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So with all the recent rumors that SM chapters will be able to ally with themselves providing chapter benefits to the army as a whole, what is to stop a player from taking a unit from every chapter to have insane benefits?

Speculated Rules, Not Fact

For example: You take a Ultramarine squad, all tactical marines in army re-roll misses
You take a Iron Hands squad, entire army with 6+ FNP & It Will Not Die for vehicles/characters
etc etc etc

Am I understanding this correctly? While this isn't as much of a factor in games that require proper force organization as you must fulfill the prerequisites, no force organization games are very common in my area. Does this mean we can come to expect the above? I'm not so much concerned about casual play amongst friends, but I can see the tournament scene getting a little silly.

what is to stop a player from taking a unit from every chapter to have insane benefits?

The fact that you can only take one allied detachment (under 2000 points)? And the fact that chapter tactics only apply to units chosen from that chapter, so you can't stack multiple sets of chapter tactics on the same unit?

I'd expect that the chapter tactics only apply to their own detachment (your Ultras could rerol, your IH would get their FNP).

Though with GW's talent when it comes to wording rules I wouldn't be surprised if this is possible until the first FAQ. And of course when you do No-FOC games, you allready alter the rules and have to account for some stuff yourself.

Also those "insane benefits" will only apply to the units from that particular Chapter/Detachment.

So in your example, the Ultramarines primary detachment can use the Assault/Tactical/Devastator(?) tactics once a turn but will have no effect on the Iron Hands allied detachment who will have the always on 6+ FnP.

The turn the UM use Tactical discipline, the Iron Hands will not be able to reroll misses and the UM will not receive FnP.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Also those "insane benefits" will only apply to the units from that particular Chapter/Detachment.

So in your example, the Ultramarines primary detachment can use the Assault/Tactical/Devastator(?) tactics once a turn but will have no effect on the Iron Hands allied detachment who will have the always on 6+ FnP.

The turn the UM use Tactical discipline, the Iron Hands will not be able to reroll misses and the UM will not receive FnP.

Ok, that makes sense. I remember reading the opposite. Paraphrasing here but it was something to the effect of "Chapter tactics still work even if the Space Marines are allied to another army, and, unless otherwise stated, apply to all models."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

what is to stop a player from taking a unit from every chapter to have insane benefits?

The fact that you can only take one allied detachment (under 2000 points)? And the fact that chapter tactics only apply to units chosen from that chapter, so you can't stack multiple sets of chapter tactics on the same unit?

As that may be, there are a few locations in the area that don't even follow those rules. Its basically No Force Org, fill points requirement, any unit from any army you want. I wasn't even aware of the above rules you posted, because again outside of tournaments the rules are extremely relaxed. Except for.."Absolutely no Forgeworld!"

And what if someone makes a cursed founding chapter and claims , just like the fluff does, that his chapter is a mix of different chapter gene seed and there for should have 2 traits at the same time?

Commissar Benny wrote:

As that may be, there are a few locations in the area that don't even follow those rules. Its basically No Force Org, fill points requirement, any unit from any army you want. I wasn't even aware of the above rules you posted, because again outside of tournaments the rules are extremely relaxed. Except for.."Absolutely no Forgeworld!"

Well then you're basically playing a house ruled, low points level Apocalypse game and then you just need to agree with your opponents how Chapter Tactics works in such a setup.

If you follow the rules as laid out in the main rulebook and codex, then barring a flub from GW, it should work as outlined above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:
And what if someone makes a cursed founding chapter and claims , just like the fluff does, that his chapter is a mix of different chapter gene seed and there for should have 2 traits at the same time?

Again these are all still rumors for another few weeks

I believe in a homebrew chapter or one where the Primarch is unknown you pick one of the first founding traits. So you choose to use Ultramarines, White Scars, Ravenguard, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands or Salamanders and use their tactics. Only one tactics without allies though.

Again these are all still just rumors

Commissar Benny wrote:
As that may be, there are a few locations in the area that don't even follow those rules. Its basically No Force Org, fill points requirement, any unit from any army you want. I wasn't even aware of the above rules you posted, because again outside of tournaments the rules are extremely relaxed. Except for.."Absolutely no Forgeworld!"

So your problem is that when you introduce completely stupid house rules and remove the intended limits on what you can include in an army you find that you can include some "overpowered" things? TBH, who cares? If you're playing by the normal rules of the game the chapter tactics thing isn't even close to be a problem. If you aren't you have only yourself to blame.

And I really have to laugh at the sheer absurdity of banning FW rules while allowing no-FOC armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:
And what if someone makes a cursed founding chapter and claims , just like the fluff does, that his chapter is a mix of different chapter gene seed and there for should have 2 traits at the same time?

Then you tell them to stop being stupid and play by the rules. The fact that someone can come up with ridiculous house rules for their own personal army doesn't mean you're obligated to listen to them.

 Peregrine wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:
As that may be, there are a few locations in the area that don't even follow those rules. Its basically No Force Org, fill points requirement, any unit from any army you want. I wasn't even aware of the above rules you posted, because again outside of tournaments the rules are extremely relaxed. Except for.."Absolutely no Forgeworld!"

So your problem is that when you introduce completely stupid house rules and remove the intended limits on what you can include in an army you find that you can include some "overpowered" things? TBH, who cares? If you're playing by the normal rules of the game the chapter tactics thing isn't even close to be a problem. If you aren't you have only yourself to blame.

And I really have to laugh at the sheer absurdity of banning FW rules while allowing no-FOC armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Makumba wrote:
And what if someone makes a cursed founding chapter and claims , just like the fluff does, that his chapter is a mix of different chapter gene seed and there for should have 2 traits at the same time?

Then you tell them to stop being stupid and play by the rules. The fact that someone can come up with ridiculous house rules for their own personal army doesn't mean you're obligated to listen to them.

It sounds like this is a problem with my local gaming community. I also find it odd that we have no-FOC but FW units are deemed "broken/outright banned". This is what new players coming into 40k in my area are dealing with.

Commissar Benny wrote:
It sounds like this is a problem with my local gaming community. I also find it odd that we have no-FOC but FW units are deemed "broken/outright banned". This is what new players coming into 40k in my area are dealing with.

This sounds a lot like a case of someone figuring out an overpowered no-FOC army and demanding to use it, while simultaneously being terrified of anything that might challenge them and banning it. You'll see a similar thing happen with people who make minimum-troops lists and always insist on "let's just play kill points" so they don't ever have to worry about the weakness of that strategy. Unfortunately this kind of person can really destroy the hobby for newer players. I would strongly suggest doing something about it and playing by the normal rules.