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I wsih they GW would sell FW in their stores.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Our local GW does not even sell flying bases. It's horrid. I needed a pack and they told me you'd have to directly order them. Yeah, awesome. Because that box takes SO MUCH previous shelf space. How about you dumb all that LotR stuff nobody buys anyway and thus free up space for actually useful stuff? Gnarf.

I remember years ago, I needed some flying bases on Christmas Eve, finally got into town and got to GW about 5 minutes after they closed, they opened the shop back up just so I could buy some bases, back then they cared about their hobbyists. Nowadays i'd probably get turned away. It's silly the fact they hardly stock a large amount of things you need for the hobby.

I prefer to game in my local GW - it is very spacious and has 5 gaming tables in addition to a smaller demo table/painting area.

It is because of this preference and the fact that the GW staff are very helpful with painting/modelling that I prefer to order from the store directly.

There are customers out there that don't mind paying a little extra to show appreciation/loyalty.

 Ouze wrote:

As opposed to simply ordering it off ebay or the warstore or something for a sizable discount? I've never understood that "offer", ever.

If you don't have the stuff I want, there is no reason for you to order it for me to "bring me unto the store" (instead of just having it sent directly to my home) presumably so you can continue to not have the stuff I want and we can continue this pointless cycle.

If they shipped to your house instead of the store, without charging you for shipping, at least it's not a wasted trip: that's a better premise. But I guess GWS is also supposed to be a place to hangout and play games, so the vibe is a little different too.

This. Entirely this. I didn't drive to your store so I could wait for 2 weeks for you to actually order the thing I wanted and then hopefully remember to call me back, maybe, and then drive back (so that I could peruse your lack of product to not impulse buy). I drove to your store to buy what I wanted now, as opposed to ordering it cheaper and getting it in a quarter of the time you can. It's not 1992 anymore, I don't have to send money order and wait a month for delivery.

My gripe isn't about a GW, but a FLGS. I only even bother going there nowadays for paint and to check up on tournament dates. I want to buy other things there, because I want to support them, but I'm not further inconveniencing myself to keep them in business.

One local independant store has been crapping out on special orders lately. It used to be that'd I'd just send them an email or a facebook message and within a week to two weeks, I'd get a response saying it was ready for pickup. Now everything is taking 6 or more weeks and sometimes when things do arrive, no one will contact me to let me know. One guy ordered some stuff four months ago and it just arrived. He got his phone call at least.

They also aren't bringing in nearly as much of each new product and people are going away empty handed when coming to a store to get something on release day.

Another weird thing they don't do is restock when something sells out fast. It's like the person doing the ordering isn't paying attention to what is selling or the special order log.

At least with the GW kiosks, you'll get your damn product.

I'm thinking it's time to switch to online purchases with confirmed in-stock product.

When I ordered in a GW they told me they get the product in the following Thursday so between 1 and 6 days with the alternative to send it to your house if you want.

I was paying cash and not letting the Mrs know I was spending more cash on mini's so I collected it from the store 2 days later.

I can fault their service.

 frozenwastes wrote:
One local independant store has been crapping out on special orders lately. It used to be that'd I'd just send them an email or a facebook message and within a week to two weeks, I'd get a response saying it was ready for pickup. Now everything is taking 6 or more weeks and sometimes when things do arrive, no one will contact me to let me know. One guy ordered some stuff four months ago and it just arrived. He got his phone call at least.

They also aren't bringing in nearly as much of each new product and people are going away empty handed when coming to a store to get something on release day.

Another weird thing they don't do is restock when something sells out fast. It's like the person doing the ordering isn't paying attention to what is selling or the special order log.

At least with the GW kiosks, you'll get your damn product.

I'm thinking it's time to switch to online purchases with confirmed in-stock product.

GW stuff from independents? I've heard plenty of horror stories about GW delivering stuff of late, and the new releases have been pretty severely rationed, so the lack of stock may not be the independents fault, they could have ordered stuff and are just waiting on it arriving.

Not that only GW is guilty of that; it's hard to get X-Wing stuff in stock at the moment either, same with that batman game.

I probably have a reputation for bashing GW here on DakkaDakka, but it's not GW's fault in this situation. The owner is simply not ordering people's special orders. I had one of the employees actually look at the distributor orders for me to find when my stuff would come in (it wasn't) and in their last three orders not a single special order product was added to the orders. Pre-orders were. New releases. But no special orders and no replen of sold product. As for GW, they only order when special orders hit GW's minimum order levels, so there's even longer wait times there.

Herzlos wrote:
Not that only GW is guilty of that; it's hard to get X-Wing stuff in stock at the moment either, same with that batman game.

At least in the case of X-wing it's a new game that vastly out-sold expectations, so it's understandable that it's taking a while to scale up production to handle the demand. With GW, on the other hand, you expect that they should have a pretty good idea of what demand is going to be and produce more than enough to meet it.

