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I don't really care what people say... I like Storm Boys.... a LOT. They are (in)consistently one of the fastest units in the Ork Codex when assaulting. Plus they're no wimps on the charge either at 5 attacks per ork on a jet-pack assault! I played a game last night where I took a mighty 20-strong Stormboy squad. (In retrospect, I should have probably split them into two 10-ork squads, but that's not the point.) In the game, I placed the nob in a nice open area, some cover scattered about, but mostly in the middle to increase the odds of landing safely. I rolled my scatter dice, and was started to see quite a large scatter distance, about 9 or 10 inches. I followed the arrow and found right where they landed: right square atop the enemy's Landraider. I still wasn't too worried; I'd probably just have to re-deploy them next round. I rolled my D6 for the Mishap and stared in disbelief as a single pip stared up at me, mockingly. Just like that 275 points, nearly a fifth of my army, were gone. Instead the Landraider had spiffy new paint-job of gore red and the remains of a score of storm boys.

I have always wrestled with the question of Deepstrike or Not. Stormboys are fast (12+1d6 inches) so it's not like they CAN'T be somewhere in two or three turns. But if you deep-strike, you get there faster and "safer" (they only have one turn to shoot at you instead of 2 or 3). What's everyone's opinion on working with Jump infantry? Do you deep strike on or walk on? Or do you actually deploy them on the field, hopefully hidden somewhere behind tanks or buildings so they'll survive a round of shooting?

Stormboyz are fun, but very fragile, much like DE Hellions. I love both, but accept that neither will last long

My preferred use for them is to start them on the battlefield behind some nice hefty LOS blocking cover, then zoom them over it to assault some poor sap that gets to close.

The only time i would deep strike them is with Zagstrukk, and mainly that's because the little fethers don't clump up well for a tight deep-strike footprint, and have nothing worth shooting with. Zagstrukk can at least charge when he comes in..

(Ultramarine player, so add salt)

I never reserve or deep strike assault troops. As you experienced, scatter can be a killer. What is also bad is the turn you spend sitting around doing nothing. This is when you get shot to death. If you run when you land, you can get out of the "I <3 Pie-plate" formation, but then you don't get to shoot your pistols and try to be useful on landing.

When I run assault marines (which I do from time to time) I like a small 5 man squad. They are fast enough to get to fights they can win, or to pile in to help comrades who need a hand. Small squads are easier to keep out of LOS behind cover. I found that when I fielded full 10 man squads, half would always get shot off before doing anything. If I'm only going to get 5 guys into CC, I might as well just pay for 5.

Like Nevelon, I've also found that small squads are usually more survivable.

I've tried running 20 Stormboyz many times, and it's almost always a failure. 4 Stormboyz and a Nob with Power Klaw however always seem to be able to do something (usually, blow up a dangerous ennemy vehicle before dying).

As for Deep Strike vs Walk On : in 6th edition, I choose to always start on the table.

Zagstruck is a gimmick, and any competitive player knows not to rely on luck too much to achieve victory. When you start them on the table, you can easily manipulate Target Priority to force your opponent to shoot at something else (by denying LoS or making another unit seem more threatening).

Furthermore, Stormboyz have one of the greatest threat range in all 40k (30") and you can easily exploit that, creating a huge "danger zone" that'll make your opponent think twice before deploying a vehicle there.

I sometimes use chaos raptors with 2 meltas and sometimes a combi melta.

I always deep strike those for obvious reasons.
Free tank kill

 chuxfm wrote:
I sometimes use chaos raptors with 2 meltas and sometimes a combi melta.

I always deep strike those for obvious reasons.
Free tank kill

At that point you are DSing a shooting unit, that just happens to be based on assault troops. Deep Striking things to shoot is fine. You land, and can take your shots right away. You also have more flex in where you come down, due to the range of your guns.

It's not deep striking that is bad, it's doing it with assault units.

unlike a couple of above posts, I find small squads of stormboyz get killed really easily. I never deep strike them either - they are the fastest jump unit in the game, what's the point?

however, if they are space marines or simmilars, then a deep strike might be a good idea. Space marines are tough, so they can take all the incoming fire in the turn they can't assault, and then the door's open for them next turn to wreak havoc!

just my view on jump units. I haven't used assault marines, but I think that might be the way to go

Stormboys, you either take Zagstruk or walk them. They're fast enough to have a potential 30" assault, making them one of the only units which can first turn assault by walking. Attach you biker boss to the squad and laugh as you get them into combat before your enemy gets to shoot once.
(How does rolling charge ranges work with a mixed unit like that? Best option, or worst?)

Waaaghpower wrote:
Stormboys, you either take Zagstruk or walk them. They're fast enough to have a potential 30" assault, making them one of the only units which can first turn assault by walking. Attach you biker boss to the squad and laugh as you get them into combat before your enemy gets to shoot once.
(How does rolling charge ranges work with a mixed unit like that? Best option, or worst?)

