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In some discussions about drop pods and reserves some friends and I have some 'discussions' regarding the rules for reserves, deep-striking, and dedicated transports all sparked from discussions about the legality of using a drop pod wall (all arriving empty from reserves). In the interest of disclosure I do not believe this is legal but the ambiguity of the rules leaves me without the nice clear answer I want. I believe in previous editions there was more explicit language about dedicated transports but this editions it seems there are a few holes in how everything is phrased.

The most common reference for dedicated transports is the familiar BRB pg 78 reference:
"The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it). After the game begins, it can then Transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."

The SM FAQ states:
Q: Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside? (p69)
A: Yes you can.

Looking at the main rule book:
reserve rules (pg 124) state that the squad and its vehicle are treated as a single unit for reserves.
Deep strike rules (pg 36) state that all models in the unit must have the deep strike rule and also that any units deep-striking must be declared before the game.

So unless you had a squad that naturally had deep-strike(termies, jump packs) wouldn't they HAVE to be left in the drop pod or violate the deep-strike rule?
Doesn't the reserve rule force you to have them come in at the same time?


So to further explore the possible shenanigans:
Would you be able to declare that a unit is arriving via 1 method and its transport is arriving via another method e.g. squad outflanks, dedicated transport arrives from table edge?


If the squad was to not embarked in its drop pod and did not have deep strike capability wouldn't that violate the deep strike rules if it came in from regular reserves(arrived from the table from the edge).


Can you keep a drop pod and its squad in reserve, but have the drop pod arrive on turn 1 while walking the squad out on turn 1?
Could the squad outflank on turn 1 using this method if they were granted the ability through other methods?


Does this mean you can place the squad on the table initially and keep the empty drop pod in reserves?


As an extension of the original question, how would all this affect a terminator squad with a dedicated transport(land raider). Can the squad stay in reserves to deep-strike and the LR start the game on the table?
Could the squad and LR stay in reserves with the squad Deep-striking while the LR arrives from the board edge?

I actually tried sending these questions to GW, but no response has been forthcoming. It's possible with the new SM codex some of this will go away, but ultimately it seems like there seems to be some grey area in how to treat squads with dedicated transports when it comes to reserves.

Lot of text here, so I will break it down a bit.

pk1 wrote:
The most common reference for dedicated transports is the familiar BRB pg 78 reference:
"The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that have joined it). After the game begins, it can then Transport any friendly Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry."

This only tells us that if you had a Rhino, then only the unit that purchased it can start in it, no one else can. Being in the transport is still optional.

The SM FAQ states:
Q: Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside? (p69)
A: Yes you can.

This gives you permission to run empty Drop Pods. Not really relevant to the question, but I understand why you posted it.

Looking at the main rule book:
reserve rules (pg 124) state that the squad and its vehicle are treated as a single unit for reserves.

This is slightly wrong. A squad and it's dedicated transport count as a single unit when determining how many units can be placed in Reserves.
The following paragraph says that (any) transport and its contents come in on a single roll.

Deep strike rules (pg 36) state that all models in the unit must have the deep strike rule and also that any units deep-striking must be declared before the game.

That is correct.

So unless you had a squad that naturally had deep-strike(termies, jump packs) wouldn't they HAVE to be left in the drop pod or violate the deep-strike rule?

No, as the Drop Pod and it's contents are separate units.

Doesn't the reserve rule force you to have them come in at the same time?

Only if the unit is embarked on the transport.

Would you be able to declare that a unit is arriving via 1 method and its transport is arriving via another method e.g. squad outflanks, dedicated transport arrives from table edge?

Yes, but they would be rolled for separately.

Can you keep a drop pod and its squad in reserve, but have the drop pod arrive on turn 1 while walking the squad out on turn 1?

Yes and no. The Drop Pod can arrive empty on Turn 1, but the squad (as it is not embarked) would be rolled for separately.

Could the squad outflank on turn 1 using this method if they were granted the ability through other methods?

No for the same reason above. Unless it had a special rule to come in on Turn 1.

Does this mean you can place the squad on the table initially and keep the empty drop pod in reserves?

Yes.

