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It says Calgar slayed the Swarmlord in single combat. However this is Imperial propaganda so I wouldn't be surprised if "single combat" meant blasting the Swarmlord with all the firepower he could and then walking up to his dead/dying body and punching it in the face.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It says Calgar slayed the Swarmlord in single combat. However this is Imperial propaganda so I wouldn't be surprised if "single combat" meant blasting the Swarmlord with all the firepower he could and then walking up to his dead/dying body and punching it in the face.

As in using common sense in a fight? Nah that would simply be too good to be true, Clagar defeating the Swarmlord in 1vs1 is far more plausible than this franchise having but a single battle fought in a sensible way.

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

 Redcruisair wrote:

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

If the Primarch was already dead that is...

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

If the Primarch was already dead that is...

Iranna.

Or if the Primarch was already on the verge of death, or if the guardsman had some kind of chaos weapon, or if the guardsman had some kind of sniper weapon, or if the guardsman secretly was a psyker, or if the guardsman was driving a dumb tank... you get the idea.

The assassinorium thought they could take a primarch out with a vindicare. ...several times. Given that Horus used a decoy to deal with it, there's likely some truth to the possibility. A vindicare's a lot more specialized than a guardsman, though.

TiamatRoar wrote:
The assassinorium thought they could take a primarch out with a vindicare. ...several times. Given that Horus used a decoy to deal with it, there's likely some truth to the possibility. A vindicare's a lot more specialized than a guardsman, though.

Vindicare is a terrible choice - deamon primarchs are daemons, and should have:
1) Deamonic invulnerability to resist exitus shots
2) True sight to ignore his camouflage
3) Cheatingly fast reaction to counter his evasion skills
Besides, this is what Culexus temple is for.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It says Calgar slayed the Swarmlord in single combat. However this is Imperial propaganda so I wouldn't be surprised if "single combat" meant blasting the Swarmlord with all the firepower he could and then walking up to his dead/dying body and punching it in the face.

As in using common sense in a fight? Nah that would simply be too good to be true, Clagar defeating the Swarmlord in 1vs1 is far more plausible than this franchise having but a single battle fought in a sensible way.

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

No more of a chance than a common thug has a chance of killing Superman.

 Kain wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It says Calgar slayed the Swarmlord in single combat. However this is Imperial propaganda so I wouldn't be surprised if "single combat" meant blasting the Swarmlord with all the firepower he could and then walking up to his dead/dying body and punching it in the face.

As in using common sense in a fight? Nah that would simply be too good to be true, Clagar defeating the Swarmlord in 1vs1 is far more plausible than this franchise having but a single battle fought in a sensible way.

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

No more of a chance than a common thug has a chance of killing Superman.

What if said thug had kryptonite on him?

 motyak wrote:

and the ones that were killed were killed by other primarchs.

Wrong. Very, very wrong

I think 2 of the primarchs that have been killed so far have been killed by other primarchs, 1 by the emperor, and the other 2 by (very talented/numerous) randoms. Although to be fair one of those last two let it happen I think

Sanguinus - Horus
Guilleman - fulgrim
Ferris manus - fulgrim


I think we are at 3 confirmed, counting Roboutte because he's effectively dead

Dorn is believed to have been slained during the 1st Black Crusade.
Konrad Curze was "assassinated" by a Callidus Assassin.
Sanguinius was killed by Horus.
Ferrus Manus killed by Fulgrim.
Horus is dead, utterly destroyed, mind, body and soul, by the Emperor.
Either Alpharius or Omegeon might be dead. But it's Alpha Legion so no one knows.

BrotherVord wrote:

 motyak wrote:

and the ones that were killed were killed by other primarchs.

Wrong. Very, very wrong

I think 2 of the primarchs that have been killed so far have been killed by other primarchs, 1 by the emperor, and the other 2 by (very talented/numerous) randoms. Although to be fair one of those last two let it happen I think

Sanguinus - Horus
Guilleman - fulgrim
Ferris manus - fulgrim


I think we are at 3 confirmed, counting Roboutte because he's effectively dead

I don't get this line of thinking. Where is the line drawn then if we are going to say they 'count as' dead? Are the guys who disappeared into the most dangerous part of the galaxy dead as well? He isn't dead. He may be close, on the cusp even, but until he is actually dead, hes alive.

