Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

One of our players brought up that psykers generate warp charges at the start of a turn but they would arrive from reserve at the of turn also and the ones from the portalglyph arrive at the end of the movement phase (pink horrors). That said we discussed how these rules interact and the ramifications of said rules. Rules being discussed are listed below.

BRB Pg 66, warp chrages are generated at the start of each turn.

BRB Pg 124 Reserves, at the start of x turn

Daemons Pg 65 Portalglyph At the end of each of your movement phases.

Based on our discussion it looks like Psykers arriving from reserve can generate warp charges as you can decided what order the simultaneous events happen (start of turn) but Pink horrors arriving via a portalglyph can not generate warp charges the turn they arrive as it happens post start of turn (end of movement).

Everyone agree?

Psykers generating warp charges can only mean psykers in your army since it does not say otherwise. It does not restrict warp charge generation to models on the table so it must be for all psykers in your army weather they are on the table or in reserve.

Pink Horrors would generate warp charges just like any other psyker even if they arrived via a portalglyph that turn.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Psykers generating warp charges can only mean psykers in your army since it does not say otherwise. It does not restrict warp charge generation to models on the table so it must be for all psykers in your army weather they are on the table or in reserve.

Pink Horrors would generate warp charges just like any other psyker even if they arrived via a portalglyph that turn.

Are you sure? The pink horrors technically don't exist until the portaglyph spits them out, they aren't in reserve or on your roster.

4plus wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Psykers generating warp charges can only mean psykers in your army since it does not say otherwise. It does not restrict warp charge generation to models on the table so it must be for all psykers in your army weather they are on the table or in reserve.

Pink Horrors would generate warp charges just like any other psyker even if they arrived via a portalglyph that turn.

Are you sure? The pink horrors technically don't exist until the portaglyph spits them out, they aren't in reserve or on your roster.

Yes I am sure.

Read my post carefully...

I will wait for others to weigh in, I think you understand the question but I don't believe the rules are as cut and dry as you lead on. The pink horrors coming from the portaglyph are not in reserve or on your roster. The do not exist at the time of warp charge generation for the turn they arrive.

4plus wrote:
I will wait for others to weigh in, I think you understand the question but I don't believe the rules are as cut and dry as you lead on. The pink horrors coming from the portaglyph are not in reserve or on your roster. The do not exist at the time of warp charge generation for the turn they arrive.

Thus they generate warp charges just like any other psyker.

How does a psyker that does not exist generate warp charges... (Hint He doesn't).

 DeathReaper wrote:

4plus wrote:
I will wait for others to weigh in, I think you understand the question but I don't believe the rules are as cut and dry as you lead on. The pink horrors coming from the portaglyph are not in reserve or on your roster. The do not exist at the time of warp charge generation for the turn they arrive.

Thus they generate warp charges just like any other psyker.

How does a psyker that does not exist generate warp charges... (Hint He doesn't).

Then we are in agreement, the pink horrors (from the portalglyph) do not generate warp charges the turn they arrive because they have missed the opportunity.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Thus they generate warp charges just like any other psyker.

How does a psyker that does not exist generate warp charges... (Hint He doesn't).

Yeah, it doesn't make sense that units that may or may not exist get to generate warp charges. So if you're going to pop Pink Horrors out of a portaglph there's no way they have the opportunity to generate warp charges, since before you roll that 4+ there's no way of saying that they exist or not. No need to delve into philosophical debates of existence in a wargame.

The Horrors do not 'arrive' from the Portaglyph, they disembark from it....all Troops generated from the Portaglyph are already in it.
Whether or not they come out is determined randomly. So I would say yes they do generate a Warp Charge.

RAW they do not generate warp charges, even if they did RAW you do not get a chance to roll for any psyhic powers. Yet another thing that needs FAQing for daemons yet GW have yet to bother.

Great point MarkyMark. Yet another consideration when bringing units in via the portalglyph. Lord you propose that since it says exactly if disembarking from a transport it implies this is more than just movement instructions it means they get a warp charge because they had to exist to disembark. Interesting thread so far.

Every GT I've played in this year and current tactics daemon players use - pink horrors generate their warp charges. Warp charges are generated per player turn. End of movement phase is still the movement phase, where charges are generated. It doesn't say the start of the shooting phase.

Every daemon player I've watched including myself, roll horrors out the glyf, roll power and get ready for shooting. It happened with the 20+ daemon players at adepticon and it will happen at nova......RAI and BRB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also it's the beginning of the pink horrors movement phase when they come out of the glyf

daehan13 wrote:
End of movement phase is still the movement phase, where charges are generated.

They're generated Start of the Turn, not Movement Phase.
If you're moving troops you're no longer at the start of the turn, but into your Movement Phase.

daehan13 I posted the page numbers so you may look up exact time of events. RAW wise I think MarkyMark maybe right, it will certainly make pink horrors less attractive from the portalglyph.