Sometimes going with the tide is necessary for what objectives you're trying to achieve; sorta like that mantra "for the greater good..."

:: wipes off tau heresy from fingertips ::

I was thinking about this whole "how to stock for smaller stores" issue the other day*. Given the capability of modern electronic order systems, I don't understand why they can't distribute some of their warehouse stock into the stores.

As Peregrine pointed out earlier, the problem under the traditional approach is that you have to pay to produce a product for each store, which then goes to gather dust until bought, whilst you still have to keep a stock in your warehouse for distribution.

Surely you could have an order system that can also look at the stock in the stores and forward an online order request to a store with excess stock, for them to box it up and drop it in the post. You could maybe even run it off an internal timer system, e.g. "We sent them 12 boxes of vespids 6 months ago and they haven't sold, therefore we'll reallocate 10 of these to be used for online orders."

I know that in isolation it would be less efficient than one centralised hub, but given that you're paying for the storefronts and staff anyway, it's just better utilising an overhead you already had. Plus you can justify more stock in stores to leverage more impulse purchases and encourage customers to use them.


* - I actually wasn't thinking of GW when I was working up this idea, I was thinking about Amazon's second-hand bookshop network and whether you could use that model for other small businesses.

 Jadenim wrote:
Surely you could have an order system that can also look at the stock in the stores and forward an online order request to a store with excess stock, for them to box it up and drop it in the post. You could maybe even run it off an internal timer system, e.g. "We sent them 12 boxes of vespids 6 months ago and they haven't sold, therefore we'll reallocate 10 of these to be used for online orders."

The problem with that is that you've got the worst of both worlds: all the inefficiency and wasted money of not having a central shipping warehouse, but a lot of the same empty shelf problems (since your low-volume kits are randomly taken off the shelf and sent elsewhere). Except now you're making things even less efficient by having your single employee in each store be responsible for packing and shipping stuff.

The solution is to accept a certain amount of idle stock to make sure that your customers are getting what they want and your stores don't look too empty. But, like the failed hobby shop I mentioned, sometimes your profit margin is so small that you have to cut every possible expense and can't afford to produce extra boxes to keep the stores well-stocked. And so you just have to put up with having your shelves look like a grocery store the day before a hurricane hits, and losing sales because you don't have what the customer wants.

Both GW and FLGS' are guilty of this. I like to pay where I play, but that's really hard when they offer so little. I don't want another box of lootas or kabalite warriors. I want an HQ or an elite box. One store near me makes GW their main focus for play, but offers 2-3 products per faction, mostly just troops. It's hard to special order when you know you could just get it for cheaper on eBay.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
Surely you could have an order system that can also look at the stock in the stores and forward an online order request to a store with excess stock, for them to box it up and drop it in the post. You could maybe even run it off an internal timer system, e.g. "We sent them 12 boxes of vespids 6 months ago and they haven't sold, therefore we'll reallocate 10 of these to be used for online orders."

The problem with that is that you've got the worst of both worlds: all the inefficiency and wasted money of not having a central shipping warehouse, but a lot of the same empty shelf problems (since your low-volume kits are randomly taken off the shelf and sent elsewhere). Except now you're making things even less efficient by having your single employee in each store be responsible for packing and shipping stuff.

The solution is to accept a certain amount of idle stock to make sure that your customers are getting what they want and your stores don't look too empty. But, like the failed hobby shop I mentioned, sometimes your profit margin is so small that you have to cut every possible expense and can't afford to produce extra boxes to keep the stores well-stocked. And so you just have to put up with having your shelves look like a grocery store the day before a hurricane hits, and losing sales because you don't have what the customer wants.

But when you also make the stuff, the expense of the stock is negligable; you're essentially paying production costs and moving numbers about a balance sheet. It can be cost prohibitive for independents who are having to pay distributor rates, but it's a poor excuse for not stocking stuff where you own the whole chain from manufacture to sales. Even if it's not shifting, the cost should be minimal versus things like wages and rates.

Especially if you can use some distributed stock model where you can return excess stock to HQ or transfer stuff between branches, which may give you faster results than ordering from warehousing/manufacturing depending on location.

I suspect the problem is that GW treats each store and a stand alone unit and not part of a chain, and that there aren't easy allowances for direct stock transfer.

Not that I'm having a go purely at GW. Lots of other companies at the moment are applying the just-in-time stock model to keep inventory low and make the balance sheets look good, whilst at the same time pretty much defeating the main benefit of having a physical store; being able to walk in, buy something, and leave with it. Sometimes I need that tool/widget/paint/chair now rather than next Thursday and I'm willing to pay more for the ability to get it now.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I probably have a reputation for bashing GW here on DakkaDakka, but it's not GW's fault in this situation. The owner is simply not ordering people's special orders. I had one of the employees actually look at the distributor orders for me to find when my stuff would come in (it wasn't) and in their last three orders not a single special order product was added to the orders. Pre-orders were. New releases. But no special orders and no replen of sold product. As for GW, they only order when special orders hit GW's minimum order levels, so there's even longer wait times there.