 Kain wrote:

No more of a chance than a common thug has a chance of killing Superman.

No, just no. Superman can withstand a nuclear strike and move a moon. Primarchs shouldn't be like that, it would be just silly.

No, but they're still worlds above any modern space marine. They were all one of a kinds, uniquely powerful beings that were capable of doing miraculous deeds even on the day they were born unto the worlds that the Warp spat them out in.

Space Marine are but a shadow of the Primarchs that they were once descended from.

 Lynata wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You haven't read either of those books.
Why pretend that you have just so you can mock them?

I don't pretend. In fact, I've been rather open about avoiding them, as you surely must have noticed in another recent thread. I do, however, read forums such as dakka, and trust in the reviews of those who did check them out.

Why, are you saying that these things are untrue, or are you merely trying to chip away at my statements?

It doesn't take much to chip away at your statements, since 90% of their content is using GW's "no canon" policy to subtly disparage BL/FW material, while promoting the "grounded and realistic studio material" that gives us the current Grey Knights Codex or anything with Space Wolves.

Angron stopped the descending foot of a Warhound titan, barely, and almost died doing it. Lorgar absorbed one plasma blast with a kine shield, which broke on the second blast and also melted half of his head off.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 motyak wrote:

VensersRevenge wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 motyak wrote:

and the ones that were killed were killed by other primarchs.

Wrong. Very, very wrong

I think 2 of the primarchs that have been killed so far have been killed by other primarchs, 1 by the emperor, and the other 2 by (very talented/numerous) randoms. Although to be fair one of those last two let it happen I think

Fulgrim has a killcount of 2 primarchs by himself. (he killed manus, the spiritual liege may as well be dead)
The only one killed by anything normal was Curze who let the callidus kill him. Must of took a lot of stabs.........
The only other one was Dorn who we'll probably find out was killed by Daemon Angron or some gak.
You're the wrong one friend.

And Roboute Gulliman might have killed one of the twins.

The operative word there being might. I choose to believe it was a random mook who bought it But then I've always had a soft spot for true loyalists like the Alpha Legion.


And @SaintofKillers, you can make stuff up all you want in regards to Dorn, and there is no proof that Roboute is getting better or worse, and since he isn't dead then he hasn't been killed, and doesn't add to Fulgrim's tally. Leaving the split exactly as I put it. And you are doing exactly what another user used to do in these exact same discussions, inventing things and saying 'this will happen' with absolutely no grounds to stand on, then telling people they are totally wrong and you are right when you get called on it.

You told me I was totally wrong and I said you were totally wrong. Only difference is I'm smart enough to notice. I'm not making things up either, only thing there not 100% fact I'll guarantee you something similar will happen for dramatic effect.
I took college courses on writing, it'd be disappointing to everyone if they didn't do something akin to that. I have grounds
Point being when the heresy series has run it's course, not one primarch will have been killed by anything but another primarch.(Except Curze who basically committed seppuku) It's a prediction. Not making things up.
God forbid you make predictions for a book 3 years in the future, when you have credentials to do so with bits of accuracy.
In conclusion chill, and to any onlooker you're the one who came in calling someone "very, very wrong". Yeah......

Did you take "How to impress people with irrelevant facts I", too? Because in a rational discussion, if a statement about your person does not somehow show you expertise on the SUBJECT, it doesn't strengthen your argument. Having taken college courses, you probably know that. I'm also pretty sure that part of the problem is that, yes, predictions are made up things, after a fashion. Of course yo can predict things if they are governed by observable laws and you can even demonstrate your application of these laws. Bt in that case you should demonstrate that application for the sake of discussion, so that others can follow.. You're ofc right with the statement that after the Heresy, the status of all the primarchs will be they way it has been laid out before the novels were written (barring retcon). But that's not a prediction then.

Omegus wrote:It doesn't take much to chip away at your statements, since 90% of their content is using GW's "no canon" policy to subtly disparage BL/FW material, while promoting the "grounded and realistic studio material" that gives us the current Grey Knights Codex or anything with Space Wolves.