Putting a Biker boss isn't a bad idea actually. As for charge distance, it's all 2d6 charge range unless you're charging into assault. Then I am unsure. I can definitely see arguments for the storm boys getting a 3d6 charge range, or a 2d6 charge range.

 Nevelon wrote:

It's not deep striking that is bad, it's doing it with assault units.

This hit the nail on the head. Of the armies I play, deep strike is only avaliable to very shooty units(Warp spiders, swooping hawks, crisis suits). None of which I ever really want in assault sans hawks assaulting a tank.

These squads are also fairly small. 5 spiders, 3 battlesuits or 6 hawks don't have much of a footprint so finding a safe place to land is not hard. Hawks don't even scatter and drop in a large blast, so it is stupid NOT to deep strike them.

All of these units also have ways to avoid being clustered up at the end of the turn. Spiders and hawks have battle trance and fleet to spread out, and crisis suits/spiders are jet pack so they can shuffle away and maybe even jump behind cover(JSJ).

Stormboys can't do any of those things, have worse armor than each of those units, and poor overall shooting. Since they will strike in and just sit there a turn, most opponents will gun them down. The obvious solution is the named dude Zagstruck or so that lets you assault from deep strike, but that costs boys.

To my knowledge all jumppack units are assaulty. Deepstriking them would make them pointless since they'd be all bunched up and in the open for a turn, while running on would let them be fanned out and hiding behind stuff.

Unless Zagstruk is with his boyz, you shouldnt ever deepstrike assaulty units. Especially non-zagstruk stormboyz because they move FASTER than normal jumppack units (12+D6, they still move 13" if they roll a 1 but lose a boy).

As far as Tyranids are concerned, I would never advise deep striking Gargoyles due to their massive footprint, probably not Shrikes either. I don't really see the point of paying the points for 12" movement and not taking advantage of it.

I never even considered this. But I just got my first 20 stormboyz in the mail today!!! Seems like you should walk unless you have Zag then? Then the intercepting Tau are bad news bears though, which is why I want them in the first place. Grrrr Orks.

Deepstriking sternguard can be devastating. Deep striking assault troops? Who cares?

If you're deepstriking a shooting unit then, what's safe so far as distance goes? I've been considering using melta raptors, but I don't know if placing them in melta range would be too risky in most situations, or if I should just try to go for the 12 inches away. I'm also considering using storm troopers when I start working towards playing IG, so that would be useful to know as well with them with flamers/meltas.

 doktor_g wrote:
I never even considered this. But I just got my first 20 stormboyz in the mail today!!! Seems like you should walk unless you have Zag then? Then the intercepting Tau are bad news bears though, which is why I want them in the first place. Grrrr Orks.

Thats kinda their issue. Stormboyz are technically very good, theyre just overpriced in today's meta and they have no gun or armor options (except the nob). What they do best is countered by cheaper units, and hard countered. Tau can outfit their entire army to wipe out stormboyz without even intending to
Right now its purely i wanna run them because theyre cool than theyre actually good. But theyre still, even these days, nowhere near useless so its not like youre spamming Kommandos or something lol

Spudlust wrote:
If you're deepstriking a shooting unit then, what's safe so far as distance goes? I've been considering using melta raptors, but I don't know if placing them in melta range would be too risky in most situations, or if I should just try to go for the 12 inches away. I'm also considering using storm troopers when I start working towards playing IG, so that would be useful to know as well with them with flamers/meltas.

Do you feel lucky? DSing is all about calculated risk. You want to be in melta range, find a spot you think will work, place your first model, pray to the dice gods, and roll scatter. You might mishap, you might kill your target. It's not for the faint of heart, and fortune favors the bold.

everything is a calculated risk. i almost never mishap unless im using Zagstruk since he kinda forces you to deepstrike closer than you normally want to. I also play Tau and i deepstrike 2 crisis bombs every game, they never mishap.

DSing Melta Raptors has only ever been successful for me. And I definitely advise dropping them within melta range (put your centrepiece in the 5-6" range, pray to the Dark Gods for a hit, and voila), otherwise why bother with them at all?115pts for double melta, 125 with combi if you want to be sure of a kill. Cheap, goes where you want, blows up what you want, and wins at yelling.
Always DS them.

That being said, when I say "successful" I mean they show up, kill a vehicle, and are immediately torn limb-from-limb as they become priority #1.
3 Chaos Terminators w/combi-melta are more survivable, ish, but only get one vehicle unless they get into CC with power weapons.

As for assault Jump Infantry, use their 12".

ShadowMageAlpha wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Stormboys, you either take Zagstruk or walk them. They're fast enough to have a potential 30" assault, making them one of the only units which can first turn assault by walking. Attach you biker boss to the squad and laugh as you get them into combat before your enemy gets to shoot once.
(How does rolling charge ranges work with a mixed unit like that? Best option, or worst?)

Putting a Biker boss isn't a bad idea actually. As for charge distance, it's all 2d6 charge range unless you're charging into assault. Then I am unsure. I can definitely see arguments for the storm boys getting a 3d6 charge range, or a 2d6 charge range.

