Future of SOB

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**Melissia**

pretre wrote:
Celestine - 115 - $20
Battle Sisters Squad x2 - 7 Sisters ea, 1 Melta, 1 Flamer, 1 Superior - 140 - $72.3
Rhino (Search)(Immolator Kit) x2 - 36 - $37.25
2 Exorcists - 135 - $57.75 ea
Dominions - 2 Sisters, 2 Melta, 1 Superior - 90 - 43.55
Immolator (Dozer, Search and TLMM)- 86 - $37.25
Retributors - 1 Superior, 4 Heavy Bolters - 85
993 Points
[snip]

Looks good to me, but I think he also wanted you to explain why.

**pretre**

Melissia wrote:
pretre wrote:
Celestine - 115 - $20
Battle Sisters Squad x2 - 7 Sisters ea, 1 Melta, 1 Flamer, 1 Superior - 140 - $72.3
Rhino (Search)(Immolator Kit) x2 - 36 - $37.25
2 Exorcists - 135 - $57.75 ea
Dominions - 2 Sisters, 2 Melta, 1 Superior - 90 - 43.55
Immolator (Dozer, Search and TLMM)- 86 - $37.25
Retributors - 1 Superior, 4 Heavy Bolters - 85
993 Points
[snip]
Looks good to me, but I think he also wanted you to explain why.

True, true.

Basically, this gives you a solid basis for SOB at 1000 points that is easy to expand as you move up points. Solid scoring with BSS. Exos and Rets give you decent long range and the Dominions allow you to provide first turn threat from scout or second turn threat through outflanking.

**godswildcard**

Cool. That's a pretty flexible starter force by my standards.

Also, I have an idea, but why did you choose the immolator kits as the rhinos?

I've always like the aesthetic of SOB, and I think that they really aren't as bad off as most would make them out to be.

BTW, for ease of reference, what issue WD was it that had the SOB army list?

**ClockworkZion**

godswildcard wrote:
Cool. That's a pretty flexible starter force by my standards.

Also, I have an idea, but why did you choose the immolator kits as the rhinos?

I've always like the aesthetic of SOB, and I think that they really aren't as bad off as most would make them out to be.

BTW, for ease of reference, what issue WD was it that had the SOB army list?

Immolator kits are also the Sister's Rhino kits and just look cooler than the Marine ones.

I don't know the issue numbers off hand as I cut mine apart to make a codex out of the appropiate pages but they were the august and September 2011 issues.

**pretre**

godswildcard wrote:
Also, I have an idea, but why did you choose the immolator kits as the rhinos?

For the same price as the normal rhino, you trade the SM accessory sprue for the vastly superior Immolator sprue which comes with a host of SOB bits, an Immolator turret, a Storm Bolter cupola and a bunch of other stuff.

BTW, for ease of reference, what issue WD was it that had the SOB army list?

379 + 380, US. If I remember correctly.

**Troike**

pretre wrote:
For the same price as the normal rhino, you trade the SM accessory sprue for the vastly superior Immolator sprue which comes with a host of SOB bits, an Immolator turret, a Storm Bolter cupola and a bunch of other stuff.

The Immolator kits also comes with two sets of instructions, one to assemble it as an Immolator, one to assemble it as a Rhino. It's where you're supposed to get an SoB Rhino. But rather oddly, the GW website does not mention the kit's dual purpose and has the Space Marine Rhino for sale in the SoB's dedicated transport section. Why, if one wanted to take a cynical view, you could accuse GW of hoping that people building an SoB army mistakenly buy both...

Edit: actually, now that i think about it, people are going to have to buy the Immolator kit mutliple times to field the tanks they want to anyway. I suppose it's more of an oversight on GW's part.

Lynata wrote:
If GW really wanted to, they could just continue selling the current miniatures. As mentioned above, they wouldn't get much cheaper anyways even if they switch to plastics. Or they could just do plastic versions of their current minis and keep semi-fixed postures and can this ridiculous "we want flowing robes" stuff if this is really what has been holding the army back for Emperor-knows-how-many-years.

I think it's pretty obvious that they vastly prefer posable, plastic minis. So like it or not, that's probably what they're aiming for. Not that I mind at all, as was said previously, multi-part plastics give lots of significant advatages.

