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Two things

-Tau (just cos, they're Tau)

-Space Marines because they are GW poster child and win everything, Ultramarines in particular

-Volsung- wrote:Lack of the f-word.

They've used all sorts of cursing, but no f-word?

How will 40k ever be an HBO special?

Think about the evolution of swear words over the last few thousand years. Now think about how they'll continue to evolve over the next 38 thousand.

DrSchwartz wrote:Two things

-Tau (just cos, they're Tau)

-Space Marines because they are GW poster child and win everything, Ultramarines in particular

I can understand hating aspects of them, but don't you think hating an entire army is going a bit far?

I actually really like that the Emperor didnt claim himself to be a god, but got bombarded to one afterwards.

What I dislike is that some SM are like super warriors who don't seem to be impressed by anything they face whilst others are frail like women, it is confusing at times. But the Emperors light can not shine on all I guess.

 Wilytank wrote:
This is going to sound petty, I don't like how the Imperial Fists' color is yellow. It's a terrible color. And it's unfortunate because they have cool fluff and combat doctrine, but they have such a garish color. Even pink looks better on Power Armor. As Joe from Reservoir Dogs says it to Steve Buscemi's character when he complains about being called Mr. Pink: "Be thankful you're not Mr. Yellow."

A mustard yellow isn't that garish, Y'know.

New angsty team-Edward Dark Eldar fighting their "inner hunger".

Gimmie back my back the old unabashed villainous-for-villainous-sake Dark Eldar

Also the new over-wolfed wolf-riding wolf-claw-wielding wolf-guard Space Wolves are rather idiotic, even if they aren't having a circle-dance-rave with Striking Scorpions in the Great Hall of Fenris or slaugher Sisters of Battle for no good reason at all

 Locclo wrote:
I can't recall the details in any way, shape or form, but I vaguely remember a scene in Fulgrim where the Eldar offered their aid in order to prevent the Heresy from ripping the Imperium in half, and not only did they not believe them, they got into a huge fight over it.

As far as I know the Eldar were just trying to warn Fulgrim of Horus' treachery but Fulgrim was already (partially) corrupted. Fulgrim got angry and when Eldrad realised what the Laer sword was the situation escalated I think. Regardless, the Imperium and Eldar do occasionally fight on the same side; just not often. They have different goals. Nothing the Imperium does is going to allow them actually forge an alliance with them.

I don't like the Ultramarines fluff where all other Space Marines wish they were Ultramarines... yeah, right.

Also the way 40K has become more kid friendly. Mainly Slaanesh, no more are the demonettes tit's out whores of lust, they now seem to scoot around the subject of sex entirely.

 Zweischneid wrote:
or slaugher Sisters of Battle for no good reason at all

Wasn't a slaughter, they fought for three weeks before the Ecclesiarchy withdrew because they saw it wasn't worth it. Nothing is said about the number of casualties taken on either side.

 DrSchwartz wrote:


-Space Marines because they are GW poster child and win everything, Ultramarines in particular

I'm in the same boat as you really. I don't really hate Space Marines, but they are annoying. Annoying in the fact that everybody plays them, everybody loves them, every other beginner thinks they're soooo good because "yay 3+ saves - mah armur iz inpenetruble" and GW gives them far too much attention. There are other races, y'know

 sing your life wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
This is going to sound petty, I don't like how the Imperial Fists' color is yellow. It's a terrible color. And it's unfortunate because they have cool fluff and combat doctrine, but they have such a garish color. Even pink looks better on Power Armor. As Joe from Reservoir Dogs says it to Steve Buscemi's character when he complains about being called Mr. Pink: "Be thankful you're not Mr. Yellow."

A mustard yellow isn't that garish, Y'know.

Well, you certainly don't see the other chapters rubbing mustard all over their stuff.

Also, yellow can mean cowardly. I doubt anyone could be scared if they heard they were going up against the "yellow marines".

First. How are Xenos not getting attention? Codex Tau and Codex Eldar are just about the best codices ever. Necrons and DE have the best miniature line in the game (and at worst good codices). If anyone's getting dumped on its Chaos.

Second, if 40k isn't kid friendly, it won't exist.

Third, the angry marines are yellow.

Atheist God emperor of mankind using warp powers to spread atheism to keep the population ignorant of the chaos gods so they would cease to exist. Then lorgar, primarch of the word bearers, the first heretics is actually the founder of the imperial cult, abandons that faith to worship the true gods, and starts an entire uprising because the emperor mindslapped him.

Void dragon buried on Mars almost defeated the God emperor, and is now often confused as the spirit of the God emperor, wouldn't all the good thoughts in the universe make the void dragon more powerful?

 aapch45 wrote:


Void dragon buried on Mars almost defeated the God emperor, and is now often confused as the spirit of the God emperor, wouldn't all the good thoughts in the universe make the void dragon more powerful?