As an extension of the original question, how would all this affect a terminator squad with a dedicated transport(land raider). Can the squad stay in reserves to deep-strike and the LR start the game on the table?
Could the squad and LR stay in reserves with the squad Deep-striking while the LR arrives from the board edge?

Yes to both. Note that in the second scenario, they would be rolled for separately.

I actually tried sending these questions to GW, but no response has been forthcoming.

That was your first mistake. GW does not answer questions via e-mails and their phone support...you can call 4 times and get 6 different answers.

About the deep strike rule. Transports confer whatever movement ability they have to units that embarked upon it. That's a fairly decent way to explain it. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to move a transport more than 6" in the movement phase.

So if a vehicle has deep strike it carries on to whatever is inside of it. Remember though that those units also count as having deep striking for difficult /dangerous purposes.

You do not have to deploy a dedicated transport with it's unit embarked, so a drop pod can enter play empty.

The single unit part is a bit tricky. The rules here have a bit of wiggle room. The rules state that a unit and its dedicated transport count as a single unit for reserve purposes. However, the prevailing attitude is that this still allows you to deploy them at separate times.

While I don't agree with this interpretation. I've never played it, nor come across anyone that plays it, in any other manner.

 Idolator wrote:


So if a vehicle has deep strike it carries on to whatever is inside of it. Remember though that those units also count as having deep striking for difficult /dangerous purposes.

Does this mean that if a pod scatters into area terrain, the pod takes a dangerous terrain test AND the squad inside takes dangerous terrain tests as well? What about if the pod lands in clear terrain but the squad decides to disembark into terrain?

jeremesh wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


So if a vehicle has deep strike it carries on to whatever is inside of it. Remember though that those units also count as having deep striking for difficult /dangerous purposes.

Does this mean that if a pod scatters into area terrain, the pod takes a dangerous terrain test AND the squad inside takes dangerous terrain tests as well? What about if the pod lands in clear terrain but the squad decides to disembark into terrain?

That's always been a tricky one. The models inside a transport are arriving via deep strike just as the transport is. According to the rules as written they would have take dangerous terrain tests if the transport landed in terrain and/or if they disembarked into terrain.

Now, at various times, vs various opponents I've played it several ways. Just like the way mentioned above as well as the passengers don't take the tests at all and also that the passengers only take the test if they themselves disembark into terrain.

It's a bit subjective, like an unfortunate amount of the rules.

 Idolator wrote:

jeremesh wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


So if a vehicle has deep strike it carries on to whatever is inside of it. Remember though that those units also count as having deep striking for difficult /dangerous purposes.

Does this mean that if a pod scatters into area terrain, the pod takes a dangerous terrain test AND the squad inside takes dangerous terrain tests as well? What about if the pod lands in clear terrain but the squad decides to disembark into terrain?

That's always been a tricky one. The models inside a transport are arriving via deep strike just as the transport is. According to the rules as written they would have take dangerous terrain tests if the transport landed in terrain and/or if they disembarked into terrain.

Now, at various times, vs various opponents I've played it several ways. Just like the way mentioned above as well as the passengers don't take the tests at all and also that the passengers only take the test if they themselves disembark into terrain.

It's a bit subjective, like an unfortunate amount of the rules.

Not quite on the dangerous terrain check for disembarking from a vehicle that deep-struck. The models exiting the vehicle are simply moving through difficult terrain(pg 79). The vehicle model enters dangerous terrain as a deep strike, but the troops inside disembark as normal through difficult terrain (as in slowly). Termies deep striking into difficult terrain would have to check for dangerous terrain as those models are deep-striking into difficult terrain.


So as for the original questions, much of it stems from the way reserves are phrased. The wording of reserves makes mention of treating a unit and its transport as one but the context could be interpreted as for the unit count vs max or for all reserve functions. If you treat it as only for max number then the rolls for a unit and a transport are separate and a unit may be separated from its transport simply because 1 rolled to come in and the other did not, which would completely fit the reasoning of how a drop pod can arrive empty (as dumb as it seems). If a unit and its transport are considered to be 1 for all purposes (max unit count for reserves, rolls, etc) then the situations I described are possible.

pk1 wrote:
Not quite on the dangerous terrain check for disembarking from a vehicle that deep-struck. The models exiting the vehicle are simply moving through difficult terrain(pg 79).