Lynata wrote:
I find it much more plausible that nobody in the studio actually wants to take proper ownership of them. Andy Hoare used to be the driving force behind them. Now that he's gone, Sisters are put aside. Maybe that'll change some day, but I'm not willing to bet any hopes on it.

Phil Kelly did express interest in doing them, and there's three devs that have them as their main armies. So it's not like there's zero enthusiasm to do them. And like a said, I'd imagine that modelling issues were also a large factor in their slowed updates, not just Hoare leaving. Though granted had he been there, there might have been more push into working on said modelling issues.

**laginess**

Thank you so much on all your insight thus far. I've begun teaching my friend the rules with my own minis (though we're stuck in 5th ed till I can get the 6th book

). I'll get him on dakka and direct him to this thread so he can begin learning more about the community and get started.
You guys are awesome!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, can anyone tell me how I go to backorder those issues or if there is another way to get the sisters dex?

**Lynata**

Troike wrote:Phil Kelly did express interest in doing them, and there's three devs that have them as their main armies.

Would that be the devs whose armies were still unpainted even on the official GW website article, the ones who managed to mislabel the support troops in the WD Codex, or the ones who either didn't know or didn't care for the rules they themselves have written in the SoB Battle Report?

Apologies for the cynism, but as I said, I've been hearing "talk" for way too long. I don't see the Sisters being squatted or other such unfounded rumours that certain people are propagating, but at the same time I'm not expecting anything from GW right now.

laginess wrote:I'll get him on dakka and direct him to this thread so he can begin learning more about the community and get started.

Wiz. Be sure to point him to the SoB tactics thread, but if he has any questions about the army as a whole he should feel free to post them here. As with most/all armies of the game, SoB players tend to stick together, and there's a number of gamers here who have specialised in different aspects of them.

laginess wrote:Also, can anyone tell me how I go to backorder those issues or if there is another way to get the sisters dex?

I got mine through e-bay. Look for the issue numbers, not something like "Codex Sisters of Battle", as the latter are supposedly much higher priced due to their collector status. Look for global offers, too, not just continental. It may also pay off to contact magazine stores directly, for often they have back issues stored somewhere you can get for cheap. That's how I've got half a dozen issues of ancient White Dwarf for about 2 bucks per piece a few months ago (just wanted to have them for some fluff articles).

Of course, rumours also have it that certain websites which may or may not be locatable via various internet search engines may or may not have the Codex as PDF. But of course dakka does not support piracy and so we would never publicly post about such things. *ahem*

**ClockworkZion**

In the VERY worse case scenario that Sisters get dropped, play them as Count As Salamanders and use a Canoness with a Halbred as Vulkan (this means the joy of converting a metal model, yes, but it'd be worth it!).

That's my personal plan if they ever get the boot. I have a 3K+ Army of Sisters that I could convert into a Count-As Salamanders army that would have even better flamers, meltas and Master Crafted Power Mauls. Yeah, it's a decent back-up plan I think.

**labmouse42**

Lynata wrote:
labmouse42 wrote:Then the army will be quite playable and affordable.
What makes you think that?

Battle Sisters - 3 Metal Sisters of Battle for £10.75
Price per miniature: £3.58

Space Marine Combat Squad - 5 plastic Tactical Marines for £15.50
Price per miniature: £3.10

Do they not sell 10 man squads over there?
$37.25 - 10 man tactical squad. $3.75 per model.
$17.25 - 3 battle sisters. $5.75 per model.
That's 65% cheaper than the metal models. I'll grant you, that's cheap for GW prices -- which are not -- but that's a lot more bearable than the current prices.

Furthermore plastics will let you have a wide configuration of poses, and unique models. With metal sisters, every 3rd sister is the same.

**pretre**

labmouse42 wrote:
With metal sisters, every 3rd sister is the same.

Every 7th.

**Nevelon**

pretre wrote:
labmouse42 wrote:
With metal sisters, every 3rd sister is the same.

Every 7th.

And with multi-part plastics, you don't get to pull the pins out of grenades with your teeth. That sister is probably my favorite mini in the range, love her. There are some perks with mono-pose metals.

**pretre**

Nevelon wrote:
And with multi-part plastics, you don't get to pull the pins out of grenades with your teeth. That sister is probably my favorite mini in the range, love her. There are some perks with mono-pose metals.

Well, the great bit is you can get the OOP metals and mix them in with your new plastics.