I think the empreh keeps reading/stealing his mail

 Wilytank wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
This is going to sound petty, I don't like how the Imperial Fists' color is yellow. It's a terrible color. And it's unfortunate because they have cool fluff and combat doctrine, but they have such a garish color. Even pink looks better on Power Armor. As Joe from Reservoir Dogs says it to Steve Buscemi's character when he complains about being called Mr. Pink: "Be thankful you're not Mr. Yellow."

A mustard yellow isn't that garish, Y'know.

Well, you certainly don't see the other chapters rubbing mustard all over their stuff.

Also, yellow can mean cowardly. I doubt anyone could be scared if they heard they were going up against the "yellow marines".

The fact that these marines choose to use to wear yellow instead of a less-visable [and therefore safer] colour can show a lot about their strength. It's more "those marines are yellow, they have no fear" [but their not stupid ] .

Also I don't think Blue and gold/Red marines sound any scarier.

Iron Hands.

"We are weak and we hate everyone, including ourselves. Because of that we are obsessed to remove our exceptional flesh and bone in order to replace it with bionics. That's right,
we are that pitiful".

Considering how hard and time consuming it is to create Space Marine it is insane that Iron Hands deliberately mutilate their bodies to become something completely different creature. Why
create Space Marines in the first place, when their innate desire and chapter belief is to be something that is not Space Marine?

The asexuality. It's perfectly acceptable to have citadels festooned with the dripping intestines of human sacrifices, or to have plots about genocide through eugenics or chemical weapons, but we're apparently not mature enough to handle a romantic subplot?

What little romance is seen in 40k novels is tame to the point of 1950's film standards. It's really, really silly. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is, but all the possible motivations behind this decision that I can think of are ridiculous. From what I've seen in Abnett and Bowden's writings outside of their novels, they seem to imply that they wanted greater emphasis on the romantic relationships in their books, and were "gently encouraged" to play them down.

I'm not saying that the next book should be 'Fifty Shades of Chaos' or anything, but I think I can handle characters acting more like people. Even in times of intense warfare, humans carve out the time to get into romantic entanglements. I'd like to see that reflected more in 40k.


Runner up: Chaos in general. If it isn't written by Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden, every chaos story I've seen seems to revolve around "We're evil because...evil! Raaawr!" There seems to be a consistent lack of clear, understandable motivation for Chaos followers. That's okay when it comes to demons (they're creatures of chaos, so they don't have to think logically. I can accept that.) But humans, at some point, had to have a moment where they agreed to go down the chaos-road willingly, and for some reason. By and large, the stuff I've read never seems to make sense on that score.

 Jimsolo wrote:
The asexuality. It's perfectly acceptable to have citadels festooned with the dripping intestines of human sacrifices, or to have plots about genocide through eugenics or chemical weapons, but we're apparently not mature enough to handle a romantic subplot?

What little romance is seen in 40k novels is tame to the point of 1950's film standards. It's really, really silly. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is, but all the possible motivations behind this decision that I can think of are ridiculous. From what I've seen in Abnett and Bowden's writings outside of their novels, they seem to imply that they wanted greater emphasis on the romantic relationships in their books, and were "gently encouraged" to play them down.

I'm not saying that the next book should be 'Fifty Shades of Chaos' or anything, but I think I can handle characters acting more like people. Even in times of intense warfare, humans carve out the time to get into romantic entanglements. I'd like to see that reflected more in 40k.

Because love fuels Slaanesh and ergo being in love means that daemonettes will crawl out of your nose and then violate you with a strap on.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'm not saying that the next book should be 'Fifty Shades of Chaos' or anything, but I think I can handle characters acting more like people. Even in times of intense warfare, humans carve out the time to get into romantic entanglements. I'd like to see that reflected more in 40k.

Fifty Shades of Chaos; When young Sororitas Acolyte Anastasia Ceremite unwittingly goes to an interrogation with radical inquisitor Caldius Grey, she could not have known the Emperor's will was the furthest thing from his mind.

Be shocked yet thrilled by this sensual and unnerving plunge unto worship of Slaanesh.

Coming this fall, from Black Library.

Yeah, they can have some romance without being Game of Thrones level pornographic. I think the most romantic subplot I've seen was in Know No Fear where the Female Tech priest loves the other tech priest in a Mechanicum kinda way.

Fluff I don't like? Matt Ward writing Ultra Marines and Grey Knights. Don't let him near those two armies ever again.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff I don't like? Matt Ward writing Ultra Marines and Grey Knights. Don't let him near those two armies ever again.

I will second that. I actually really liked the idea of the Grey Knights until the most recent addition to their fluff had them using chaos artifacts because they were immune to chaos, or bathing in the blood of Sororitas to anoint their armor. Also, how does a canonically incorruptible immune-to-chaos group of warrior monks have a second rank of even more pure warriors?

