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Still pretty new to the game i just broke into the 35 point mark with my cygnar (I play a Estryker storm blade list). I picked up the two player set as i needed the rule book and the value is just to good to pass. I wanted Khador and Menoth so it was the best bang for the buck. Anyways id like to run a pretty heavy war jack list PURE WAR JACKS. Which caster is best for this and what should i add to what i have already.

Thanks!

Well, it depends on how literal "Pure Warjacks" means in this case.

We can run a lot of jacks compared to everyone else, largely because of our excellent support models.


Harbinger can run a bunch of Jacks because of having the most focus in the game. And her Theme list is also conducive to running 6+ jacks.


If you just wanted to get the most jacks possible into a list that's still good, I would suggest something along these lines of either of these lists

Tier 4
Harbinger
-Crusader
-Crusader
-Crusader
-Crusader
-Heirophant

Avatar of Menoth

min Choir
min Choir

Vilmon
3 Paladins

With this list, all the Jacks are a point cheaper than normal due to the Tier benefits. So you still have the Choir to buff them, plus the Heirophant to heal Harby up when she Martyrs the Paladins.



Then you could run this list, which does have infantry. but they are almost like jacks.

Harbinger
-Templar(could be any of the 8 point warjacks)

Avatar of Menoth

Max Choir
Max Bastions

Bastion Seneshal
-Vanquisher
-Vanquisher

Vassal of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth


This gives you Heavy Warjacks, 3 of which are independent of Harbinger. The Bastions are like their own Heavy jack and the Seneshal can heal them.

Thanks for the response Grey Templar you have been very helpful on a few of my topics. Im going to look into it some more and play with the list you provided.

Epic Severius Tier makes Crusaders only 5 points

If you wanted to, you could just run 7 Crusaders and support

Reznik does same for Reckoner which is arguably our best Jack, easily run 5 of them

None of them. Menoth really wants to bring the choir, and their jacks are statted accordingly.

Also, how competitive are you trying to be?

CurrentlyUnknown wrote:
None of them. Menoth really wants to bring the choir, and their jacks are statted accordingly.

Also, how competitive are you trying to be?

Right now im just enjoying the game with Menoth, I use Cygnar right now for competitve play. I just want more jacks in an army as my Cygnar only has two in the list i use most.

Menoth is the best faction to do lots of Warjacks with(although Cyriss may change that) because of all the jack support we have.

Choir, Vassals, Wracks, and Reclaimers are all part of why we can run tons of Jacks relative to other factions.


All of our Jacks are effectively Mat8 and Rat7 because of Choir.

We have the Reckoner. Probably the best heavy in the game. It has a pow19(with choir) reach melee weapon, a pow15 gun with assault and Flare, spd5, and it comes with Ashen Veil.

The crusader is the cheapest beatstick in the game. It can hand out pow20 attacks while being cheap enough to be almost disposable.

I really like the Sanctifier, can any one shed some light on him and how he works. Is he worth using, i just like how he looks.

He's great if you run a bunch of Infantry.

You have your infantry go in first, when the enemy kills them, he gets fueled up with souls, and then can wait for a good turn to make them into Focus and charge something.


He also has a magical weapon with reach, and open fist, and an Aura of "SCREW INCORPOREAL!!!"

High Executioner Reznik's tier list can reduce Reckoner cost to 7 points a jack, which is damn near criminal. The drawback is that you're stuck with cleansers or cinerators as the only infantry to screen. Reznik himself loves jacks, even with a Focus of 6. Wracks and a Hierophant are definite requirements for him. Iron Aggression helps his efficiency a lot, though.

eFeora makes her battlegroup very fast with Escort and Ignite can make things hit like a freight train. To be efficient, most people run her with a Judicator, which is hitting at P+S 24 with its fists when buffed fully. You can still run her quite well with 3-4 'Jacks without Judi (Reckoner/Templar, 2 Vanqs, Redeemer bonded) and spread Fire around like Christmas goodies.

Basically, due to the support that we have as a faction, there are a lot of 'casters that can run 'jacks fairly well, even several of them at once. Compare that to the Khadoran 1 jack only lists.

Im starting to like Menoth more and more lol.

Even in Protectorate, pure 'Jacks is problematic. You can fuel 1-2 Heavies off your caster, plus the avatar. More than that though and you want to have Sanctifier or Reclaimer and they need souls. Menite 'Jacks are also kind of slow and want something to absorb the Alpha strike for them.

