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I've heard a lot about how scary the Sharpened Horns upgrade is for the Stegadon is against Mutli-wound models. This makes the impact hits from the Stegadon cause D3 wounds. While I understand how this would work against a single model, I'm confused on how it would work against groups of multi-wound models like a group of Ogres or other Monstrous Infantry.

Example: My Stegadon successfully charges a group of 6 Ogres. I cause 4 unsaved wounds with my impact hits. Assume I get 2 (roll a 3 or 4) of all the D3 multiple wounds. My question is: How many Ogres would I kill? Would it be 1 because the first Ogre takes the first 3 unsaved wounds before they are multiplied by the D3 and a second Ogre just takes 2 wounds? Or would I kill 2 Ogres because the D3 would increase the unsaved wounds to 8?

When a multiple wound, is caused it's multiplied by whatever it's value is (D3 in this case) to the maximum wounds the target model has on it's profile (W3 for ogres).
So lets say you do 3 wounds who get multiplied to a 2, a 1 and another 2, none of those are over the max wounds you can cause to an ogre so they're added together and removed from the unit as a while.
But if for example those 3 wounds where against flesh hounds you got them all multiplied by 3, you would still only get 6 (3x2) wounds since hounds only have 2 wounds on their profile.

HoverBoy is correct, however a simpler way to put it is:
A unit of multiple multi-wounds model has a global "Wounds Pool", you don't wound individual models but you wound the unit as a whole.
The "Multiple Wound" rule is however capped at the Wounds showing on the profile of the RnF of the unit

So for the OP, in that example you would cause 8wounds, killing two ogres.

killing two Ogres and putting 2 extra wounds on the unit as a whole, yes

Yep, very scary for multiwounds, and with +1S even better

The exception to "unit as a whole" would be if the unit was less than 5 RnF, as then you have to start allocating to characters, from memory - so the champion, if any, would start taking wounds.

Yes indeed
the remaining RnF would take the wounds from the pool, but the champion is apart as he has a different profile (though it can overflow from the unit to the champion as usual)

you cause 4 unsaved wounds and roll a D3 for each of them.

then allocate them, one D3 at a time until the model dies, then move to next model.

no no and no
you do not allocate wounds
single models don't have wounds in a multi-wound model unit
if you have 10 ogres with 3W each, the unit has 30 wounds, for each full chunk of 3 wounds suffered, you remove an ogre (and multiple wounds is capped at -3- per wounding attack)

The only time where you allocate wounds is if there are less than 5 RnF, and then the remaining RnF still constitue a single entity Wounds-wise

Eihnlazer wrote:
you cause 4 unsaved wounds and roll a D3 for each of them.

then allocate them, one D3 at a time until the model dies, then move to next model.

Given the correct rules had already been given, please do some research in the BRB before posting incorrect rules, as this only confuses people.

As was pointed out, you do NOT "allocate" wounds in a multiwound unit, unless there are less than 5 RNF models.

And even then, only if there's someone different to allocate to.

You do not allocate in the since of 40k allocation, however since wounds are getting wasted you are acctually allocating wounds.........

How is this not understood?

OK, I think I understand now but just to clarify something, the D3 multiple wounds does not apply to Single wound models. So I would only kill 4 single wound models and not 8.

My understanding is if 4 unsaved wounds occur, you roll 4 D3. You apply each D3 to a model to remove whole models. Any overkill to a model is ignored. Lets say you roll well and do 3, 2, 2, and 2. The 3 wounds removes a model. The next model takes 2 wounds. The same model takes 2 more wounds and dies. A third model takes 2 more wounds. Total wounds inflicted: 8.

Things really get out of hand with Konrad from the Vampire Counts... That would give him 8 more attacks each causing more multiple wounds... That's only a 160 point model when he isn't stupid... :p

boyd wrote:
My understanding is if 4 unsaved wounds occur, you roll 4 D3. You apply each D3 to a model to remove whole models. Any overkill to a model is ignored. Lets say you roll well and do 3, 2, 2, and 2. The 3 wounds removes a model. The next model takes 2 wounds. The same model takes 2 more wounds and dies. A third model takes 2 more wounds. Total wounds inflicted: 8.