What exactly has canonicity to do with my low opinion on the various superheroics in the HH novels?
I know and, as you surely noticed, occasionally post on said "no canon" policy. That doesn't change anything on how I perceive those books.

Or about how that compares to any shenanigans in GW's own writings (which fall under the same legend/myth cop-out anyways).
Twist: Maybe Draigo only managed to best Mortarion because Primarchs aren't as awesome as HH novels portray them? Perhaps this would help some fans "digest" this admittedly somewhat fishy bit of fluff at least somewhat better.

Omegus wrote:Angron stopped the descending foot of a Warhound titan, barely, and almost died doing it. Lorgar absorbed one plasma blast with a kine shield, which broke on the second blast and also melted half of his head off.

So you're saying that a Primarch only needs half his head to live? I don't really see how that's better.

And stopping a Titan's foot is still redonkolous, regardless of whether you "almost" die doing so or not. What's next, throwing buildings?

My 2 cents.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It says Calgar slayed the Swarmlord in single combat. However this is Imperial propaganda so I wouldn't be surprised if "single combat" meant blasting the Swarmlord with all the firepower he could and then walking up to his dead/dying body and punching it in the face.

As in using common sense in a fight? Nah that would simply be too good to be true, Clagar defeating the Swarmlord in 1vs1 is far more plausible than this franchise having but a single battle fought in a sensible way.

Anyhow let’s get back on track. I’d say that even a humble guardsman could theoretically stand a chance defeating a Primarch if the circumstances of the fight were right.

No more of a chance than a common thug has a chance of killing Superman.

What if said thug had kryptonite on him?

Superman can break every bone in your body faster than you can bring Kryptonite out of any container.

And even if you did have it, it doesn't weaken him enough to stop him from murking you.

And current Superman still has superpowers while exposed to Kryptonite, they're just lessened.

/Comic book nerd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 Kain wrote:

No more of a chance than a common thug has a chance of killing Superman.

No, just no. Superman can withstand a nuclear strike and move a moon. Primarchs shouldn't be like that, it would be just silly.

If by withstand you mean walk off without so much as one hair out of place and by move you mean smash into hard enough for the entire moon to instantly vaporize, then yes.

I honestly wouldn't mind 40k being able to play with top tier comic characters.

Heck I play strike legion which is like 40k on cocaine. There the not space marines have grenades that can destroy planets or replicate exterminatus via orbital bombardment by rolling down the windows and firing their weapons down at the planet.

Kain, calm down man, you are making a scene again. What superman (primarchs) can and can’t do, all depends on the writer’s interpretation of him (them). Some writers have superman soloing the universe itself, others have him losing to a Lex Luther armed with nothing else but kryptonite.

The things you say here:

 Kain wrote:
Superman can break every bone in your body faster than you can bring Kryptonite out of any container.

 Kain wrote:
And even if you did have it, it doesn't weaken him enough to stop him from murking you.

 Kain wrote:
And current Superman still has superpowers while exposed to Kryptonite, they're just lessened.

is just your opinion man, and not some gospel of truth we have to accept.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Kain, calm down man, you are making a scene again. What superman (primarchs) can and can’t do, all depends on the writer’s interpretation of him (them). Some writers have superman soloing the universe itself, others have him losing to a Lex Luther armed with nothing else but kryptonite.

The things you say here:

 Kain wrote:
Superman can break every bone in your body faster than you can bring Kryptonite out of any container.

 Kain wrote:
And even if you did have it, it doesn't weaken him enough to stop him from murking you.

 Kain wrote:
And current Superman still has superpowers while exposed to Kryptonite, they're just lessened.

is just your opinion man, and not some gospel of truth we have to accept.

Pssh, you think I'm actually angry?

I'm just in Comic Book geek mode.

Although Thor's more of my main man than Supes.

 Kain wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
Kain, calm down man, you are making a scene again. What superman (primarchs) can and can’t do, all depends on the writer’s interpretation of him (them). Some writers have superman soloing the universe itself, others have him losing to a Lex Luther armed with nothing else but kryptonite.