Nope. The Deep Strike rules treat models disembarking from a Deep Striking transport as arriving by Deep Strike as well.

 insaniak wrote:

pk1 wrote:
Not quite on the dangerous terrain check for disembarking from a vehicle that deep-struck. The models exiting the vehicle are simply moving through difficult terrain(pg 79).

Nope. The Deep Strike rules treat models disembarking from a Deep Striking transport as arriving by Deep Strike as well.

I'm looking at the DS rules and I'm not seeing it in there. There is a bit of the opposite in the wording regarding assaults "This applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that have arrived by Deep Strike that turn.". While there are rules for a unit that disembarks from a vehicle that deep strikes, I can't find anything that says a unit that comes in via that method counts as having deep struck.

pk1 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

pk1 wrote:
Not quite on the dangerous terrain check for disembarking from a vehicle that deep-struck. The models exiting the vehicle are simply moving through difficult terrain(pg 79).

Nope. The Deep Strike rules treat models disembarking from a Deep Striking transport as arriving by Deep Strike as well.

I'm looking at the DS rules and I'm not seeing it in there. There is a bit of the opposite in the wording regarding assaults "This applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that have arrived by Deep Strike that turn.". While there are rules for a unit that disembarks from a vehicle that deep strikes, I can't find anything that says a unit that comes in via that method counts as having deep struck.

Check the 8th paragraph, 1st sentence on pg 36.

It states that a deep striking unit may move no further than a disembark move from a deep striking transport. So both the unit and transport are deep striking.

 Idolator wrote:

pk1 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

pk1 wrote:
Not quite on the dangerous terrain check for disembarking from a vehicle that deep-struck. The models exiting the vehicle are simply moving through difficult terrain(pg 79).

Nope. The Deep Strike rules treat models disembarking from a Deep Striking transport as arriving by Deep Strike as well.

I'm looking at the DS rules and I'm not seeing it in there. There is a bit of the opposite in the wording regarding assaults "This applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that have arrived by Deep Strike that turn.". While there are rules for a unit that disembarks from a vehicle that deep strikes, I can't find anything that says a unit that comes in via that method counts as having deep struck.

Check the 8th paragraph, 1st sentence on pg 36.

It states that a deep striking unit may move no further than a disembark move from a deep striking transport. So both the unit and transport are deep striking.

If you check above that paragraph you will see "Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."

Disembarking is a movement, not a deployment. If you look at the reserve rules, you must complete deployment of reserves before normal movement. An embarked squad is restricted to a disembarking action during movement. There is no allowance for disembarking during deployment.

And you will notice if you re-read what Idolator wrote "Deep striking units may not move further except to disembark. Which means the unit is deep striking.

 Happyjew wrote:
And you will notice if you re-read what Idolator wrote "Deep striking units may not move further except to disembark. Which means the unit is deep striking.

Right, and deep striking is a term of deployment. Once deployment is completed they are allowed by the rules to disembark during normal movement. No models from the embarked squad are in difficult/dangerous terrain during deployment so they do not take dangerous terrain tests. Once they disembark they treat difficult terrain as normal.

Deployment is a specific part of the movement phase, done before normal movements. If you want to play completely RAW, you would not place the disembarking squad until after all reserves have been placed on the table.

pk1 wrote:
Deployment is a specific part of the movement phase, done before normal movements.

Citation needed, I do not see this in the BRB.

pk1 wrote:
If you want to play completely RAW, you would not place the disembarking squad until after all reserves have been placed on the table.

This is incorrect. (With the exception of Black Templars) the drop pod rules require the unit to disembark immediately after the pod has landed.

pk1 wrote:
If you want to play completely RAW, you would not place the disembarking squad until after all reserves have been placed on the table.

"Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal." (p 69, C:SM)

The rule is pretty clear that the embarked unit must disembark immediately.

Don't get me wrong here. I understand where you're coming from. And, while I started out interpreting the rule the way others have, going back and rereading the relevant sections has convinced me that you are right overall.

