the other one for something more killy.

The missile lance combo was good, but now the missile is overcosted. Lords work best with dual lance, dual scatter or scatter star.

I agree, but with me running iyanden supplement , I don't get conceal. So most of the other powers won't do my guardians much good.I
have found that crushing blow puts the avatar over and above other mc's because he wounds most of them on 3+. I will definitely think about switching to scatterlaser/brightlance with the lords which will pay for a sword for each.

The rangers are good for just plinking from an objective, and I find they rarely draw much fire. They also can run from reserves to cap an objective.

I just think my list could benefit from the extra str 8 from two brightlances but scatterlaser guardians and brightlance guardians bring a bit more variety.

If your taking crushing blow to fight MC's, you should take monster hunter instead. You will only be wounding on a 4+, but re rolling fails more than makes up for it. It also lets you re roll to wound with your wailing doom, and costs the same as crushing blow.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:
I agree, but with me running iyanden supplement , I don't get conceal. So most of the other powers won't do my guardians much good.I
have found that crushing blow puts the avatar over and above other mc's because he wounds most of them on 3+. I will definitely think about switching to scatterlaser/brightlance with the lords which will pay for a sword for each.

The rangers are good for just plinking from an objective, and I find they rarely draw much fire. They also can run from reserves to cap an objective.

I just think my list could benefit from the extra str 8 from two brightlances but scatterlaser guardians and brightlance guardians bring a bit more variety.

That doesn't stop you from taking Warlocks, their Primaris is still Conceal/Reveal. Drop one Spiritseer for two Warlocks will yield a larger force multiplication.

Disarming Strike is better than Crushing blow, disarming a nasty Force Weapon is outstanding. Or taking away that ICs nasty Weapom, that ID Balesword... etc.

Brightlances are better on the Lords.

Run Scatterlasers on the Guardians.

AA may be a problem for you.

Though if you can manage to get Invisibility on your Wraithstar it will be absolutely nasty.


With all of that being said, 875pts is a bit crazy for a single unit that can't really shoot anything, has poor mobility, and doesn't have enough an army around it to buff.

@ Dr. Serling, thanks for the advice I never really thought about that.

@ zagman, true, but the ld8 combined with the guardians pulling so little agro means that I feel the warlocks are going to be waisted points compared to the two wound, ld9, mastery level 2 spirit seer. My plan is to have a couple of my seers roll on telepathy and mostly trade out for psychic scream to really capitalize on the minus 3 to target leadership power.

My new list is:
Farseer w guardian helm
Farseer runes of witnessing and spear
5 spiritseers
Avatar w fast shot and monster hunter

2x10 guardians w scatter laser
2x5 rangers
10 wraithguard

3x warwalkers w 2 scatterlaser
2x wraithlord w 2 brightlances and ghostglaive

I would try to go for a wraithknight with suncannon - scatter as this would give you stamina and if you take the wraithforge stone could regen wounds on wraith stuff. Would give you S6 ap2 stuff and be more durable than war walkers. It depends on what you need for guardians if you need more high S stuff then Brightlances, if you need more S6 dakka then SL. I agree with the Avatar - no crushing blow, fast shot is good +/- MH. Good luck and take everything that everyone says with a grain of salt. What works for one person, may not for another. Also you may once you play develop a play style that does not suit what someone would suggest in a list. Cheers.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I would try to go for a wraithknight with suncannon - scatter as this would give you stamina and if you take the wraithforge stone could regen wounds on wraith stuff. Would give you S6 ap2 stuff and be more durable than war walkers. It depends on what you need for guardians if you need more high S stuff then Brightlances, if you need more S6 dakka then SL. I agree with the Avatar - no crushing blow, fast shot is good +/- MH. Good luck and take everything that everyone says with a grain of salt. What works for one person, may not for another. Also you may once you play develop a play style that does not suit what someone would suggest in a list. Cheers.

Thanks for the exemplary reply Eiluj, I appreciate your advice here very much. In a 2000 point match today I found out that the avatar is not very useful, I would rather have had a suncannon wriathknight. I plan on looking at replacing one of my wriathlords bright lances to the scatterlaser, and dropping the avatar. I will then consolidate the guardians into a wonderful unit of 20 with two shuriken cannons. Drop the rangers to add two 3 man bike units (with cannon if I have the points) and if I can, I will find the points for upgrading a wraithknight to a suncannon wraith knight, although I really feel the bog standard one will do me better with what my list is already packing.
We will see. I find that the wriathstone is 30 points of waste in my list. I have 10 rolls on the runes of battle chart. It is extraordinarily likely that I will get atleast one renewer. When someone dedicates firepower at a wraithlord, I figure he is gonna die. so the 30 points to add a wound wont likely get much chance to be used.

For the record, I did get this list in against the following rough memory of a nid list

2x flyrant with dual devourers

2x tervigons with 3 rulebook powers
2x 10 shooty gaunts
15 devigaunts
15-20 hormagaunts
15-20 gargoyles

poding doom
poding dakka fex

2 biovores
1 venomthrope

I nearly won it, but we had to call it early at a very disadvantageous time due to how late it was.
He had 2synaps creatures left, both tyrants were dead, doom was dead, both spore pods were gone, the devigaunts, goyls, and carnifex were gone, and in my following turn, both tervigons would have died from the avatar and my war walkers alone. This list performed like a well greased cog, and had I played smarter with movement and charge blocking it would have been a even better game in my favor! Great lists, great fun, great game. After I get this list fine tuned tactically and strategically its going to be a top performer. I honestly think the only thing I fear is the nid list I faced, i really think its one of my roughest matchups. Even then my list and tactics put up a great fight!! Excited to continue playing!!!

Ok, so the list has been altered and runs a few points under 2k

It's played against a necron list and a tau list. It ran exaclt how I thought it would with the wraithblade unit being all but unstoppable tanking somewhere around 70 shots a turn, several of which were ap 2 and all were str 5 and higher. It simply doesn't die. You have to kill 5 toughness 6 2+ 4++ Rerollable saves before the toughness of the unit goes to 3. The rest of the list is just obstinate as well as the bikes just
sit in reserves until they have to leave. The psychic shenanigans the blob is capable of is just wrong haha. It was actually scarily easy to get the str of the blades to 8, 9 on the charge. And with their durability, they are nearly guaranteed to be able to swing.

All in all, I'm loving what this list brings to the table and the way it plays is just glorious

C&C?