No, no and no again.
Wounds are only allocated to the unit as such you multiply them to maximum of 3 (for ogres) so a 3, 2, 2 and 2 is 10 wounds.
Models only get allocated anything separately if they are characters/champions that have been targeted specifically, or in the case of impact hits if there where less than 5 RNF in the unit.

It's very easy to understand, just like HoverBoy put it
a unit of multi-wound has a global pool of wounds, individual within the unit can't be harmed separately
Wounds WILL "carry over" to the next dude because they are some kind of a socialist community of wounds, they share them with great love!

You sir, made my day with that last bit.

Eihnlazer wrote:
You do not allocate in the since of 40k allocation, however since wounds are getting wasted you are acctually allocating wounds.........

How is this not understood?

Wounds are NOT being allocated, unless you have a character and less than 5 RNF models.

And even then, you only allocate this way if you're shooting and the allocation is between the characters/champion and the "unit pool"

Or any other attack that is allocated like shooting.

 HoverBoy wrote:

boyd wrote:
My understanding is if 4 unsaved wounds occur, you roll 4 D3. You apply each D3 to a model to remove whole models. Any overkill to a model is ignored. Lets say you roll well and do 3, 2, 2, and 2. The 3 wounds removes a model. The next model takes 2 wounds. The same model takes 2 more wounds and dies. A third model takes 2 more wounds. Total wounds inflicted: 8.

No, no and no again.
Wounds are only allocated to the unit as such you multiply them to maximum of 3 (for ogres) so a 3, 2, 2 and 2 is 10 wounds.
Models only get allocated anything separately if they are characters/champions that have been targeted specifically, or in the case of impact hits if there where less than 5 RNF in the unit.

You sure the math adds up to 10 and not 9? You may want to foot that one more time.

Just so we're clear, if it did D6 instead of D3, and I rolled a 6 my one hit would kill 2 models since its going into a pool of wounds? So for example my stone thrower or cannon can kill two models with one hit if I roll a 6 on how many wounds I inflict? If so why can't I do the same thing to 1 wound infantry and kill more models than I have hits? Heck that would make Konrad much nastier than he is now...

boyd wrote:

 HoverBoy wrote:

boyd wrote:
My understanding is if 4 unsaved wounds occur, you roll 4 D3. You apply each D3 to a model to remove whole models. Any overkill to a model is ignored. Lets say you roll well and do 3, 2, 2, and 2. The 3 wounds removes a model. The next model takes 2 wounds. The same model takes 2 more wounds and dies. A third model takes 2 more wounds. Total wounds inflicted: 8.

No, no and no again.
Wounds are only allocated to the unit as such you multiply them to maximum of 3 (for ogres) so a 3, 2, 2 and 2 is 10 wounds.
Models only get allocated anything separately if they are characters/champions that have been targeted specifically, or in the case of impact hits if there where less than 5 RNF in the unit.

You sure the math adds up to 10 and not 9? You may want to foot that one more time.

Just so we're clear, if it did D6 instead of D3, and I rolled a 6 my one hit would kill 2 models since its going into a pool of wounds? So for example my stone thrower or cannon can kill two models with one hit if I roll a 6 on how many wounds I inflict? If so why can't I do the same thing to 1 wound infantry and kill more models than I have hits? Heck that would make Konrad much nastier than he is now...

Yup that was a math fail thanks for catching it.
No multiple wounds are still capped to the W characteristic of the target unit, so you can never multiply wounds past 3 against ogres or 2 against fleshounds, and the rule does nothing against single wound units.

 HoverBoy wrote:
the rule does nothing against single wound units.

Even if it did, it would cap at 1.
Which is the same as no effect.

Read the BRB, Multiple wounds against multiple wound models, page 45. Wounds are not pulled, Either for attacks or for the unit, They are applied to each model, you must kill a model before you can move on to the next. Edit: Wounds are Multipled after any saves are taken.