While never explicitly defined, the term "deploy" is used consistently and specifically (outside of flavor text) to describe placing models or terrain features onto the game board to put them into play. On page 121 of the BRB, under the heading "Deploying Transport Vehicles", players are explicitly permitted to deploy units inside transports. Given that, the Drop Pod and the unit embarked upon it both deploy when the Drop Pod is placed on the table.

That's important. The last bullet under the "Arriving by Deep Strike" heading (p 36, BRB) states, "Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain." While both the Drop Pod and the unit embarked upon it are undoubtedly deploying via Deep Strike, there is no requirement that models or units embarked upon a transport interact with any kind of terrain in any way. Indeed, there's not even a mechanic for that. The models inside the Drop Pod are deploying, but they are not required to interact with difficult terrain at all, so it doesn't matter.

When the Drop Pod opens up, the passengers are required to "immediately disembark, as normal". The models are not deploying, at least not according to the way that the term is used throughout the rest of the BRB. They have already deployed (they have been placed on the game board and put into play) embarked upon the transport. What they are doing is disembarking from a transport, and deployment is never used in the BRB to describe model movement or the act of disembarking (a specific type of model movement).

TL;DR:

The rule says, "Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain." Models in a drop pod deploy embarked upon that drop pod, per the normal rules for deploying transports. Embarked models do not interact with terrain in any way. While never explicitly defined, the term "deploy" is never used (outside of flavor text) to describe disembarking or any other kind of movement. Whether there is a distinct deployment phase during a turn or not, deployment and movement are different things.

STILL TL;DR:

Can models that haven't already been deployed ever disembark from a transport or move in any other way?

Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Dangerous terrain tests are per model. During deployment of deep striking units there is only 1 model, the drop pod. Disembarking is not deployment and is done as part of normal movement.

pg 36
"Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."
"In the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking vehicle if they are in one."
Also keep in mind that there are rules for how to place models that are deploying via deep strike(the whole making a circle around the center guy thing). All the phrasing for what we are discussing revolves around the terms arriving from reserves or deploying. There is also no wording such as "until end of turn". They only talk about it affecting units deploying using deep strike.

pg 124
"When reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below. Then he picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal."
Reserve deployments are done before any other movement. Deep striking overrides the method of coming on the table but deployment is the specific act of placing models arriving from reserves on the table. An embarked unit is not placed during this phase.

pg 78
Last sentence under the Placing Disembarked models: "At the end of a unit's move, all models must be in unit coherency"
As additional confirmation that Disembarking counts as a move, not a deployment.

To play this out in a game setting
You start your turn, and roll for reserves. A drop pod and a squad of terminators arrive from deep strike reserves. You place and scatter the first drop pod, it ends up in difficult terrain, you roll a die for the 1 model that has deep struck into dangerous terrain. You can't disembark the squad yet because you still have to deploy the terminators. Once the termies are deployed you can then take normal movements to include disembarking the squad from the pod because you are no longer deploying units.

In your 'game setting' example you would be breaking the rules for Drop Pods as the embarked unit must IMMEDIATELY disembark.

pk1 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Dangerous terrain tests are per model. During deployment of deep striking units there is only 1 model, the drop pod. Disembarking is not deployment and is done as part of normal movement.

pg 36
"Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."
"In the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking vehicle if they are in one."
Also keep in mind that there are rules for how to place models that are deploying via deep strike(the whole making a circle around the center guy thing). All the phrasing for what we are discussing revolves around the terms arriving from reserves or deploying. There is also no wording such as "until end of turn". They only talk about it affecting units deploying using deep strike.

pg 124
"When reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below. Then he picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal."
Reserve deployments are done before any other movement. Deep striking overrides the method of coming on the table but deployment is the specific act of placing models arriving from reserves on the table. An embarked unit is not placed during this phase.

pg 78
Last sentence under the Placing Disembarked models: "At the end of a unit's move, all models must be in unit coherency"
As additional confirmation that Disembarking counts as a move, not a deployment.