The things you say here:

 Kain wrote:
Superman can break every bone in your body faster than you can bring Kryptonite out of any container.

 Kain wrote:
And even if you did have it, it doesn't weaken him enough to stop him from murking you.

 Kain wrote:
And current Superman still has superpowers while exposed to Kryptonite, they're just lessened.

is just your opinion man, and not some gospel of truth we have to accept.

Pssh, you think I'm actually angry?

I'm just in Comic Book geek mode.

Although Thor's more of my main man than Supes.

Nope just messing with you boi

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
Kain, calm down man, you are making a scene again. What superman (primarchs) can and can’t do, all depends on the writer’s interpretation of him (them). Some writers have superman soloing the universe itself, others have him losing to a Lex Luther armed with nothing else but kryptonite.

The things you say here:

 Kain wrote:
Superman can break every bone in your body faster than you can bring Kryptonite out of any container.

 Kain wrote:
And even if you did have it, it doesn't weaken him enough to stop him from murking you.

 Kain wrote:
And current Superman still has superpowers while exposed to Kryptonite, they're just lessened.

is just your opinion man, and not some gospel of truth we have to accept.

Pssh, you think I'm actually angry?

I'm just in Comic Book geek mode.

Although Thor's more of my main man than Supes.

Nope just messing with you boi

Son, I have two sons and a daughter.

Don't be calling me boy.

pffff as if, we are all kids on the inside.

 Redcruisair wrote:
pffff as if, we are all kids on the inside.

You're right....

The eldest two aren't even three yet anyway and I'm in my mid twenties.

>.>

 Lynata wrote:
The Aegis is a defensive measure against corruption, though, not something that enables a kill when otherwise it would not be possible. By the same token we could deploy a bunch of Battle Sisters, seeing as their willpower apparently has a similar effect.

Actually no, the Aegis gives them an actual defense against Warp-spawned attacks and effects.

The Battle Sisters' willpower and devotion aren't going to save them from that chaos sorcerer spitting Warpflame from his nipples at her.

Also, every Grey Knight without question uses force weapons.

Why would a Grey Knight not use his psychic powers anyway?

It's really not like Grey Knights or Inquisitors are the only ones fighting a daemon, and a Daemon Primarch is but a specific type of daemon, just like a Greater One

A specific kind of Daemon that is one of the six most powerful Daemons in existence, yes.

So both things did happen, and the internet merely applied the usual bit of exaggeration.

Yes, both things happened exactly the way you were apparently told, as long as you take out all the lies inside.

That doesn't really change the core statement then, does it?

I guess you're right. "Lorgar was badly wounded and injured by a Plasma Blast Gun" isn't so different from "Lorgar deflected a Plasma Blast Gun with his rippling pecs, giving him a healthy tan".

No-one should survive a plasma blast from a Titan. Not the way I see it, at least.

Yet mere Carnifexes have survived the glassing of a planet. In the studio fluff.

None of that is as ridiculous as people weathering plasma blasts that level entire buildings.

No, actually, I am pretty sure a single dude running through Tzeentch's Infinite Labyrinth and then blasting the Inevitable City to rubble is considerably more over the top as weathering a city-destroying plasma blast. Nor is it more ridiculous than anything Maugan Ra has done.

Also, now it is you who is "exaggerating what you read because it rustled your jimmies", for at least the incident with the orbital bombardment is something I have seen myself, and nowhere did it suggest that their armour could withstand direct hits. We've been over this before - check the source again and note how the Marines were inside a building. As such, they would "merely" have to cope with the debris and the floors coming down on them. Still quite a feat, obviously, but not as ludicrous as you make it out to be. If this were in a movie, I'd have no problem watching it. The above Primarch stories, on the other hand, are firmly in "superhero" territory, and superheroes just don't fit into my perception of 40k. That's really all there is to it.

The text disagrees with you.

"Protected by their armour, the Grey Knights weather the storm of barrage bombs exploding amidst the ruins"
- Page 17

Also, in-game, these city-bombarding barrage bombs? They are S7, AP4.

