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Hello dakka,

I was wondering, when an attack bike finds itself in CC against an MC or vehicle, how many attacks may it make using its krak grenades?

From what I have read in my BRB it should only be 1, as it is only 1 model. However the bike does have 2 riders, allowing it to fire 2 weapons in the shooting phase.

Is there any connection between the number of riders on a bike and the number of grenade attacks it may make in CC?

Thanks

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Is there any connection between the number of riders on a bike and the number of grenade attacks it may make in CC?

Nope.
Just like the number of Attacks on a profile has no bearing on how many weapons you can fire.
They're different values, used for different things at different times.
No bearing.

I'd allow it. Since you can shoot a weapon for each rider, I don't see why each rider can't make an attack in HTH.

 Cortez667 wrote:
I'd allow it. Since you can shoot a weapon for each rider, I don't see why each rider can't make an attack in HTH.

Because the rules don't tell you you can. By comparison - a model with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. A Monstrous Creature can fire two weapons. Walkers can fire *all* their weapons.

Does this mean gunslingers and MCs should always have precisely 2 Attacks? Does a Walker have a number of Attacks equal to the number of shooting weapons it has left? Of course not - you use the Attacks characteristic because that's what it's there for. Shooting has no bearing on the number of Attacks you have.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Cortez667 wrote:
I'd allow it. Since you can shoot a weapon for each rider, I don't see why each rider can't make an attack in HTH.

Because the rules don't tell you you can. By comparison - a model with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. A Monstrous Creature can fire two weapons. Walkers can fire *all* their weapons.

Does this mean gunslingers and MCs should always have precisely 2 Attacks? Does a Walker have a number of Attacks equal to the number of shooting weapons it has left? Of course not - you use the Attacks characteristic because that's what it's there for. Shooting has no bearing on the number of Attacks you have.

No, but the number of attackers should. I agree that there is no support for the sidecar guy getting a grenade off in melee according to a strict RAW definition, and not even enough that I'd try and claim it in a game with someone I didn't know. But if an attack bike was in CC with my guys, I would totally allow it. Cortez's concession to common sense seems reasonable enough in this case.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Cortez's concession to common sense seems reasonable enough in this case.

Common sense?
Common sense would be no grenades at all. How does someone strapped into a chair on the side of a speeding bike managed to clamp a grenade to vulnerable part of a tank?
How does a bike rider attack in combat with pistol and knife, while stearing without falling off?
Common sense would be a single Hammer of Wrath attack and nothing else.
But the rules don't follow common sense. It's an abstract system, that allows one grenade attack per model, not rider.

I agree with grendel083... we have to remember that the rules are an abstraction, there are a LOT of things that don't make sense if you take fluff into consideration. I can well understand others house ruling it, but we're in YMDC and the rules are what was asked for.

Which is why I said that, RAW, you're absolutely correct. I was just adding some clarification for why it seemed like a reasonable point to be bringing up.

I guess this question would also apply to an IG Vet Heavy Weapon Team. 2 models (2 wounds) on a single base.

Well, it's not 2 models, it's 1. It may have 2 humanoid shapes on it, but it's still only 1 model.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Cortez667 wrote:
I'd allow it. Since you can shoot a weapon for each rider, I don't see why each rider can't make an attack in HTH.

Because the rules don't tell you you can. By comparison - a model with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. A Monstrous Creature can fire two weapons. Walkers can fire *all* their weapons.

Does this mean gunslingers and MCs should always have precisely 2 Attacks? Does a Walker have a number of Attacks equal to the number of shooting weapons it has left? Of course not - you use the Attacks characteristic because that's what it's there for. Shooting has no bearing on the number of Attacks you have.

As I said, I'd allow it. Its a single additional str 6 attack per round, not an Orbital Bombardment every turn. If a str 6 attack makes that much of a difference in your games, then props, those must be some really closely fought games. As far as my usual games go, it wouldn't really make a difference.

I fully concede that RAW says its by model, NOT rider. I guess its just not that important to me. That being said, this section of the forums is for clarifying RAW, not what we're okay with during our games. In that regard, your absolutely right.

To the guy making the point about the gunner not being able to do something because of A, B, and C: I'm not sure if you've ever seen an Attack Bike model, but they are not strapped in at all.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253892.page

Point 4.