To play this out in a game setting
You start your turn, and roll for reserves. A drop pod and a squad of terminators arrive from deep strike reserves. You place and scatter the first drop pod, it ends up in difficult terrain, you roll a die for the 1 model that has deep struck into dangerous terrain. You can't disembark the squad yet because you still have to deploy the terminators. Once the termies are deployed you can then take normal movements to include disembarking the squad from the pod because you are no longer deploying units.

In your scenario you have broken the rule that the unit in the pod must immediately disembark. It could be my misunderstanding, but immediately means before doing anything else.

But, for the sake of argument, let's look at your points in a different light.

Arriving from reserves is a form of deployment. You are forgetting the reserve rules.
A dedicated transport and its unit are considered a single unit for these purposes.

Now, this rule has caused a bit of a disagreement between me and others in regards to another aspect of this rule. There is no disagreement that an embarked unit and its transport are indeed treated as one unit until after deployment is made.
Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be hit, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

So, even using your argument, the unit does take dangerous terrain tests as long as the pod

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Okay. There's the problem.

"Deep Strike" is not a method of deployment. It is a special rule that provides instructions for a number of different things, such as how certain units are treated when calculating the number of units that may be kept in reserve, how those units arrive from reserves, how to deploy them when they do arrive, and what to do on the turn they have arrived. The special rule contains instructions for how to deploy units arriving by Deep Strike, but it is not solely concerned with deployment.

The Deep Strike special rule tells us how to deploy units that arrive by deep strike under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike" (p 36). The paragraph that tells us how to do this reads, "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:" and is followed by a bulleted list of instructions. This method of marking a list of sequential steps required to perform a specific action with bullets is used throughout the BRB, and there is no reason to treat this list any differently, so it is clearly a sequence of steps that must be performed to deploy a unit that is arriving by Deep Strike. Is there anything that tells me that I should override the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports on page 121? Is there a compelling reason that I shouldn't consider a unit that has followed these steps to be deployed?

The rules that come after the list of steps to deploy a unit are not part of that list. They fall under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike". "Arrival" and "deployment" are concepts that are used throughout the BRB in very different ways. Not all units that deploy arrive (i.e. units that are deployed before the game begins), and not all units that arrive deploy (i.e. Deep Striking units that arrive from reserves but cannot deploy, suffer a Deep Strike Mishap as a result, and are destroyed or placed in Ongoing Reserves).

Given that the concepts of "deployment" and "arrival" are related but distinct, I do not see the need to "default" to anything, let alone the assumption that the Deep Strike rule is a "method of deployment". (The rule modifies the Reserves special rule, which is concerned with "arrival": deployment and movement, not the rules for deployment themselves). What I do see are clear instructions for how to deploy units that have arrived by Deep Strike followed by clear rules explaining what units that arrive by Deep Strike are allowed and not allowed to do on the turn they arrive.

I see nothing that overrides the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports (p 121). I see nothing that requires a unit that has already (clearly and legally) deployed upon a transport to not only deploy again while disembarking (which would be unique as disembarking is movement and deployment and movement are distinct everywhere else in the BRB), but to deploy again while skipping the first two steps in what is obviously a sequence of instructions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Idolator wrote:
Arriving from reserves is a form of deployment. You are forgetting the reserve rules.
A dedicated transport and its unit are considered a single unit for these purposes.

You're leaving out what "these purposes" actually are:

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes." (Under "Preparing Reserves", p 124)

"These purposes" are when calculating how many units may be kept as Reserves and when figuring out which units are ignored when making those calculations. If the purpose is not one of those, a dedicated transport and its unit are not counted together as a single unit.

 Idolator wrote:
Now, this rule has caused a bit of a disagreement between me and others in regards to another aspect of this rule. There is no disagreement that an embarked unit and its transport are indeed treated as one unit until after deployment is made.

If there's no disagreement on that point, it's strange, as it's simply wrong according to the section I quoted above. An embarked unit and its transport are counted as a single unit for the purpose of reserve calculations, nothing else.

