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I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

Captain Galenus wrote:
Just noticed that all companies but the assault company has been taken down from gw, but they're are being released again with c:sm. im guessing this means that they've put the tanks back in, as it now comes to €600ish.

Don't if anyone else knew this, or if it really means much, but it could make getting a whole chapter a lot easier (or just buy one for €10000!!)

Also there are gunna be a lot of releases this month!!!

IT's because the Tactical, Strnguard, and Vanguard kits are being replaced. Assault company doesn't use any of those, while the tac, veteran, tac reserve all do, and the Dev company fills out the dev squads with tac squads for bodies.

 centuryslayer wrote:
I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

I honestly don't see the logic in it. I see the desire of those other codices to have the special SM only stuff, but the logic is actually against it-
Things like the grav guns, stalker hunter, and centruions make the SM codex stand out as different from the variant books. Remember 5th and how BA were basically Codex: SM+?
Even without grav gun access, there is going to be some crossover sales of the tac squad, sternguard, and vanguard kits among the variant codices, just for parts alone.
There is already a mechanic for integrating the new stuff into variant books, called Allied detachments.
With Allied detachments, adding stuff to the variant SM books by FAQ actually hurts sales, as there would be no need to buy the SM codex if the new stuff is added for free.

Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

Just remember that while it's cheaper than a Chimera, but is only AV10 on all faces and holds less models too.

I also think Landspeeders only have 2HP if I'm remembering correctly?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Captain Galenus wrote:
Just noticed that all companies but the assault company has been taken down from gw, but they're are being released again with c:sm. im guessing this means that they've put the tanks back in, as it now comes to €600ish.

Don't if anyone else knew this, or if it really means much, but it could make getting a whole chapter a lot easier (or just buy one for €10000!!)

Also there are gunna be a lot of releases this month!!!

IT's because the Tactical, Strnguard, and Vanguard kits are being replaced. Assault company doesn't use any of those, while the tac, veteran, tac reserve all do, and the Dev company fills out the dev squads with tac squads for bodies.

 centuryslayer wrote:
I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

I honestly don't see the logic in it. I see the desire of those other codices to have the special SM only stuff, but the logic is actually against it-
Things like the grav guns, stalker hunter, and centruions make the SM codex stand out as different from the variant books. Remember 5th and how BA were basically Codex: SM+?
Even without grav gun access, there is going to be some crossover sales of the tac squad, sternguard, and vanguard kits among the variant codices, just for parts alone.
There is already a mechanic for integrating the new stuff into variant books, called Allied detachments.
With Allied detachments, adding stuff to the variant SM books by FAQ actually hurts sales, as there would be no need to buy the SM codex if the new stuff is added for free.

As a Blood Angels player (among other armies), I can honestly say I hope they don't just copy+paste CSM and add Sanguinary Guard/Furioso's. God that would suck.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

Someone in GW worked out the Storms don't sell well, then.

Or it just means that they were not really well placed and should have always been a dedicated transport.

Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

Storms had a number of strikes against them, many which have been removed.

They were a non-dedicated transport for scouts. So it ate up a FA pick. If you were doing a scout themed army, those were FA picks that could be used for scout bikers

The scouts you wanted to drag around (non-snipers) were oft maligned. People whine about how bad assault marines are in CC, and scouts in that role are just worse. Scoring and cheap, but not very effective.

You could do drive by shootings with bolters and shotguns, but how many points do you want to invest in some highly mobile, mediocre firepower?

Anybody who was playing a mobile army can now have troops that can keep up, without eating FA slots

Bolter drill will boost the effectiveness of drive by shootings for IF scouts.

The new launcher is more generically useful then the old one, which was kinda gimmicky. Not sure about the jammer, have to see the fine print.

I was on the fence for a while about picking one of these guys up. Might pull the trigger and grab one. Once I work down my painting queue a bit first though...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

If something is selling poorly, there are generally three reasons:

1: It's ugly as sin
2: It's a sub-par unit on the table (for whatever reason)
3: The price is out of wack for what you get.

Now all of these things are subjective, but I don't think I've ever heard someone complain about how it looks, and it's price is about what I expect, compared to similar kits.

But the rules were always the short point. So they took the old rules and made the unit more balanced. Yes, this will generate more sales, but it is also part of fixing broken units in the codex.

Yeah I totally want to get a Storm now, that change to Dedicated transport really put it on the radar!