Oh, and on the next page, the Invaders chapter withstands a psychic bomb that "rocks the planet on its axis" pretty well, whereas the guardsmen accompanying them were incinerated immediately.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with superheroes per se - when the setting is designed to house them. I've read my share of Spiderman in my childhood, watched the X-Men cartoon, and recently was very entertained by the Avengers movie. I've even played a superhero in CO. And I might actually enjoy the Primarch things if they were their own thing instead of "invading" a setting that I perceive to belong to a different genre, so to say.

In a way, you could say I'm applying different expectations of reality to the various franchises. When watching the Avengers movie, I expect nothing but some good popcorn entertainment. When reading about 40k, I am analysing the factions, read up on the technology, and apply a requirement for things to "fit together" that would be unthinkable in a superhero comic setting.

40k is one of the softest science fiction settings out there though.

Also, for the "Primarch things", how do you explain them fighting and besting powerful Greater Daemons one on one, without them being superheroic douchebags?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redcruisair wrote:
What if said thug had kryptonite on him?

Just ask Batman how well Kryptonite bridged the different between him and Superman in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

Read: It didn't, and Batman was dragged halfway across Gotham on his own bat grapnel.

And anyway, Primarchs don't have specific, exploitable weaknesses like Superman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omegus wrote:

It doesn't take much to chip away at your statements, since 90% of their content is using GW's "no canon" policy to subtly disparage BL/FW material, while promoting the "grounded and realistic studio material" that gives us the current Grey Knights Codex or anything with Space Wolves.

Angron stopped the descending foot of a Warhound titan, barely, and almost died doing it. Lorgar absorbed one plasma blast with a kine shield, which broke on the second blast and also melted half of his head off.

It's funny, because as written by McNeill, Angron would have thrown that Warhound Titan off of him with one hand.

Betrayer's exploits are not even the most outstanding examples of Primarch power.

Void__Dragon wrote:Actually no, the Aegis gives them an actual defense against Warp-spawned attacks and effects.
The Battle Sisters' willpower and devotion aren't going to save them from that chaos sorcerer spitting Warpflame from his nipples at her.

Actually yes, that Battle Sister would be granted a 6+ saving roll against Warpflame because she has the Shield of Faith special rule.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, every Grey Knight without question uses force weapons.
Why would a Grey Knight not use his psychic powers anyway?

Dunno. Perhaps because sometimes a bolter is sufficient and you don't even need to go into melee?

Void__Dragon wrote:A specific kind of Daemon that is one of the six most powerful Daemons in existence, yes.

Going by Angron's rules, he has the same Strength, the same Weapon Skill and the same Toughness as a Bloodthirster ... just requires one more Wound to be put down.
But perhaps you think the other Primarchs are stronger or tougher than Angron? It's not something I would necessarily agree with, but hey .. we all have our opinions.

Void__Dragon wrote:Yet mere Carnifexes have survived the glassing of a planet. In the studio fluff.

I don't see the problem as long as the Lance doesn't impact the Carnifex directly.
There is such a thing as "cover" - even from orbital bombardment.

Void__Dragon wrote:No, actually, I am pretty sure a single dude running through Tzeentch's Infinite Labyrinth and then blasting the Inevitable City to rubble is considerably more over the top as weathering a city-destroying plasma blast.

Not for me. Because that's the Warp, which operates under different laws of reality. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "no reality at all".
Don't get me wrong - I have no love for that story, as it certainly hits the same tones I criticise in the HH novels, but in its location and happenings it is so obviously fantastical and removed from the physical world and its own laws that I have little problem simply moving on. Indeed, it may well be that the dakkanauts who theorise that Draigo's "exploits" are merely part of a greater plan of Chaos. Either way, the realms of the Chaos Gods - including the Inevitable City - are in constant flux and get reshaped all the time. One cannot conquer the Warp, and Draigo is just one more element in a huge play between the different entities calling this plane their home.

Oh, and since we just talked about exaggerations in the retelling of events ... "city walls", as the Codex fluff says in truth, does not mean the entire city.