A lot of independents are certainly guilty of the stock issues (not placing special orders, queueing orders until they have enough to be worth the hassle, whatever), but I've heard complaints from many sources about GW not shipping what's been requested, or huge delays. Of course it's anecdotal and hard to gauge accuracy, but when you hear things from enough sources they start to gain credibility.

I disagree with the folks who say that this is complaining for complainings sake.

Well its true you cant expect every shop to carry everything, it also isn't unreasonable to expect the company owned and operated store to carry a good selection of products sold by that company.

 Phobos wrote:
I disagree with the folks who say that this is complaining for complainings sake.

Well its true you cant expect every shop to carry everything, it also isn't unreasonable to expect the company owned and operated store to carry a good selection of products sold by that company.

The question comes down to what you think is a "good selection of products" and whether or not the shop should adjust its stocking habits related to what the majority of players locally actually want/play.

WHFB stuff tends to sit on the shelves for a long period of time at my local GW, while the 40k stuff goes almost instantly. They devote very little space overall to WHFB and LOTR but tons to 40k as a result of that.

You tend to see them stock the army books, battalions, and plastic troop boxes only for WHFB+LOTR while maintaining a pretty hefty supply of Finecast character models/troop boxes for 40k in addition to the army books, battalions, and plastic boxes.

I'd regard a "good selection of products" for a GW store as at least 1 of everything useful in their core game (40K) that isn't direct only. Particularly the stuff outwith the independents minimal order range, and essentially anything a gamer may want.

If part of your pitch is up-selling, you really ought to have relevant stuff to up-sell with. No point in having tactical squad boxes to up-sell to a 'Nids player.

For an independent, the "good selection of products" is vastly reduced; the core stuff, including enough to get started, and the elite/character models that sell well. No point having lots of money locked up in inventory for stuff you rarely sell if you're a small indie buying it at distributor rates.

The real question comes down to what exactly is the purpose for the store existing.

If the purpose of the store is to generate and encourage long term relationships with customers and to become a presence in the market then they should stock and service the vast majority of products that they sell. The Apple store doesn't point at you & laugh if you show up with a first generation iPad or refer you to a kiosk if you want to purchase a nano.

If on the other hand the purpose of store is to constantly generate short term relationships to new customers by selling them the latest and greatest before moving on to the next Big Thing, then the games Workshop store is working as intended. There is no need to stock anything other then fast movers. There is no need to have many employees.

If some of the customers do end up becoming a long term customers, then you can refer them to the online store to support their additional non mainstream purchases.

I must admit, I kind of agree with the OP.
Its not too much to ask for them to stock everything in the range a few times, surely, its not like they have to rely on other companies to make stuff for them.
I cant even get what I want at GW nottingham sometimes, Twice I have been in for a clamshell and they have not have it in.

This isn't a manufacturing issue, it is one of logistics.

A company that makes and sells many hundreds (thousands?) of products can't not hold all of it in retail locations where you get charged by the square foot. It is in their interests to hold as much is as reasonably possible and I'm sure they do but something has to give, so we have online FW, Direct only items etc.

They could make more room taking the tables out but I would expect that will generate more pages of pissing and moaning too.

 notprop wrote:
This isn't a manufacturing issue, it is one of logistics.

A company that makes and sells many hundreds (thousands?) of products can not hold all of it in retail locations where you get charged by the square foot.

Sure. But why not stock more than three or four HQ models for each army, when there is space on the shelves?

THey have cut down the amount of stock in their shops over the past year, obviously to save om inventory costs. But given they're paying a lot in rents and rates, it's a false economy if it loses impulse sales.

Perhaps they did, but you know sold them?

I think its a case of they have to make a choice from the range but its just not going to please everyone. There just isn't an affordable alternative.

All GWs get their stock weekly I believe (Thursdays?) and manage until then with the order point.

 notprop wrote:
This isn't a manufacturing issue, it is one of logistics.

A company that makes and sells many hundreds (thousands?) of products can't not hold all of it in retail locations where you get charged by the square foot. It is in their interests to hold as much is as reasonably possible and I'm sure they do but something has to give, so we have online FW, Direct only items etc.

They could make more room taking the tables out but I would expect that will generate more pages of pissing and moaning too.

even though they often have empty wall space now, and many shops have been adding false partitions when removing gaming areas. Since you're paying by the square foot, you want to be cramming as much sellable stuff into it as possible. No-one is saying it all has to be on display, just that it should be available. You can fit a lot of blisters into locked drawers under the shelving units or the counter, or even the gaming tables.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps they did, but you know sold them?

