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Hi I am looking at staring a small 750 point Raven Guard army, tailored to the fluffy units...
This to me doesn't seem like a very competitive list but looks extremely fluffy and fun to play.

I would like your thoughts and suggestions on this list please.

195 - Shrike
105 - Assault Squad (5) - Flamer

100 - Scout Squad - Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper, CamoCloaks
100 - Scout Squad - Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper, CamoCloaks

170 - Tactical Squad (10)
050 - Drop Pod - Locator Beacon

720 - Total Points

The idea is to Drop Pod in the tactical squad, have the scouts on objectives providing cover fire for the Drop Pod then deep strike the assault squad with Shrike.
Extremely fluffy yet not very competitive...

I have 30 points left over. Not sure what equipment I should have on the tactical squad? Should I have Shrike (of course for fluff) but for competitiveness?

So what do you think? I am looking for you opinions on this list, I know it's hard because it is designed with fluff in mind but what could I do within reason to make it semi-competitive? - Thanks

With the 30 points, you could get a couple of weapon upgrades on the tac squad, I would suggest a meltagun to target a tank when dropping, and possibly a MM as well.

I would be hesitant to take Shrike at this level, as a captain with JP and 2LC is probably just as good for the theme and use the same model. SCs are generally better saved for 1500+ point games. This would make a few more points, and let you bring a few more upgrades or models.

Here is a thread I started some months ago and it's about Raven Guard theme list a friend of mine wanted to start :

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528037.page

hope this helps

Ahh yes already found/read that post, I got a few ideas off it thanks.

What about a chaplain instead of shrike? (w/ jumpack) not sure on weapons though...

Yes melta galore would be great on the tac squad, Meltagun and MultiMelta is good. (can the MM fire after they drop pod though?)

Would that bring it up to 750 or just under? Sorry don't have the codex on me atm. - Thanks

A chaplain in place of shrike could be good, as they do work well with ASM, but if you can make room, increase the size of the assault sqaud so you can get more from the chaplain.

MM and melta is a good setup for the tacticals, even chuck in a combi-melta on the sgt. No, the MM can't fire when they drop, but you should be able to shield it for a turn and take a shot on T2. It's still worthwhile, I reckon, although depending on how many tanks you usually see in your meta.

Here's a list along the same lines with the changes I menitoned.

Chaplain, Jump Pack: 115

Tactical Squad, Meltagun, MM, Combi-melta, meltabombs: 190
Drop pod, locator beacon: 50

10 scouts, Camo cloaks, missile launcher(will combat squad for more scoring): 180

10 assault marines,2x Flamer, meltabombs: 215

total: 750

I agree with the other poster about taking out shrike for a captain. Also, replace the assault squad with vanguard vets to allow assaults from deep strike, which is much more like raven guard than having to wait a turn.

 SilentScreamer wrote:
Also, replace the assault squad with vanguard vets to allow assaults from deep strike, which is much more like raven guard than having to wait a turn.

Not sure this is the best idea, at 750 vanguard are too expensive, and a full assault squad would be better than haff a squad of vets. Remember the tacs will also be in the enemy Deployement Zone, so it's not like the ASM are going solo and will get get cut to pieces by shooting.

That looks Perfect! Thanks very much indeed. I really like the look of it and it fits in really well with the fluff and everything!

Would it be better to have two missile launchers? - Thanks

2 missiles might be a bit better, although with the Melta-tastic tactical squad in the backfield from turn one, and then the meltabombs/krak grenades on the ASM should provide ample AT at this level. The probem is that to get 2 ML, you need 2 scout squads and therefore have to pay the premium for a Sgt twice. To fit this and another ML into the list, you would need to drop a flamer and the ML from the ASM, which in my opinion are more useful.

Yes I suppose so... No the list sounds really good as you said it, ML are just a minor thing... What about against flyers, any advice?

For clarification this list is ok with the half army reserve rule...?
3 units that can start on the field, half rounding up can start in reserve....?
So chaplain and assault can start in reserve with scout squad on the field....?

Also has their been a change with scouts? Not being able to move anywhere on the table (within reason) during the deployment phase? Might be completely wrong but thought I saw it mentioned somewhere....?

Against flyers, your best bet will be to largely ignore them. I say this because the ASM and tacs will in theory be within the enemy deloyment zone early on. so most flyers without vector dancer will not actully be able to target you unless they have turret weapons. Heldrakes are still an issue, but at this level I imagine you will be unlikely to see one in friendly games.

Regarding reserves, the tacs and drop pod don't count as they have to go in reserve, giving you a 1-2 split of units on the table to units in reserve. I'm not sure then how combat squads interacts with this, as both are determined 'at deplyment'. I'd say ask your opponent before the game how they would play it. If they say that comabt squads count as 2 then you're good to go, if not then just start the ASM on the table and run up in cover as fast as you can. You should still reach combat by turn 3 either way.

not sure what you mean about the scouts, as far as I am aware they still have infiltrate (can deploy within 18" of the enemy in LOS, or 12" if out of LOS).

Ok, thanks, yeah I'm not to sure what I heard about scouts either tbh.

I'm really pleased with how this list has turned out. It looks really good. Would you expect it to change much after the space marine codex release? (change in point values etc)

On the whole, point values are going to drop a bit, especially for tacs, Raven Guard are set to gain stealth which should give the scouts a better cover save and help you get closer to the enemy with the ASM while taking less casualties. Other than that, it's set to remain largely the same.

