Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Daba wrote:
Shooting from reserves should probably have some penalty as well, but it's good that assaulting from reserve is gone.

And when nobody can do anything from reserves, everyone will finally have to be on board by turn one to be competitive.

Excellent.

No assault from Outflank or Deep Strike may be ok. But no assault from regular reserves is just dumb. Counter-assault units are now completely useless thanks to this... :/

 xttz wrote:
This is what I've never understood. I've seen so many units wiped out by deep-striked short-range firepower that can reliably nuke a given target without risk.

What you're missing is that targets which you want to deep strike against tend to be backfield support units that you can't reach easily by just moving forward from your deployment zone. So sure, you can pod in sternguard, if for some reason that devastator squad is sitting out in the open. But in reality they're probably in a ruin or behind an ADL, so they can go to ground and shrug off most of the sternguards' shooting with a 2+ cover save. Meanwhile the sternguard are almost certainly dead before they get to shoot again.

Deep striking shooting is only an auto-kill against vehicles where 2+ cover is impossible and even a single unsaved melta hit can kill an entire unit. Deep striking and assaulting, on the other hand, is almost guaranteed to kill any of those targets with little retaliation.

Isn't intercept the great equalizer for stuff like this. more blast/large blast interceptor weapons or abilities/wargear that give units interceptor and assaulting from reserves wouldn't be considered broken

 Peregrine wrote:

 xttz wrote:
This is what I've never understood. I've seen so many units wiped out by deep-striked short-range firepower that can reliably nuke a given target without risk.

What you're missing is that targets which you want to deep strike against tend to be backfield support units that you can't reach easily by just moving forward from your deployment zone. So sure, you can pod in sternguard, if for some reason that devastator squad is sitting out in the open. But in reality they're probably in a ruin or behind an ADL, so they can go to ground and shrug off most of the sternguards' shooting with a 2+ cover save. Meanwhile the sternguard are almost certainly dead before they get to shoot again.

Deep striking shooting is only an auto-kill against vehicles where 2+ cover is impossible and even a single unsaved melta hit can kill an entire unit. Deep striking and assaulting, on the other hand, is almost guaranteed to kill any of those targets with little retaliation.

On the flipside, assaulting from Outflank has its own drawbacks. The enemy might have an interceptor with a pie plate (like Tau), you might end up on the entire wrong side of the board, you might eat some oddy successful Overwatch fire or you might be assaulting something in an Aegis line while your assault troops just don't have assault grenades( ).

Removing assault from reserves makes sense - but only in a world where you can't shoot from reserves. Or even make anything not a flyer arriving from reserves only able to Snapshot. That'd be a nice equaliser.

 Kain wrote:
And when nobody can do anything from reserves, everyone will finally have to be on board by turn one to be competitive.
Excellent.

And when everyone's super!
...NO-ONE will be.

I do think it's nice to have a unit or two that can still pull it off, as something special. I do agree with the change in 6th so that you can't pull it off with weird tricks like Red Paint Job, sideways-deploying transports, and other shenanigans. But a unit that's actually designed to assault on arrival like Vanguard or Ymgarl makes for a bit of punch in armies that, frankly, need it at the moment.

 -Loki- wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Bell says that the turn ymgarls and lictors come out of reserve all enemy shots at them are snap shots only.

it doesn't say that at all. It says

Ymgarl Genestealers - New special arrival rule is shared with the Lictor, may now purchase standard Genestealer biomorph upgrades.

Ymgarls and Lictors will share their deployment method. I underlined the important part - new special arrival rule. As in there's a new rule that both Lictos and Ymgarls share, if the rumour is correct. So no, we have no idea if they will be able to assault from reserves, all we know is there's potentially a new rule that both units share. Unless they've expanded on it elsewhere, that is, as I've only been following some of the rumours here.

Check this out then.

Lictors – small point increase, gain new “Surprise!” rule (all shots against Lictors the turn after they appear are snap shots). DeathLeaper now an upgrade character.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/08/40k-rumors-hivemind-is-coming.html

until we.see.a book, we.kind of have to use the rules we have.

 ductvader wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Bell says that the turn ymgarls and lictors come out of reserve all enemy shots at them are snap shots only.

it doesn't say that at all. It says

Ymgarl Genestealers - New special arrival rule is shared with the Lictor, may now purchase standard Genestealer biomorph upgrades.

Ymgarls and Lictors will share their deployment method. I underlined the important part - new special arrival rule. As in there's a new rule that both Lictos and Ymgarls share, if the rumour is correct. So no, we have no idea if they will be able to assault from reserves, all we know is there's potentially a new rule that both units share. Unless they've expanded on it elsewhere, that is, as I've only been following some of the rumours here.

Check this out then.

Lictors – small point increase, gain new “Surprise!” rule (all shots against Lictors the turn after they appear are snap shots). DeathLeaper now an upgrade character.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/08/40k-rumors-hivemind-is-coming.html

Not a bad idea, and nicely adds survivability if they're dead set on removing assault from reserves. Add to that they can (or will, depending on the new rule) deploy in cover, it'll be pretty hard to dislodge them before they assault.