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What is the best way to deal with each army's Terminator equivalent?

• SM/CSM - Terminators (duh. Most notable being the Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield variants. Special mention goes out to Paladins by way of being a byproduct of Ward-cheese)
• IG - Ogryns (I guess? IG don't really need or use TEQs, though)
• Eldar - Wraithguard/Wraithblades (tough and resilient with excellent gear, these might be the best TEQs in the game at the moment)
• Dark Eldar - Incubi? (though, they're really more MEQ than TEQ. Do DE even have a real Terminator equivalent?) (Yes, they do: Grotesques)
• Tau - Crisis Suits (excellent options, the only downside being their small unit cap. Probably second only to Eldar Wraiths). (my mistake. Apparently Broadsides are the Tau TEQ)
• Necron - Lychguard (well, it's probably supposed to be them, but compared to everyone else from the other races (no assault transport, no 2+ sv, can only have AP1 OR 4++, not both), kinda disappointing)
• Orks - Meganobz (though I hear people prefer regular Nobz for some reason. Not sure)
• Tyranid - Hive Guard? Zoanthroapes? Ymgarl Genestealers? (no idea, man. Have little to no experience with 'Nids. Apparently Warriors are pretty close, but people prefer other options).
• Daemons - Flesh hounds? (no big save, but a bunch of wounds and dirt cheap... not sure how that makes them TEQs, but then, I don't know much about Daemons). (Bloodcrushers or Fiends are apparently closer).

Probably a GK henchmen squad with a couple of death cult assassins shielded by a few more cheap crusaders with storm shields and power axes.

90 points gets you 18 S5/6 Ap2 attacks on the charge, and four stormshields to soak up the return hits just in case the DCA need another turn. And that's just for a half-sized squad. You can spend 180 points for 36 attacks behind eight storm shields.

... Not that they're all that likely to need all that, as they're a choice taken from "Codex: Prescience".

simple: lots of shots. eventually, they qill drop saves...

Speaking of Gk, your list of TEQ could add in Paladins. Term armor with 2 wounds vice 1 wound on regular termies.

Play against my Deathwing DA buddy. He can't roll termie saves for love or money. He sees more 1s than a binary code with a stutter.

Tyranids don't have anything remotely close to being called TEQ.

 skoffs wrote:
What is the best way to deal with each army's Terminator equivalent?
• Tyranid - Hive Guard? Zoanthroapes? Ymgarl Genestealers? (no idea, man. Have little to no experience with 'Nids)

The closest thing 'nids have to terminators are Warriors.
3 wounds with a 4+ save makes them roughly as resiliant to small arms fire. They have a similar points cost, and some strong close combat options.
However not many people take them, as they're expensive and get gibbed horribly by S8+ attacks.

That's how you deal with them really. Drop a battle cannon shell and watch them evaporate.

The Tau TEQ would be Bradsides. Crisis are multi-wound MEQ.

Eldar kills all TEQ with their large amount of AP 2 weapons.

If you are saying TEQ for 2+ save, Lychguard are right, but Wraiths have been the bigger hassle to deal with.

Daemons closest thing would be Flesh hounds. No big save, but a bunch of wounds and dirt cheap.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
If you are saying TEQ for 2+ save, Lychguard are right

But that's the problem: Lychguard DON'T have 2+ saves. They should by all rights (or at least have the option for it. THEN they would really be TEQs), but at the moment they're just T5 3+ sv with RP and the option to swap out their S7 AP1 Warscythes for Power swords and a 4++ inv ... nothing special, especially considering how good Wraiths are.
All us 'Cron players can hope for is that they get "fixed" when the next codex comes along in, what, two or three years?
*sigh*

Sisters of Battle - Meltaguns and Exorcists.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Tyranids don't have anything remotely close to being called TEQ.

I agree if we're talking about the durability.

Closest things to it would be Hive Tyrants with Guard? Swarmy? And then the answer is nothing...there is no answer to the Swarmlord besides staying out of his 24" wide bubble

Are you telling me there's nothing in the 'Nid codex with a 2+ save that's fairly killy that ISN'T an HQ?

Um...the Tyrannofex. But A Tyrannofex is more like an LRC than a TEQ.

To be fair though...Wraithguard have a 3+

Fair enough, but the T6 kind of compensates for that.
I would have thought if any army was going to have a load of high toughness / low save units, it would have been Tyranids... consider me educated otherwise, then.

Tyranids
Loads of T3 W1 6+ sv
Many T4 W2-3 4+ & 5+ sv
Tons of T6 W4 3+ sv

And theres a bunch of intermingling statlines in there.