Start of the turn is the start of the movement phase. Thus if one chucked a Portaglyph at the start of the movement phase, which is the start of the turn (and it can be chucked at any point in the movement phase), then the Portaglyph is there.

So if the Horrors inside disembark from it, albeit randomly, then they must be inside once the Portaglyph is placed. Thus they would be there at the start of the movement phase, start of the turn, to generate their Warp Charges.

But before a game or event I'd ask the T.O.s how they wanna play it. I think it's a logical way to play it especially considering an RAI perspective, and that they said disembark from the 'Glyph, not count the Glyph as an Icon to prevent scatter.

Then the question is how do the generate a power?

MarkyMark I stand corrected, pg 7 of FAQ. Interesting how FAQ's seem counter to RAW sometimes.

4plus wrote:
daehan13 I posted the page numbers so you may look up exact time of events. RAW wise I think MarkyMark maybe right, it will certainly make pink horrors less attractive from the portalglyph.

I play daemons, lots of times and competively and am very into RAW, I for one do not usually spawn horrors from the portal as they will not have any warp charges to use, even if the TO house rules that they can roll for powers. I will keep it in mind spawning horrors if they will be protected and able to shoot, or indeed just for the re roll 1's.

Lord Krungharr.

If you put the portal down in the movement phase, you are not allowed to roll for the spawning until the END of the movement phase. If you say the horrors must be inside it, how many jump out if the portalglpyh gets destroyed?. Afterall, any other transport will allow you to disembark after being destroyed....

It says they count as disembarking "enters play from the portalglpyh, exactly as if it were a unit disembarking from a transport." They clearly arent embarked upon anything and clearly do not get warp charges. Trust me I wish it was different but RAW no warp charges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

4plus wrote:
I don't agree with start of turn is start of movement, because there are rules that specify start of turn and there are other rules that specify start of movement. Specifically relating to this discussion. Reserves are rolled and done at start of turn (pg 124). Warp charges are start of turn (pg 66). Blessings and Maledictions are specifically done at the Start of movement (pg 68). GW has made several references in many places to either start of turn or start of movement which indicates to me there is a clear and deliberate delineation between the two. Start of turn comes before start of movement.

Now this I do not agree with, since the FAQ at least, Start of turn IS the start of the movement phase, backed up by the FAQ that says reserve ROLL and psy powers are at the same time and as per timing rule the player whos turn it is decides what goes first.

MarkyMark wrote:

4plus wrote:
daehan13 I posted the page numbers so you may look up exact time of events. RAW wise I think MarkyMark maybe right, it will certainly make pink horrors less attractive from the portalglyph.

I play daemons, lots of times and competively and am very into RAW, I for one do not usually spawn horrors from the portal as they will not have any warp charges to use, even if the TO house rules that they can roll for powers. I will keep it in mind spawning horrors if they will be protected and able to shoot, or indeed just for the re roll 1's.

Lord Krungharr.

If you put the portal down in the movement phase, you are not allowed to roll for the spawning until the END of the movement phase. If you say the horrors must be inside it, how many jump out if the portalglpyh gets destroyed?. Afterall, any other transport will allow you to disembark after being destroyed....

It says they count as disembarking "enters play from the portalglpyh, exactly as if it were a unit disembarking from a transport." They clearly arent embarked upon anything and clearly do not get warp charges. Trust me I wish it was different but RAW no warp charges.

As a fellow demons player that has been playing it wrong up until yesterday I share your sentiments on the RAW.

Since all psykers generate warp points at the start of the turn, does it even matter if they are on the table? The rule for generating warp points doesn't specify psykers on the table. I am guessing that the pg 124 reference in OP was the boldfaced section saying a unit arriving from reserves cannot use any ability that has to be used at the start of the turn? I don't think the generation of warp points is considered an ability or special rule, especially as the rules say it automatically happen.'

But its an interesting argument.

The issue is that they do not exist until you nominate them to disembark, meaning they have no way to generate warp charges.

pg 124 was strictly related to psykers in reserve. Psykers from the portalglyph are not in reserve. As Nosferatu summed up very succinctly, the psykers from the portalglyph simply do not exist when warp charges are generated.

They don't exist but when they come out it is their movement phase, they generate warp charges and powers. They then decide whether to run or shoot.

daehan13 wrote:
They don't exist but when they come out it is their movement phase, they generate warp charges and powers. They then decide whether to run or shoot.

No they don't. No where in the rules does it say that is the case.

daehan13 wrote:
They don't exist but when they come out it is their movement phase, they generate warp charges and powers. They then decide whether to run or shoot.

Please read the tenets of this forum, and back up your assertions with some real rules please

daehan13 wrote:
They don't exist but when they come out it is their movement phase, they generate warp charges and powers. They then decide whether to run or shoot.

They come out at the end of the movement phase it is very clear by RAW, as a result they have missed the chance to generate warp charges, and it is debatable that since they missed the beginning of the game they have no powers as well.