I'm not as well-versed in Eldar fluff, though, so I can't comment on Maugan Ra. I'm content with retaining my imagination that its impact would be similarly softened by relativising factors.

Void__Dragon wrote:The text disagrees with you.
"Protected by their armour, the Grey Knights weather the storm of barrage bombs exploding amidst the ruins"

That is not a disagreement. Ruins are still cover that serves as an additional protection to the Marines' power armour.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, in-game, these city-bombarding barrage bombs? They are S7, AP4.

We've been over this before.

Void__Dragon wrote:Oh, and on the next page, the Invaders chapter withstands a psychic bomb that "rocks the planet on its axis" pretty well, whereas the guardsmen accompanying them were incinerated immediately.

I'm not surprised that power armour would be somewhat flame-resistant. This is even in line with GW's Inquisitor RPG:
"Ceramite: This is a ceramic-based armour which is made to absorb and reflect heat. Armour with a ceramite coating counts as being D6 higher against the following weapon types: plasma, melta and flamer."

Void__Dragon wrote:40k is one of the softest science fiction settings out there though.

I find it no more fantastical than Star Wars or Star Trek. Of course you could argue that those are "soft" settings as well with their various supernatural beings and plots, but I'd hardly put them on the same pedestral as, say, Superman.

Let's face it - you like 40k to be one thing, I prefer it as another. The material at least caters to both of us by letting us cherrypick what we like.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, for the "Primarch things", how do you explain them fighting and besting powerful Greater Daemons one on one, without them being superheroic douchebags?

Perhaps because, as I have often pointed out, technology can provide a significant increase in the bearer's inherent abilities. When a Guardsman can fight and best an Ork if you give him a lasgun, if a Battle Sister can fight and best a Hive Tyrant if you give her a power maul, then perhaps a Space Marine can fight and best a Greater Daemon if you give him "+1" enhancements and/or an even better weapon than a standard power sword.
Or, perhaps, all of those instances of single combat are just myth and legend, as the authors and sometimes even the books themselves tell us. Was I the only one who noticed the huge "this is the current revision of what the Imperium tells its people" disclaimer in the 6E rulebook? Was I the only one taking Marc Gascogne's statements regarding Black Library novels to heart?

 Lynata wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Actually no, the Aegis gives them an actual defense against Warp-spawned attacks and effects.
The Battle Sisters' willpower and devotion aren't going to save them from that chaos sorcerer spitting Warpflame from his nipples at her.

Actually yes, that Battle Sister would be granted a 6+ saving roll against Warpflame because she has the Shield of Faith special rule.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, every Grey Knight without question uses force weapons.
Why would a Grey Knight not use his psychic powers anyway?

Dunno. Perhaps because sometimes a bolter is sufficient and you don't even need to go into melee?

Void__Dragon wrote:A specific kind of Daemon that is one of the six most powerful Daemons in existence, yes.

Going by Angron's rules, he has the same Strength, the same Weapon Skill and the same Toughness as a Bloodthirster ... just requires one more Wound to be put down.
But perhaps you think the other Primarchs are stronger or tougher than Angron? It's not something I would necessarily agree with, but hey .. we all have our opinions.

Void__Dragon wrote:Yet mere Carnifexes have survived the glassing of a planet. In the studio fluff.

I don't see the problem as long as the Lance doesn't impact the Carnifex directly.
There is such a thing as "cover" - even from orbital bombardment.

Void__Dragon wrote:No, actually, I am pretty sure a single dude running through Tzeentch's Infinite Labyrinth and then blasting the Inevitable City to rubble is considerably more over the top as weathering a city-destroying plasma blast.

Not for me. Because that's the Warp, which operates under different laws of reality. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "no reality at all".
Don't get me wrong - I have no love for that story, as it certainly hits the same tones I criticise in the HH novels, but in its location and happenings it is so obviously fantastical and removed from the physical world and its own laws that I have little problem simply moving on. Indeed, it may well be that the dakkanauts who theorise that Draigo's "exploits" are merely part of a greater plan of Chaos. Either way, the realms of the Chaos Gods - including the Inevitable City - are in constant flux and get reshaped all the time. One cannot conquer the Warp, and Draigo is just one more element in a huge play between the different entities calling this plane their home.