Warriors are T4 3 wounds and 4+ save...much less survivable than terminators against many threats.

 skoffs wrote:
Are you telling me there's nothing in the 'Nid codex with a 2+ save that's fairly killy that ISN'T an HQ?

The Swarmlord would do quite a bit of damage to termies, would it not?

Doom of Malentai would do a number on them. Zoanthropes could as well.

Tyrant Guard from the HQ selection is the closest...as they're fairly similar to wraithguard stats

T6 W2 3+

For Necrons a TEQ could be Wraiths.
Just like with Terminators, they need 12 bolter-hits before they drop dread.

Oh yes, he nukes terminators...as do termagants...but we're discussing whether or not bugs have a TEQ like option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flesh Hounds also don't work for Daemons...Bloodcrushers or fiends would be the closest thing there. and then the answer would be long range RoF

Updating list.

And no, Necron Wraiths aren't TEQs, they're what you fight TEQs with. We all know Lychguard were supposed to be the Necron TEQ of the codex (slow moving, but tough, and very hard hitting)... but somebody dropped the ball when it came to their upgrades (only two options? no mixing of wargear in the squad? and most importantly, NO 2+ SAVES?!). This is the main reason why people don't bother taking them anymore.

Dark Eldar the equivolent role would be Grotesques not Incubi.

Incubi are MEQ with lots of AP2 close comabt attacks- they make TEQ cry

 skoffs wrote:
Are you telling me there's nothing in the 'Nid codex with a 2+ save that's fairly killy that ISN'T an HQ?

There are 2 models in the entire codex that can have a 2+ save.
Non-winged Hive Tyrant and the Tyrannofex. Neither of them are common builds IME.

rigeld2 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Are you telling me there's nothing in the 'Nid codex with a 2+ save that's fairly killy that ISN'T an HQ?

There are 2 models in the entire codex that can have a 2+ save.
Non-winged Hive Tyrant and the Tyrannofex. Neither of them are common builds IME.

Damn... that kinda sucks.
:/

 skoffs wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Are you telling me there's nothing in the 'Nid codex with a 2+ save that's fairly killy that ISN'T an HQ?

There are 2 models in the entire codex that can have a 2+ save.
Non-winged Hive Tyrant and the Tyrannofex. Neither of them are common builds IME.

Damn... that kinda sucks.
:/

And the only invuls we have are Zoanthropes, Doom of Mylanta (a Zoantrhope SC), Swarmlord in CC and...
Nope, that's it barring psychic powers.

In short - krak spam really hurts Nids.

B-but, the new codex is on its way soon, right?
...
right??

 skoffs wrote:
B-but, the new codex is on its way soon, right?
...
right??

We're most likely looking at Nidvember.

It's doubtful we get 2+ saves anywhere...not that we need them.

There's a bunch of wishlisting for invulns on synapse creatures...that could be plausible but I am also not expecting it.

Right now though we got Iron Arm...and Iron Arm can decimate games.

skoffs wrote:Lychguard DON'T have 2+ saves. They should by all rights (or at least have the option for it. THEN they would really be TEQs), but at the moment they're just T5 3+ sv with RP and the option to swap out their S7 AP1 Warscythes for Power swords and a 4++ inv

Wait, that's TEq.

If you hit a tactical terminator with a lascannon, you're looking at .55 dead terminators. You fire a lascannon at a 4++ lychguard and, after RP, you've got .28 dead lychguard. Repeat the experiment with a pair of bolter hits, and you're looking at .166 and .14

Put another way, lychguard are TOUGHER than terminators. The fact that they get RP pretty much negates the disadvantage of the worse armor save.

 Ailaros wrote:

skoffs wrote:Lychguard DON'T have 2+ saves. They should by all rights (or at least have the option for it. THEN they would really be TEQs), but at the moment they're just T5 3+ sv with RP and the option to swap out their S7 AP1 Warscythes for Power swords and a 4++ inv

Wait, that's TEq.

If you hit a tactical terminator with a lascannon, you're looking at .55 dead terminators. You fire a lascannon at a 4++ lychguard and, after RP, you've got .28 dead lychguard. Repeat the experiment with a pair of bolter hits, and you're looking at .166 and .14

Put another way, lychguard are TOUGHER than terminators. The fact that they get RP pretty much negates the disadvantage of the worse armor save.

Hmm, is that regular Lychguard or Sword&Shield Lychguard?

Regardless, I had always wondered why Plague Marines were often lauded for being so great with their T5 3+ sv, and yet Lychguard were considered crap for having the same thing.

What exactly is it that puts regular Terminators above Lychguard?