**Troike**

Personally, I'm in full favour of multi-part plastics because that would mean bitz for sale. I've got a Seraphim Superior that I really want to equip with a second pistol and an eviscerator (would magnetise the arms so they can be switched as needed), but the only way to get the necessary parts is with the Canoness model, which I don't really want to buy just as a source of bitz. With plastics, single components like bolt pistols and such would be avaliable to buy online. It's just very convinient having a model in seperate components, see. Also, plastics would likely get Sisters an in-store presence again. Whicn they really need.

But yes, the grenade Sister is pretty awesome. That is a valid point.

Lynata wrote:
Would that be the devs whose armies were still unpainted even on the official GW website article, the ones who managed to mislabel the support troops in the WD Codex, or the ones who either didn't know or didn't care for the rules they themselves have written in the SoB Battle Report?

Possibly. Though a proper codex would likely have a tad more fact-checking done. The only point I'm making with the devs thing is at least we've got people on the inside who care, so it's not like SoB are completely forgotten by GW's staff.

Lynata wrote:
I'm not expecting anything from GW right now.

Neither am I. Sisters are probably a ways off, but I'm confident we'll see them eventually.

**Lynata**

Grenade Sister ftw!

labmouse42 wrote:Do they not sell 10 man squads over there?

They do - but that's just GW manipulating the prices. I chose the Combat Squad because it was the closest to the 3 Sisters pack.

GW used to sell the 10 Battle Sisters in a single box, and they could easily do so again right now. They just don't want to because they make more money with the smaller packs (as evidenced by the price difference between the Marines).

**pretre**

Lynata wrote:
GW used to sell the 10 Battle Sisters in a single box, and they could easily do so again right now. They just don't want to because they make more money with the smaller packs (as evidenced by the price difference between the Marines).

We have no knowledge of why they swapped. Personally, I think it is because they are lazy and it is easier to just sell them by the blister than to make up 10 sister boxes. And the ten sister boxes had the worst special weapons loadout anyways (Storm Bolter, Flamer, IIRC).

**Troike**

Could be partly due to a general distaste for metal models on GW's part. I don't think that there's any metal models in the stores anymore. They really want to "move past" metal models, it seems.

**Lynata**

But they still sell Valhallans, Steel Legion and Mordians in large boxes, at a price of £2.05 per miniature ...

Which is kind of funny, considering that plastic Cadians are just 20 pence per mini cheaper.

**Troike**

Hmmm, odd. Can't say I've ever seen them at my GW, but maybe they're around in the bigger shops.

**-Loki-**

They no longer sell metal models in GW stores. That doesn't mean GW don't still sell them (though they're running stock down and not producing more), since they don't even stock their entire Finecast range in their own stores due to lack of shelf space.

**Jefffar**

I think what we saw with the Black Templars and the recent Marine codex may be a preview of what is in store for the Sisters. I fully expect them to be subsumed into or released as a suppliment for either Imperial Guard or Inquisition.

Now, I don't envision this as an end to the Sisters. Far from it. I see it as a means to make them more playable with the ability to use other Imperial units as their own, much like happened back in 3rd edition.

The one shining hope I can give to those still wanting an independent Sisters force is that, unlike the Black Templars, they were given a full set of model pictures in the 6th Ed rulebook.

**Troike**

Jefffar wrote:
I think what we saw with the Black Templars and the recent Marine codex may be a preview of what is in store for the Sisters. I fully expect them to be subsumed into or released as a suppliment for either Imperial Guard or Inquisition.

Now, I don't envision this as an end to the Sisters. Far from it. I see it as a means to make them more playable with the ability to use other Imperial units as their own, much like happened back in 3rd edition.

The one shining hope I can give to those still wanting an independent Sisters force is that, unlike the Black Templars, they were given a full set of model pictures in the 6th Ed rulebook.

Why? A full Inquisition book would be horribly bloated (note how they've never done one before), and they have nothing to do with the IG, so no reason to put them in there.

Also, Sisters ain't Templars. Just because something happened to them isn't proof it'll happen to the Sisters.

Edit: Oh, 'nother point. Thus far, it appears that supplements are dedicated to subfactions within armies. Not entire armies. This would be the equivilant of folding the Dark Eldar and Eldar together into one codex and then releasing a Dark Eldar supplement for it.