Obviously stuff will sell out, it's just an indicator to keep more in stock in future. But that should be a relatively rare occurrence; if you regularly sell out of stuff, you should be stocking more of it.

I play Wood Elves, and about 3/4 of the models I want (Wardancers, Waywatchers, Wild Riders, nearly all the Lords and Heroes, Great Eagles, Warhawk Riders, even a core unit!) are metal and I have to order directly from them. Which is bloody annoying, because I had to convert a lot of units (my Eternal Guard a made of Glade Guard and Dark Elf warrior parts, and my Wild Riders are made from about 5 different kits) if I don't want to order directly from them.

It makes one wonder why the hell they started an army like that, when they could have done something else with far less stress. They've probably lost a bunch of sales from me, because it's like pulling teeth trying to get the damn models I want.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I play Wood Elves, and about 3/4 of the models I want (Wardancers, Waywatchers, Wild Riders, nearly all the Lords and Heroes, Great Eagles, Warhawk Riders, even a core unit!) are metal and I have to order directly from them. Which is bloody annoying, because I had to convert a lot of units (my Eternal Guard a made of Glade Guard and Dark Elf warrior parts, and my Wild Riders are made from about 5 different kits) if I don't want to order directly from them.

It makes one wonder why the hell they started an army like that, when they could have done something else with far less stress. They've probably lost a bunch of sales from me, because it's like pulling teeth trying to get the damn models I want.

Probably because when they started "an army like that" they (and their independents) kept more things in stock in large amounts.

Remember that the Wood Elves are relatively old and them having metal Special(remember that the Eternal Guard are technically classed as Special options rather than Core) was not uncommon at the time.

Herzlos wrote:

 notprop wrote:
This isn't a manufacturing issue, it is one of logistics.

A company that makes and sells many hundreds (thousands?) of products can't not hold all of it in retail locations where you get charged by the square foot. It is in their interests to hold as much is as reasonably possible and I'm sure they do but something has to give, so we have online FW, Direct only items etc.

They could make more room taking the tables out but I would expect that will generate more pages of pissing and moaning too.

even though they often have empty wall space now, and many shops have been adding false partitions when removing gaming areas. Since you're paying by the square foot, you want to be cramming as much sellable stuff into it as possible. No-one is saying it all has to be on display, just that it should be available. You can fit a lot of blisters into locked drawers under the shelving units or the counter, or even the gaming tables.

Who's blocking off their shops? Empty walls in GW stores?

Rubbish, you basing that on an anecdote of a US FLGs that's going out of business. As I say I'm all for critism but let's at least be reasonably accurate.

 notprop wrote:
Perhaps they did, but you know sold them?

Obviously stuff will sell out, it's just an indicator to keep more in stock in future. But that should be a relatively rare occurrence; if you regularly sell out of stuff, you should be stocking more of it.

You are ignoring the fact that they can not stock everything they make. Blisters aren't big sellers compared to boxes and most are on direct only anyway?

Like I say many seem to be looking for reasons to moan. There not great problem here beyond not having instant gratification that some seem to believe the are entitled to.

Let me tell you a tale of the olden days when there was "please allow 28 days for delivery" on every mail order sign.

I went into my FLGS today to buy some models for the first time in forever.

The CSM had, I joke you not, a Heldrake, Rhino, Predator, box of PM, box of bikers and a Termi Lord.

I only wanted to buy Huron Blackheart! Why oh why do the Gods hate me so......

My original WHFB army was made of the minis from the half price bin or units that were stale and never moved from their hooks. That's how I got started with Chaos.

That could never happen in a GW store today. No sales, no half price (we need this gone) bins, I wonder how many GW customers got into the hobby from sale merchandise, or just saw a units worth of guys on a shelf and said "I'll build an army out of these".

Heybiff

heybiff wrote:
My original WHFB army was made of the minis from the half price bin or units that were stale and never moved from their hooks. That's how I got started with Chaos.

That could never happen in a GW store today. No sales, no half price (we need this gone) bins, I wonder how many GW customers got into the hobby from sale merchandise, or just saw a units worth of guys on a shelf and said "I'll build an army out of these".

Heybiff

The odd thing is GW seem to have forgotten the value of anything other than one-off immediate large-scale purchases. I remember when they transitioned from 2nd to 3rd Edition 40K, I just played small WHFB games with a friend on occasion at the time, I'd spent very little in the store at all. They had a HUEG sale to clear all the 2nd Edition books, a lot of the other 40K stuff was discounted as well, and it was buying up a load of those books that got me into 40K in the first place. I shudder to think how much money GW have had out of me over the years, all because of that one sale.

 notprop wrote:


They could make more room taking the tables out but I would expect that will generate more pages of pissing and moaning too.