 Idolator wrote:
Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be hit, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

1.) Neither vehicles nor embarked models are "hit" by dangerous terrain. They must take dangerous terrain tests. If vehicles fail, they are immobilized. If non-vehicle models fail, they suffer a wound.
2.) Embarked models are considered to be inside a transport, but they are not part of the transport's unit. They have not joined it, they have embarked upon it, the rules for which can be found starting on page 78 under the heading "Embarking".
3.) Embarked models interact with other models and terrain according to the rules for models embarked on transports. Indeed, because they are placed off the board, there is no way for them to do so without explicit permission.
4.) The rules for what happens to passengers when a transport suffers damage can be found on page 80, under the heading, "Effects of Damage on Passengers".

 Idolator wrote:
So, even using your argument, the unit does take dangerous terrain tests as long as the pod

Models take terrain tests when they enter, leave, or move within difficult or dangerous terrain. Models embarked upon a transport are placed off the board, so they do not (and indeed cannot) move at all, unless it is to disembark, at which point they take various terrain tests as usual. If the vehicle is damaged in any way, the effects on passengers are as explained on page 80.

Youngblood13 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Okay. There's the problem.

"Deep Strike" is not a method of deployment. It is a special rule that provides instructions for a number of different things, such as how certain units are treated when calculating the number of units that may be kept in reserve, how those units arrive from reserves, how to deploy them when they do arrive, and what to do on the turn they have arrived. The special rule contains instructions for how to deploy units arriving by Deep Strike, but it is not solely concerned with deployment.

The Deep Strike special rule tells us how to deploy units that arrive by deep strike under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike" (p 36). The paragraph that tells us how to do this reads, "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:" and is followed by a bulleted list of instructions. This method of marking a list of sequential steps required to perform a specific action with bullets is used throughout the BRB, and there is no reason to treat this list any differently, so it is clearly a sequence of steps that must be performed to deploy a unit that is arriving by Deep Strike. Is there anything that tells me that I should override the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports on page 121? Is there a compelling reason that I shouldn't consider a unit that has followed these steps to be deployed?

The rules that come after the list of steps to deploy a unit are not part of that list. They fall under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike". "Arrival" and "deployment" are concepts that are used throughout the BRB in very different ways. Not all units that deploy arrive (i.e. units that are deployed before the game begins), and not all units that arrive deploy (i.e. Deep Striking units that arrive from reserves but cannot deploy, suffer a Deep Strike Mishap as a result, and are destroyed or placed in Ongoing Reserves).

Given that the concepts of "deployment" and "arrival" are related but distinct, I do not see the need to "default" to anything, let alone the assumption that the Deep Strike rule is a "method of deployment". (The rule modifies the Reserves special rule, which is concerned with "arrival": deployment and movement, not the rules for deployment themselves). What I do see are clear instructions for how to deploy units that have arrived by Deep Strike followed by clear rules explaining what units that arrive by Deep Strike are allowed and not allowed to do on the turn they arrive.

I see nothing that overrides the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports (p 121). I see nothing that requires a unit that has already (clearly and legally) deployed upon a transport to not only deploy again while disembarking (which would be unique as disem"barking is movement and deployment and movement are distinct everywhere else in the BRB), but to deploy again while skipping the first two steps in what is obviously a sequence of instructions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Idolator wrote:
Arriving from reserves is a form of deployment. You are forgetting the reserve rules.
A dedicated transport and its unit are considered a single unit for these purposes.

You're leaving out what "these purposes" actually are:

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes." (Under "Preparing Reserves", p 124)

"These purposes" are when calculating how many units may be kept as Reserves and when figuring out which units are ignored when making those calculations. If the purpose is not one of those, a dedicated transport and its unit are not counted together as a single unit.

 Idolator wrote:
Now, this rule has caused a bit of a disagreement between me and others in regards to another aspect of this rule. There is no disagreement that an embarked unit and its transport are indeed treated as one unit until after deployment is made.

If there's no disagreement on that point, it's strange, as it's simply wrong according to the section I quoted above. An embarked unit and its transport are counted as a single unit for the purpose of reserve calculations, nothing else.