**Lynata**

The Black Templars started out as a sub-segment of the Codex Space Marines, then had their own book for two editions, and now have returned to the C:SM.
The Sisters of Battle started out as their own independent army, then became a sub-segment of Codex Witchhunters, and now have returned to their own book.

[edit] Well, or .. magazine, rather. You know what I mean.

**Eldercaveman**

Could we possibly be looking at sisters/witch hunters supplement for the grey knights codex?

**godswildcard**

All of this talk has be considering a 1000 point army to add to my apocalypse mix. Any mention of the Sisters on Armageddon?...

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
labmouse42 wrote:
With metal sisters, every 3rd sister is the same.

Every 7th.

That reminds me. I'd done a full count of how many unique models Sisters actually have at the moment (using my collection and the GW site). This was originally posted on Heresy-Online in response to the claim that Sisters don't have a "lot" of different models.

Just for fun I'm going to rundown the models by FOC, the Battle Sisters variants will be listed in troops since everyone else just borrows those though (numbers next to models will cover the number of different models a particular choice has). This isn't to prove anything you said wrong, but to address this idea with some specifics since that gets brought up a lot and even I don't know exactly how many models there are. So here goes:

HQs: 13 Total - Canoness, Jacobus, Kyrinov, Celestine, Diagolus, Hospitaller, Sister with Blessed Banner, 2 Death Cult Assassins, 2 Crusaders, 2 Arco-Flagallants (Yes I know the Battle Conclave shares stuff with the Grey Knights, but so do almost all of the Marine variants so I've included them here for completeness)
Elites: 8 Total - 4 Repentia, Mistress of Repentance, 3 Preachers
Troops: 22 Total 7 Bolter Sisters, 2 Flamers, 2 Melta, 2 Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta, Sister with Simulacrum Imperalis, 5 Sister Superiors
Fast Attack: 5 Total - 2 Seraphim, Seraphim with Hand Flamers, 2 Seraphim Superiors
Heavy Support: 2 Total - Exorcist, Penitent Engine
Dedicated Transports: 1 Total (it's the same model, it just builds two things) - Immolator

Forge World of course adds 3 Flyers, the Repressor and an alternate Exorcist into the mix, but this is about GW's support.

So what's that give Sisters for their line exactly? 51 different models in their line, some that are spread through multiple FOCs. Honestly that's not too bad overall for a line of models from 2nd Edition (save a couple of toys that were added in 3rd). There were a few more variants but those have been discontinued over the years (to include another Canoness model, and a different Banner model).

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could we possibly be looking at sisters/witch hunters supplement for the grey knights codex?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-no.

Seriously, that comes up every so often because people seem to be unaware that Sisters aren't a branch of the Inquisition. They weren't intended to be when they were created either. It was fixed in 5th and I don't see it being undone again when GW seems content with putting the Inquisitors in one book.

**godswildcard**

Is the Penitent Engine any good? Cause I've always loved that model.

**Madcat87**

godswildcard wrote:
Is the Penitent Engine any good? Cause I've always loved that model.

Close combat focused walkers have poor performance across the board in 6th. An AV11 open-topped one much worse.

**godswildcard**

Let's break the game with it. Give it outflanking and a form of heroic intervention. Or make it a flyer with an AP3 Flamer :-P

**Lynata**

godswildcard wrote:All of this talk has be considering a 1000 point army to add to my apocalypse mix. Any mention of the Sisters on Armageddon?...

Yes, actually. More than usual:

http://web.archive.org/web/20021005045643/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/imp_forces.html
This is a backup of GW's global campaign website for the Third War of Armageddon. As you can see, two Major Orders are mentioned as participants - clicking on their name will bring up some cool fluff about them. Also take a look at the entry about the Fleshtearers, as that one includes a communique from Canoness Carmina. The "Campaign News" section also has a few more bits about them in the Hive Tempestora and Fire Wastes entries.

Eldercaveman wrote:Could we possibly be looking at sisters/witch hunters supplement for the grey knights codex?

Why? That's a pretty random thought. They have very little to do with each other - even making them a supplement for Codex Space Marines would make more sense.

Come to think of it, that's almost how they started out. Shortly before their 2nd edition Codex release, GW published the stats for the standard Battle Sister squad as a preview in White Dwarf. You could use them as allies in your IG and SM armies.

Spoiler:

T4. Take that!