I'd also have liked the Space wolves to have slightly less wolf in their wolf in their wolf.

 kazian wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'm not saying that the next book should be 'Fifty Shades of Chaos' or anything, but I think I can handle characters acting more like people. Even in times of intense warfare, humans carve out the time to get into romantic entanglements. I'd like to see that reflected more in 40k.

Fifty Shades of Chaos; When young Sororitas Acolyte Anastasia Ceremite unwittingly goes to an interrogation with radical inquisitor Caldius Grey, she could not have known the Emperor's will was the furthest thing from his mind.

Be shocked yet thrilled by this sensual and unnerving plunge unto worship of Slaanesh.

Coming this fall, from Black Library.

Have an exalt my eye patch wearing friend!

Man I think I should hang out in the fantasy section more, 40k fans seem to be a very grumpy self loathing lot.

 sandant wrote:
Man I think I should hang out in the fantasy section more, 40k fans seem to be a very grumpy self loathing lot.

Every fandom is grumpy and self loathing.

 sandant wrote:
Man I think I should hang out in the fantasy section more, 40k fans seem to be a very grumpy self loathing lot.

I don't see it as grumpy or self loathing to like certain aspects of a work but not others. Especially when the writers of that work frequently retcon or contradict other aspects of that work.

 LoneLictor wrote:

What bits of fluff do you really dislike about the setting?

Um, anything and I mean ANYTHING by Matt Ward and the stuff about Vulcan being a perpetual.

 Kain wrote:

 sandant wrote:
Man I think I should hang out in the fantasy section more, 40k fans seem to be a very grumpy self loathing lot.

Every fandom is grumpy and self loathing.

Have an exalt.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Runner up: Chaos in general. If it isn't written by Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden, every chaos story I've seen seems to revolve around "We're evil because...evil! Raaawr!" There seems to be a consistent lack of clear, understandable motivation for Chaos followers. That's okay when it comes to demons (they're creatures of chaos, so they don't have to think logically. I can accept that.) But humans, at some point, had to have a moment where they agreed to go down the chaos-road willingly, and for some reason. By and large, the stuff I've read never seems to make sense on that score.

Abnett?

What Abnett books gave you that impression? Abnett's villains tend towards mustache-twirling cartoon villains, almost invariably, from what I've seen.

aushlo wrote:
Pretty much the entirety of the Grey Knights fluff from the newest codex. It reads like a four year old's action figure narrative:

"..And there was this planet full of monsters that none of your guys could defeat, not even your coolest guy, and then my guys came and they totally destroyed all the monsters and then there was one really big monster and then my best guy got the monster cause he is super tough and then my guy killed all your guys too cause he is so tough but he's also SECRET."

this. I honestly only consider the old daemon hunters book and the novels to be canon.
Khornate knights
supreme grand master
cutting the chapter size down by 2000 bodies.

c'mon son.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Runner up: Chaos in general. If it isn't written by Dan Abnett or Aaron Dembski-Bowden, every chaos story I've seen seems to revolve around "We're evil because...evil! Raaawr!" There seems to be a consistent lack of clear, understandable motivation for Chaos followers. That's okay when it comes to demons (they're creatures of chaos, so they don't have to think logically. I can accept that.) But humans, at some point, had to have a moment where they agreed to go down the chaos-road willingly, and for some reason. By and large, the stuff I've read never seems to make sense on that score.

Abnett?

What Abnett books gave you that impression? Abnett's villains tend towards mustache-twirling cartoon villains, almost invariably, from what I've seen.

Everything he's written? Seriously, Eisenhorn is one of the most rounded villains in science fiction history. I think the mistake comes in thinking that Pontius Glaw is the villain of the series: the villain is Gregor himself, sliding ever further into the corrosive influence of Chaos. The entire Inquisitor series has villains that at least make sense, even if it's at times the short-sighted sense you see from meth heads.

Abnett also does some phenomenal Lovecraftian fiction in the 40k 'verse. One of his short stories in Let the Galaxy Burn is probably one of the best Lovecraftian stories I've ever read. Personally, I like how he presents the primarchs in the Horus Heresy as alien and incomprehensible, as mentally superior to the humans around them as they are physically superior (and thus unknowable). Alpharius's fall which, at the end of the day, was made for reasons known only to him (and Omegon) is a far more satisfying fall to Chaos than Fulgrim's "Oh hey, here's a talking alien sword telling me to paint creepy pictures with body fluids. Let's be friends with it." I'd be much happier if he and Bowden were doing the whole Heresy themselves, but there's more tastes than mine in the fandom, and someone needs to write the hardboiled military fic for the people who are into that. (There's nothing wrong with that aspect of the fluff, it just isn't my personal cup of Earl Grey.)

Of course, that's just my opinion. Part of the fun of the epic scale of 40k is that it can accomodate such a broad range of fans with such different tastes, and still be a complete universe.

I think Abnett is the best writer they have. Know No Fear was by far my favorite of the HH series so far. Go read his "Imbedded" its not warhammer but its one of the best sci-fi stories I've ever read. (and I've read a lot.)