Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

CCS
MoO
Reg. Banner
Chimera

10x Ratlings

Veterans
3x Plasma, Chimera

Veterans
3x Plasma, Chimera

Manticore
Camo Net

2x Basilisk
Camo Nets

2x Basilisk
Camo Nets

Aegis, Quadgun

*I put in the ratlings to deal with high toughness 'nids, chaos, or CSM units

 CaptObvious wrote:
CCS
MoO
Reg. Banner
Chimera

10x Ratlings

Veterans
3x Plasma, Chimera

Veterans
3x Plasma, Chimera

Manticore
Camo Net

2x Basilisk
Camo Nets

2x Basilisk
Camo Nets

Aegis, Quadgun

*I put in the ratlings to deal with high toughness 'nids, chaos, or CSM units

In my opinion you need a lot more troops. You only have 20 scoring GEQ bodies hiding in chimeras, which most armies will be able to kill turn one, which means that you will loose almost all objective games, unless you can table your opponent. I suggest dropping all the camo nets, and perhaps a basilisk or two and adding in some more Veterans with meltas in chimeras or an infantry platoon with meltas on foot depending on your preferences.

To be honest, this list has two good components in the artillery and mech, but they don't match well, with one being defensive and immobile, and the other relying on speed and aggression. I'd say the artillery would work well with a couple of large platoons, but the mech guard are better supported by russes and hellhound variants.

I'll also second the comment above that you need more troops.

The camo netting is situational at best, as really the artillery should be behind LOS-blocking terrain, and only in cover as a secondary option.

It's all or nothing. I don't have any arguments against what you're saying, this is a pretty imbalanced list.

If I'm able to cripple his alpha strike, I can dismantle his army in the second half of the game. If I don't get his alpha strike, things will go terrifically bad. He has to get through 6 large blasts, 6 plasma guns, a quad gun and 10 ratlings. If he fails to get across and do some damage, the rest is target practice.

As for the lack of troops - I'm hoping that I can win by inflicting massive casualties, rather than spreading troops out all over the table. Veterans are amazing, but they're not exactly sturdy, or aggressive. Either the table will clear and I can drive them out on turn 4 or I'll have already lost.

Thanks for the opinions and advice. I fully expect that this could be a catastrophic failure. I'll post the results!

Ah, I see the plan, and what you mean about going extremely well or badly. Well, good luck, and the game should be fun either way. With that much artillery, you're bound to have a blast.

So, having artillery to hit hard while the mechvets provide defensive cover is fine as a strategy, but your list is going to have problems achieving this. Mostly because none of your heavy hitters are Ap2 or better. This means that you are stuck chiseling HP off of vehicles, and wounds off of MCs (slowly). And you're not saying much to terminators, and you sort of can't even shoot at fliers.

Basically, you're not doing much to handle hard targets, much less those hard targets that are particularly popular at the moment like riptides (who will eat right through those artillery pieces once markerlights strip away their cover saves), and fliers.

Pretty much the easiest way to fix some of this is to swap the basilisks for medusas, but even then... you only have one kind of killing power... and it has holes. If you really want to make this list work well, you're going to have to drop some stuff to fill in the gaps. If you don't want to start by dropping artillery, then dropping those ratlings (which aren't a serious counter to MCs, much less the other stuff), and the CCS down to something that can bum a ride in a chimera (like a psyker or lord commissar) would be a good start.

Paradigm wrote:Ah, I see the plan, and what you mean about going extremely well or badly. Well, good luck, and the game should be fun either way. With that much artillery, you're bound to have a blast.

HAHAHAHA! Thanks. It's CSM, so I'm expecting the game to be somewhat chaotic.

Ailaros wrote:So, having artillery to hit hard while the mechvets provide defensive cover is fine as a strategy, but your list is going to have problems achieving this. Mostly because none of your heavy hitters are Ap2 or better. This means that you are stuck chiseling HP off of vehicles, and wounds off of MCs (slowly). And you're not saying much to terminators, and you sort of can't even shoot at fliers.

Basically, you're not doing much to handle hard targets, much less those hard targets that are particularly popular at the moment like riptides (who will eat right through those artillery pieces once markerlights strip away their cover saves), and fliers.

Pretty much the easiest way to fix some of this is to swap the basilisks for medusas, but even then... you only have one kind of killing power... and it has holes. If you really want to make this list work well, you're going to have to drop some stuff to fill in the gaps. If you don't want to start by dropping artillery, then dropping those ratlings (which aren't a serious counter to MCs, much less the other stuff), and the CCS down to something that can bum a ride in a chimera (like a psyker or lord commissar) would be a good start.