Harbinger is probably your best bet at any rate. 10 Focus to keep 'em fueled, and Crusaders call to get you the distance. You could even do something Janky like run her theme force and get -1 to Melee 'Jack costs. You need to bring vilmon, but can otherwise just spam 5pt Crusaders that get +2" on the charge.

Really your lists will be much more effective if you include at least 1 Tarpit Unit and some support staff. Putting that 12 or so points into things that help your 'Jacks shine is going to do far more for making your opponent fear your 'Jacks than just bringing an extra heavy and a repenter.

I have a full unit of cinerators that i was going to use as a tarpit unit.

Chongara wrote:
Even in Protectorate, pure 'Jacks is problematic. You can fuel 1-2 Heavies off your caster, plus the avatar. More than that though and you want to have Sanctifier or Reclaimer and they need souls. Menite 'Jacks are also kind of slow and want something to absorb the Alpha strike for them.

Harbinger is probably your best bet at any rate. 10 Focus to keep 'em fueled, and Crusaders call to get you the distance. You could even do something Janky like run her theme force and get -1 to Melee 'Jack costs. You need to bring vilmon, but can otherwise just spam 5pt Crusaders that get +2" on the charge.

Really your lists will be much more effective if you include at least 1 Tarpit Unit and some support staff. Putting that 12 or so points into things that help your 'Jacks shine is going to do far more for making your opponent fear your 'Jacks than just bringing an extra heavy and a repenter.

TBH, Its more accurate to say you can fuel 2-3 Heavies off your caster plus the Avatar

Honestly, you don't need to fuel EVERY jack to max in the same turn

Surprised Feora2 hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I missed it), she is currently my go to for jack lists. While she doesn't have that huge focuspool like Harby what she does with the Judicator and other shooting jacks is pretty amazing. She runs well with very little outside the normal jack support. My current favorite core is Judicator, 2 Reckoners, Vanquisher, Min Choir, 2 Vassals, and a Mechanic. The other points usually depends on what I am running in my other list.

 SheSpits wrote:
I have a full unit of cinerators that i was going to use as a tarpit unit.

Don't. Heavy Infantry are very bad tarpits, Cinerators even more so.

Heavy Infantry are offensive units, but many of them are actually fairly fragile. Bastions have their special wound sharing ability to increase their survivability but Cinerators have no such bonus.

Get exemplar errants. Now that is a good unit.

Heavy Infantry can take a hit, and they can take a ton of small hits but the main issue is that they definitely won't survive even a single heavy hit, which is easily what is most common in this game

So then when you compare Heavy Infantry to the standard Tarpits it usually compares like this

Heavy Infantry, Dies to 1 heavy hit, Small number of Expensive people
Light Infantry, Dies to 1 heavy hit, Large number of Cheap people

If you get hit with 5 Heavy Hits, that is an entire Heavy Squad gone. If you get hit with 5 Heavy hits, that is only half a Cheap squad gone (and cheap squads are also less points)

Hmmm why would some one take a heavy squad then? Would they be used to alpha strike or are they just a waste?

Medium bases block tramples.

Trample means they get to walk through a unit, but do they not suffer from free attacks to the back arc if they do so? Im still new lol. So if thats the case do many people do that? I can see doing it to try and one shot kill a war caster but do the free strikes hit before the mode that tramples attacks or after?

Free strikes are made after the Trample attacks are resolved. Trampling with a Stormwall is definitely a thing, and it's a good way to kill infantry that bunches up.

 SheSpits wrote:
Hmmm why would some one take a heavy squad then? Would they be used to alpha strike or are they just a waste?

They usually hit pretty hard. 3 Bastions(or cinerators) charging a Warjack or beast are going to seriously mess it up. But if the jack/beast charges them they're probably all dead if in its melee range.

pow12 weapon masters can usually kill whatever they charge unless its a healthy beast or jack, and then they will still cause it serious damage.

Typically they are in the second wave and used to take out a hard target or two.

 SheSpits wrote:
Hmmm why would some one take a heavy squad then? Would they be used to alpha strike or are they just a waste?

My favorite list involves fielding like 2 dozen Heavy Infantry

The trick is to make sure that if they get charged by Jacks, only 1 or 2 will be attacked at a time

If I can trade a Heavy for 1-3 Heavy Infantry, I am definitely ahead


And shooter heavy lists can suck my Krea