Actually, there is no such argument. When you look at the rokkit pack, it tells you do add 1d6 when using it move, it doesn't say anything about using it to assault. You basically pick between getting additional movement or hammer of wrath.

Vineheart01 wrote:everything is a calculated risk. i almost never mishap unless im using Zagstruk since he kinda forces you to deepstrike closer than you normally want to. I also play Tau and i deepstrike 2 crisis bombs every game, they never mishap.

Someone mathhammered this a while ago (with a lot more math than I could be bothered with) and came to the conclusion that deep-striking Zagstruk exactly 6" away is the most efficient, since you have a 58% chance to get into assault successfully afterwards, and only a 6-7% chance of mishapping into the unit you want to assault.

I wish Stormboyz were good, but theres way too many pie plates in this game to make DS w/o Zag worth it, and Zag is expensive and crappy IMO

I wouldn't bother deepstriking them. At best, you're looking at getting into close combat turn 3. At worst, you're looking at them getting easily killed before they make it into close combat. The same is true for any CC unit, except those that also have decent shooting (like terminators).

The way I see fast CC units is mostly in a countercharge role. Your opponent does something clever, and is punished with a fast-response unit. They're basically the counter to those units that exist to punish your opponent for making mistakes. In this role, it's generally better to start them on the board in the middle of your stuff and then use the fact that they're mobile to be able to get to any edge of your stuff quickly.

Actually if they got 3D6 charge for rokkit'ing on the assault, that would be insane. Hammer of Wrath + Fleet on a 3-18" charge? I'll take that over getting to that sweetspot 6" charge any day lol.

Unless i am thinking something else, Jumppack units are Fleet when they use their rokkits to charge right?

OP- if they are getting shot at for 2-3 turns before assault when you start them on the board you're doing it wrong, they should be assaulting imediately (normaly T2) and they should always start the game out of sight IMO. Only ds if you have zagstruk.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Actually if they got 3D6 charge for rokkit'ing on the assault, that would be insane. Hammer of Wrath + Fleet on a 3-18" charge? I'll take that over getting to that sweetspot 6" charge any day lol.

Unless i am thinking something else, Jumppack units are Fleet when they use their rokkits to charge right?

Right.

Changing their rules to that might just be enough to justify their point costs. Someone should write that idea on a brick and throw it at Matt Ward.

probably plenty of people that'd throw a brick at Matt Ward, even blank lol

 Jidmah wrote:

ShadowMageAlpha wrote:Putting a Biker boss isn't a bad idea actually. As for charge distance, it's all 2d6 charge range unless you're charging into assault. Then I am unsure. I can definitely see arguments for the storm boys getting a 3d6 charge range, or a 2d6 charge range.

Actually, there is no such argument. When you look at the rokkit pack, it tells you do add 1d6 when using it move, it doesn't say anything about using it to assault. You basically pick between getting additional movement or hammer of wrath.

I would argue that there is such an argument. Granted I can also see how there's an argument against the 3d6 charge range. It all really comes down to whether you view the rules Jump pack for the Stormboys as Rules as Intended or Rules as Written.

Considering that you couldn't use jump packs in assaults at all until this edition, rules as intended are also against you. The rokkit pack does not do anything special during assault in comparison to any other jump pack in the game. There is literally no reason to claim otherwise.

Rules as intended is not the same as just reading something into rules that doesn't exist. Phil Kelly also didn't intend open topped battlewagons to kill half their cargo when exploding, but they still do.

 Jidmah wrote:
Considering that you couldn't use jump packs in assaults at all until this edition, rules as intended are also against you. The rokkit pack does not do anything special during assault in comparison to any other jump pack in the game. There is literally no reason to claim otherwise.

I disagree with you here. When I read the Rokkit pack rules, I seems like it was intending to say "When you use the rokkit pack...". They simply covered the only two instances at the time in which you COULD use a rokkit pack. It's also interesting to note how there have been several discussion threads about whether Stormboyz get 3d6 if they use the packs to assault. Every one I've read came to the conclusion they DO get 3d6, even a couple guys who read the rules as written. Something about it still being a move when you move in the assault phase. Although, to be honest, I don't find that reasoning to be compelling.

To get this out of the way:

Ork codex pg. 47:
"Every time the stormboyz unit utilizes its rokkit packs to move or fall back, roll a D6. [...] Regardless of the result, you may add the number rolled to the amount the unit moves that turn."

Quite obviously falling back is not movement in this context, otherwise it wouldn't have been here. In the same sense, assaulting is not movement, but is not named here. If in doubt, check with the 6th edition jump infantry rules, which explicitly differentiate between moving, charging and falling back, each with different rules. Only two of those are referenced in the rokkit pack rule, so only those two are affected. Even if you were to roll the dice during assault, your movement is already over for that turn, so it wouldn't do anything but kill stormboyz on a

You are not arguing how the rules were intended to work, but rather how they maybe would have worked if the rule was written for 6th. Rules become funky over two editions - you still have absolutely no permission to change them, no matter how funky they are.