As always, I appreciate your feedback Ailaros. This is probably a one time thing, just to see what heavy support spam can do. I know the CSM player really well, I know what he'll have on the table. He's usually mr. cultist spam, with some AV12 mech, some kind of alpha bikes or spawn, and he runs some Tau allies. I agree, I could go with more AP2 ... I just want to see what happens, so I can use the knowledge in future lists. I don't know how S9 barrage works on vehicles, but I'm going to find out.

So, I'm still buying models, and these experiments will help me determine if I want to buy 2-3 basilisks, or if I need more chimeras, or more vets, etc. My plan is to pick up 2 basililsks and then ill have enough chimeras (5) to cover the 2 basilisk and 1 manticore that I have. That should make for a good enough selection for future lists.

Ok, I got nervous and went more balanced. Sorry, I did enough thinking on my way to and from work to know that I was probably walking into defeat.

Mostly the same list, minus 2 basilisks and 10 ratlings, and some additions. I went with 2 basilisks, 1 manticore, 4 chimeras with CCS and veterans, plasma and melta, and 1 vendetta. Then I brought 2 scout sentinels with LCs.

Expecting night first turn, I thought the scouts could help put light on key units so I could blast them with artillery. However, it was not night, so instead of being spotlights with legs, they actually got me first blood. It was nice, but being only AV10, they could give my enemy first blood in future games, which is bad. I suppose I would hide them better if I were to go second.

Then I was able to put enough blasts on, so that his spawn, bikers, and 2 rhinos, arrived undermanned (or did not arrive). The plasma and melta finished them off.

The most frustrating fight was in the air. My Vendetta got shot to pieces, so his helldrake went unchecked for the last part of the game.

Anyway, I won. It was close, due to some tactical errors on my part. Never the less, I was able to do the damage that I needed to do, and keep my head when my chimeras were exploding. I could have done with a reg banner, being so close to the board edge. I was very close to losing squads to failed moral.

The chimera/veteran wall held together, the artillery hit often enough. The scouts caused a delay in the alpha strike. Good game!

Well done on the win. That list does look far more balanced, and better on the whole. With regards to the Scout Sents giving first blood, you could always outflank them to protect them T1 and allow them a shot on side armour. However, I almost think it would be better to lose them than any of the chimera T1, so they might make a nice distraction.

 Paradigm wrote:
Well done on the win. That list does look far more balanced, and better on the whole. With regards to the Scout Sents giving first blood, you could always outflank them to protect them T1 and allow them a shot on side armour. However, I almost think it would be better to lose them than any of the chimera T1, so they might make a nice distraction.

Yeah, thanks for the advice on both lists. In the fight last night, I went first and used the Scouts just as you describe, as a distraction, and they worked really well, they afforded me more time to drop blasts. The only problem was, and I wasn't expecting this - my opponent rolled TERRIBLE when fighting the Scout in CC, and actually didn't kill it in one turn, thus finishing the CC on my turn, and he was able to inch forward and charge me on his next turn. Sh1t happens, lol.

Not a huge fan of the 36' minimum range of basilisks. Medusas IMO, are much better. And yes you need more troops. Drop the ratlings. They should be returning the one ring to mordor anyways.

 spacewolved wrote:
Not a huge fan of the 36' minimum range of basilisks. Medusas IMO, are much better. And yes you need more troops. Drop the ratlings. They should be returning the one ring to mordor anyways.

Thanks spacewolved. I didn't end up taking the ratling list, I went more balanced, with mech vets and artillery. I added 2 scout sentinels with LCs and they did great.

I disagree about the min range on the basilisk. In 6th edition, if you are firing within the min range, the only penalty is that you can't subtract your BS, even you have LOS (direct fire). The basilisk is BS3, so it's a loss of only 3", and only in those special cases where you have LOS on target. It's a small price to pay for dropping S9 AP3 large blasts anywhere on the table.

Medusas are amazing. If I find that my artillery is sitting in LOS anyway, sure, I wish I had Medusas in the list. However, I like my vehicles to be hidden, as often as possible.

When I started playing 40k, I faced a lot of ork Lootas, and that kind of killed my confidence when it comes to putting AV12 in LOS. It was "point and click" for the orks, and I'd be left with no way to shoot back by turn 2. That happened way too often.

But yeah, Medusas are great, maybe I should try them again with proper support.