@Nevelon: I'm building a Crimson Fist force so thanks for the Bolter drill drive by heads up ;P

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

 centuryslayer wrote:
Yeah I totally want to get a Storm now, that change to Dedicated transport really put it on the radar!

@Nevelon: I'm building a Crimson Fist force so thanks for the Bolter drill drive by heads up ;P

Rogal Dorn was apparently the fan of drive bys and hitting the enemy with a Death Blossom.

I can dig that. :p

xruslanx wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

Yeah the whole "poor selling/new models always get the best rules" mantra really doesn't fly. If it did, Mutilators, warp talons, DA Flyers, Chariot of Tzeentch, and the entire SoB army would be top tier right now.

Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

 SickSix wrote:
Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

Well, White Dwarf/PDF added Night Spinner for Eldar.

People have wished for the Storm to be a dedicated transport since the 5th edition book came out.

xruslanx wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

I think most things publicly traded companies do are cynical money grabs, they're there to make a profit and they do what they can to improve the sales of certain products. In this case the landspeeder storm, which I haven't seen in many space marine armies, becomes a more viable option and thus improves the likelihood of sales. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's not universal, but it is a feature of releases.

Sorry, but what about my statement suggests I think all units should be made rubbish? I'm simply stating that when they identify a unit that has turned out to sell poorly, they make a change to rectify that.


I'd suggest new models don't always get the best rules because there's a certain amount of reliance on 'new shiny' syndrome where the very fatc of it being new or looking cool is enough to encourage a purchase. I don't particularly like Chaos, but I though those Warp Talons look great and I would buy some if I had a chaos army regardless of rules. If it turns out Mutilators have sold particularly poorly by the time the next Chaos Marine Codex rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see them either get a redesign or a rules boost depending on the perceived reason for their lack of success.

To bring it back on topic, I bet the New Sternguard and Vanguard kits will suffer no such problems because the close-ups in the new pics show the awesome amount of detail on the kits. I like the look of the SG belt accessory that seems to be different types of bolter round. I'm also really loving some of the new Tactical squad details, like the shoulder pad with the built in aquila.

 centuryslayer wrote:
Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

A little known fact that in his downtime Dorn was a notorious mobster?

So it seems more Q&As are in order for clarification. Anyone got anything they want me to ask?

5 drop pod iron clads with ITND hahaha so much fun ahead!

All I was hopeing for was the ability to field all LoTD as an acutal chapter..........sigh

One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:
Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

A little known fact that in his downtime Dorn was a notorious mobster?

So it seems more Q&As are in order for clarification. Anyone got anything they want me to ask?

The Chapter is actually called the Crimson Fists for an enterily different reason than suggested....

I believe that vehicles automatically pass Initiative checks. Not 100% sure on this one. that is if they dont have an initiative.

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

damnit, that would have been pretty neat

Tau blacksun filters give immunity to the Blind USR, at least it will still work on their infantry models though.



mmmm... 666th Post. I may have to stop posting for a bit.

The MM storm is going to be a vicious little runt. It doesn't have the 12 Front armor of a Chimera, but it has a 5+ jink and fills entirely different rolls.

With the scouts it's a good 25 points cheaper than it was in 5th ed.

12" scout + 12" move + 12" range for double dice pen on a melta shot=36" range double dice pen threat range on deployment.

12" move + 12" range for double dice pen on a melta shot=24" threat range when outflanking.

Storm's are open topped and scouts a very points efficient in CC against vehicles with a 10 or 11 rear armor.

The blind can't really be relied upon against I3/I4 opponents, but at a 50%/33% chance of failing the test opponents really won't like you throwing blind at them. It also really punishes opponents that cluster squads close together. Even if they are I4 if 2 squads are hit those are pretty much the same odds of a squad being blinded as I2 opponents.

Blind is great extra utility against Tau, crons, orks, and TMC.

Storms are not going to be broken, but they seem very competitive. I'm expecting to see a lot of them.

 centuryslayer wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

damnit, that would have been pretty neat

Indeed, I thought I had something there...

 schadenfreude wrote:

Storms are not going to be broken, but they seem very competitive. I'm expecting to see a lot of them.

Plus they're great-looking models when loaded with Scouts. I'm going to be dusting mine off.

I think the MM is a pretty good choice tho' , I need to get me a Storm >___>