Oh, and since we just talked about exaggerations in the retelling of events ... "city walls", as the Codex fluff says in truth, does not mean the entire city.

I'm not as well-versed in Eldar fluff, though, so I can't comment on Maugan Ra. I'm content with retaining my imagination that its impact would be similarly softened by relativising factors.

Void__Dragon wrote:The text disagrees with you.
"Protected by their armour, the Grey Knights weather the storm of barrage bombs exploding amidst the ruins"

That is not a disagreement. Ruins are still cover that serves as an additional protection to the Marines' power armour.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, in-game, these city-bombarding barrage bombs? They are S7, AP4.

We've been over this before.

Void__Dragon wrote:Oh, and on the next page, the Invaders chapter withstands a psychic bomb that "rocks the planet on its axis" pretty well, whereas the guardsmen accompanying them were incinerated immediately.

I'm not surprised that power armour would be somewhat flame-resistant. This is even in line with GW's Inquisitor RPG:
"Ceramite: This is a ceramic-based armour which is made to absorb and reflect heat. Armour with a ceramite coating counts as being D6 higher against the following weapon types: plasma, melta and flamer."

Void__Dragon wrote:40k is one of the softest science fiction settings out there though.

I find it no more fantastical than Star Wars or Star Trek. Of course you could argue that those are "soft" settings as well with their various supernatural beings and plots, but I'd hardly put them on the same pedestral as, say, Superman.

Let's face it - you like 40k to be one thing, I prefer it as another. The material at least caters to both of us by letting us cherrypick what we like.

Void__Dragon wrote:Also, for the "Primarch things", how do you explain them fighting and besting powerful Greater Daemons one on one, without them being superheroic douchebags?

Perhaps because, as I have often pointed out, technology can provide a significant increase in the bearer's inherent abilities. When a Guardsman can fight and best an Ork if you give him a lasgun, if a Battle Sister can fight and best a Hive Tyrant if you give her a power maul, then perhaps a Space Marine can fight and best a Greater Daemon if you give him "+1" enhancements and/or an even better weapon than a standard power sword.
Or, perhaps, all of those instances of single combat are just myth and legend, as the authors and sometimes even the books themselves tell us. Was I the only one who noticed the huge "this is the current revision of what the Imperium tells its people" disclaimer in the 6E rulebook? Was I the only one taking Marc Gascogne's statements regarding Black Library novels to heart?

What's with this demystification of a FANTASY world 38000 years in the future you have? That attitude is so idiotic on so many levels, that it reflects on the thinker very poorly.
BTW pretty sure Bloodthirsters can already throw buildings, and primarchs gak on them.
Ruins cover against barrage bombs that shred ceramite? Yeah.......

You have your preferences, I have mine.

That you have to resort to insults to defend your position is, I think, more reflective of your person than my own preferences in fiction are of mine.

"Sorry that I don't love your stuff!"

I have to admit, I was about to get pretty PO'd at you Lynata, because I was like "wtf I didn't insult you", but it has been pointed out to me that you were referring to Saint of Killers.

I'll respond to your post to me later, lol.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
What if said thug had kryptonite on him?

Just ask Batman how well Kryptonite bridged the different between him and Superman in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

Read: It didn't, and Batman was dragged halfway across Gotham on his own bat grapnel.

And anyway, Primarchs don't have specific, exploitable weaknesses like Superman.

No? So Horus body wasn’t weak to chaos magic, nor did the Chaos gods exploit his arrogance and need for power? And apparently Angron didn’t have any problems with psykers after all. The excessive nose bleeding and seizure like symptoms he suffered from were (according to you,) just the unfortunate consequence of getting his head hit a few too many times!

Get on my level Void_Fish.

 Lynata wrote:
You have your preferences, I have mine.

That you have to resort to insults to defend your position is, I think, more reflective of your person than my own preferences in fiction are of mine.

"Sorry that I don't love your stuff!"

You're killing mysticism in a fantasy world..... I'm sorry but that's pigheaded
Notice how you're alone in these views? That's speaks to thier level of coherency and formulation