Cool this list sounds promising then. Do you think there will be a bit of trouble in the survivabilty if the drop pod and tac squad?

Also, for deep striking does the chaplain and assault squad require one roll or one roll each? (The latter could be an issue...?)

I would say the survivability of the tac squad is not really an issue, as they will likely be backed up by the ASM on turn 2. If you are worried about this, you could also swap the scouts for another DP tac squad (note: you can't quite afford this at the moment, but with the new codex they should be cheaper so you shoud be able to). This would mean you would have to run the ASM and chaplain across, but with stealth and JP this shoudn't be that much of an issue. This will also allow you to play far more agrssively and get right in the opponent's lines with 30 marines by turn 2.

Re: reserves and the ASM/chaplain, you declare he is part of the squad when you deploy, and only have to make one reserve roll for both.

The key with this kind of list is force concentration. Target one part of the enemy army at a time with all your strength, and then move on. In an army vs army fight, SM will probaly be outnumbered and lose, but by concentrating on taking the enemy apart piecemeal you'll be far more effective.

Ok thanks I think I'll hold on to the scouts for now. What would you suggest for expanding to 1000? I was thinking teleporting terminators... Something else would have to footslog though... Close Combat scouts with locator beacon for options?
Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wha if the drop pod was taken out entirely and scouts with locator beacons used to bring the strike force down? I think I prefer the DP but just as another option?

For going to 1k points, I would take a stormtalon for AA, s fliers become more comon at that level. Then, see if you can get in another tac squad in a pod. I don't quite think you can afford this as-is, but in the new codex you might as marines are set to be a bit cheaper. Perhaps a squad with a more anti-infantry setup, as you have AT covered. Flamer, combi-flamer, HB, or something similar. Neither of those units count towards reserve limits either, so you're still fine for deplyoment.

To go up to 1500, once you have the core of the army, it's really a case of what you want to add. Shrike will be ok here, as will some termies to add more CC, but really, this is the point you can start taking more cool and specialised stuff.

If you take out the DP, you will be forced to play more defensive, as the Tacs will start on the board and only the ASM can DS. I'd say keep the pod to be honest, it is cool, fluffy and useful.

Ok thanks I will keep the pod

As a side note though I was thinking two separate scout snipers w/ ML, then two free equipment scouts with locator beacons. (no tac squad)
They would guide in the assault, up to four individual deep striking units.
Not as diverse nor fun as the drop pod but is this technically sound at 1000 points? - Thanks

Not sure, I would say keep the tacs if at all possible, they should really be the core of any marine army. The scouts have their place, and it is purely a support role, allowing the marines to do the major damage. As such, you don't want to be putting too many points into them.

If you want locators, then take them on the pods, as they are possibly more survivalble than scouts as people often overlook them. Here is a list I would use for this style at 1000 points:

Chaplain, Jump Pack: 115

10 Tactical marines, Flamer, heavy bolter: 170
Drop pod, Locator Beacon: 50

10 Tactical marines, meltagun, muilti-melta: 175
Drop pod: 35

10 Scouts, sniper rifles: 145

10 Assault marines, flamer, meltabombs: 215

Ageis defence line, quad gun: 100

1000 points.
Scouts deploy in combat squads, holding objectives behind the ADL (no points for camo cloaks but still survivable). One DP with locator comes in T1, and on T2, the ASM and other DP drop nearby without scattering. Proceed to kill things. Simple, but effective.

Ahh yes that makes a lot of sense.

So the base units I should be looking at getting first reguardless of changes in the next codex would be:
1x Tactical Squad
1x Drop Pod
2x Assault Squads
2x Scout Squads

Pretty much, also a JP chaplain if you have the money (it is such an awesome model). But other than that, then yeah, that's a good core and will get you able to play right away.

Oh yes forgot the chaplain. As a basic 750 points (I know we've gone over this already...) Just to get the extra ML in:

115 - Chaplain, JP
210 - Assault Squad (10) - 2x Flamer

175 - Tactical Squad (10) MG, MM
050 - Drop Pod, Locator Beacon

100 - Scout Squad (5) 4x Sniper, ML, CamoCloaks
100 - Scout Squad (5) 4x Sniper, ML, CamoCloaks

I was just think of this list as an alternative, just so it spreads out the weaponry a bit to target more units....? - Thanks

To be honest, that's really as good as it gets for marines at 750, so go for it. If/when the points go down in the new codex, you can still use the same models, just get meltabombs for the ASM/tacs or something.

Awesome thanks very much for all your help it's been invaluable.

The only thing that won't come in the boxes is the MM....?

Would I be able to continue to post on this thread and you would still find it (even if it's a while from now)?

Thanks

Yeah, you'll be short an MM, but you should be able to get one for not that much on ebay. Just make sure you get the SM one with the proper backpack, rather than an IG one.

Posting in the thread after it's been dormant a while is generally not allowed, it depends on how long you leave it.

I would suggest, once you have the models and start playing, put up a thread in the tactics forum, as I think more people will see it there.

If you need more advice between now and then, then post in tactics or PM me.

Ok thanks, much appreciated. Can't wait to play it