Using OP's example: Stegadon Charges into a bulls Unit, does 4 impact hits Multiplied to d3. You now roll each of these separately, the first D3 dice roles a 4, two wounds are applied to the first bull, There is no need to roll the second dice, as weather you roll a 1 or a 6 that Bull can only take one more wound before it dies. Now you roll the third d3 dice roll, is a 6, another Ogre is dead, as three wound wounds are removed. Then you roll the last D3 and get a 4, 2 wounds are applied to the next ogre, so in total you did 8 wounds, and 2 models die. If you had rolled a 1, then 2 then a 6 on your first three rolls, you would still only cause 3 wounds while killing one ogre, then whatever the last roll is would be applied to the next Ogre. Say you roll a 1, one wound is applied to that Ogre, and you did a total of 4 wounds.

cawizkid wrote:
Read the BRB, Multiple wounds against multiple wound models, page 45. Wounds are not pulled, Either for attacks or for the unit, They are applied to each model, you must kill a model before you can move on to the next. Edit: Wounds are Multipled after any saves are taken.

Using OP's example: Stegadon Charges into a bulls Unit, does 4 impact hits Multiplied to d3. You now roll each of these separately, the first D3 dice roles a 4, two wounds are applied to the first bull, There is no need to roll the second dice, as weather you roll a 1 or a 6 that Bull can only take one more wound before it dies. Now you roll the third d3 dice roll, is a 6, another Ogre is dead, as three wound wounds are removed. Then you roll the last D3 and get a 4, 2 wounds are applied to the next ogre, so in total you did 8 wounds, and 2 models die. If you had rolled a 1, then 2 then a 6 on your first three rolls, you would still only cause 3 wounds while killing one ogre, then whatever the last roll is would be applied to the next Ogre. Say you roll a 1, one wound is applied to that Ogre, and you did a total of 4 wounds.

Page 75 (multiple wounds) strongly disagrees.

2nd paragraph wrote:Where the number of wounds is generated by random dice roll, roll a dice separately for each unsaved wound and use the total of all dice rolled for the final number of wounds inflicted.

But page 45 does put a cap on how many wounds a MW attack can cause.

4th sentence wrote:A model cannot suffer more wounds than it has on it's profile.

EDIT: The multiple wounds USR is actually on pg.73 not 75.

 HoverBoy wrote:

Page 75 (multiple wounds) strongly disagrees.

2nd paragraph wrote:Where the number of wounds is generated by random dice roll, roll a dice separately for each unsaved wound and use the total of all dice rolled for the final number of wounds inflicted.

But page 45 does put a cap on how many wounds a MW attack can cause.

4th sentence wrote:A model cannot suffer more wounds than it has on it's profile.

i have looked over page 75, and found no reference to what you speak, I am guessing you mean page 45? in which case Single wound attacks are applied to each model unit it is dead, Multiple wounds models and multiple wound hits, clearly states. "Determinate how many wounds are caused on each model individually, (Remember that each model cannot suffer more wounds then it has on its profile?" so you have to roll each one separately.

Oops page was 73.
This just ain't my week, that's the 2nd time i got a page wrong.
Need new glasses.

well, that is interesting the BRB contradicts itself, Not that this is the first I have seen this, However this still says you roll for each one separately, and as it states early on page 45, a single model cannot take more wounds than it has on its profile. So you still roll and apply each one to the first model unit it is dead, you must kill a model out right before you can move on to the next, so if the first one only did two wounds, you must still apply all the next dice roll to the same model until it is dead. Otherwise, a stegadon, charges into a unit and can basically wipe it out, because now all of its impact his can triple its damage done to any unit. Not to say a charging stegadon would not do a ton of damage. But as no other unit does such a thing, and there are rules stating against this. I do not see how this can be argued.

How hard is it to understand really?
Pg 45
"Determine how many wounds are caused on each model individually (remember that each model cannot suffer more wounds than it has on its profile). Add up all wounds caused on the unit and then remove the appropriate number of models, noting any spare wounds on the unit"

The individual part is relevant only to determine the cap on the multiple wounds rule, then the wounds are added up and caused on the unit

edit: forgot a "(" that made it messy

As above. THis is still quite a clear rule, and has been this way for at least 3 editions now. (If i am remembering 6th correctly)