 Idolator wrote:
Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be hit, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

1.) Neither vehicles nor embarked models are "hit" by dangerous terrain. They must take dangerous terrain tests. If vehicles fail, they are immobilized. If non-vehicle models fail, they suffer a wound.
2.) Embarked models are considered to be inside a transport, but they are not part of the transport's unit. They have not joined it, they have embarked upon it, the rules for which can be found starting on page 78 under the heading "Embarking".
3.) Embarked models interact with other models and terrain according to the rules for models embarked on transports. Indeed, because they are placed off the board, there is no way for them to do so without explicit permission.
4.) The rules for what happens to passengers when a transport suffers damage can be found on page 80, under the heading, "Effects of Damage on Passengers".

 Idolator wrote:
So, even using your argument, the unit does take dangerous terrain tests as long as the pod

Models take terrain tests when they enter, leave, or move within difficult or dangerous terrain. Models embarked upon a transport are placed off the board, so they do not (and indeed cannot) move at all, unless it is to disembark, at which point they take various terrain tests as usual. If the vehicle is damaged in any way, the effects on passengers are as explained on page 80.

Arrive and deploy are synonymous. The 5th paragraph, second column of pg 124 states. "When reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units and deploys it...." So arriving from reserves is deployment.

The rules for interceptor allow for the targeting of units that disembark from from a drop pod,because they are entering play from reserves. How did they enter play from reserves??? Via deep strike, because disembarking from a vehicle is not considered entering from reserve.

Drop pods are peculiar in many respects. The treating of the units embarked as arriving just as the vehicle did is one of those peculiarities.

You honestly have a problem with me using the word term "hit by the terrain", I was using a colloquial term to establish that it cuased an issue, as in the case, "I was struck by love" or "I was hit with a law suit". But if colloquialisms aren't your cup of tea, how about this:

A Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be confounded, impacted, discombobulated, affected, influenced, harmed, hurt, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

I hope that you could find a word that meets your approval, as they are semantically the same for game purposes.

 Idolator wrote:
Arrive and deploy are synonymous. The 5th paragraph, second column of pg 124 states. "When reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units and deploys it...." So arriving from reserves is deployment.

"When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below."

The part that you're eliding is important. In this case, deployment is "moving it onto the table as described below". In other cases (such as during deployment before the beginning of the game) it is clearly not movement. In still other cases (such as a unit that suffers a Deep Strike Mishap because it can't deploy and is destroyed or is placed into Ongoing Reserves), a unit may arrive without being deployed at all. Given those cases (and others), I see no reason to treat "arrival" and "deployment" as being synonymous.

 Idolator wrote:
The rules for interceptor allow for the targeting of units that disembark from from a drop pod,because they are entering play from reserves. How did they enter play from reserves??? Via deep strike, because disembarking from a vehicle is not considered entering from reserve.

I don't disagree with the end result (that the Interceptor special rule allows the targeting of units that disembark from a Drop Pod), but I get there in a different, way. The Interceptor rule tells me that weapons with the Interceptor rule may be fired in a certain way at a unit that has "arrived from reserves". The rules for Deep Strike tell me that disembarking from a transport is part of the process of arriving by Deep Strike, and since the disembarking unit is arriving from Reserves, it's clear that it may be targeted.

 Idolator wrote:
Drop pods are peculiar in many respects. The treating of the units embarked as arriving just as the vehicle did is one of those peculiarities.

There's nothing peculiar about that particular aspect of Drop Pods. It's spelled out clearly in the rules.

 Idolator wrote:
You honestly have a problem with me using the word term "hit by the terrain", I was using a colloquial term to establish that it cuased an issue, as in the case, "I was struck by love" or "I was hit with a law suit".

I don't have a problem with it. I've lurked on YMDC enough to know that a common mistake that people make is treating wounds received as a result of things like Gets Hot or being required to make difficult terrain tests as "hits". Hits are distinct. Since I don't know the terminology specific to your gaming group, I am not a mind reader, and YMDC is a forum for discussing the wording of rules, I think it's pretty reasonable to point out the distinction and pretty unreasonable to take me to task for not knowing what you and your buddies say to each other.

 Idolator wrote:
A Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be confounded, impacted, discombobulated, affected, influenced, harmed, hurt, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit. It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

It would be much simpler to say, "Deep striking a pod onto difficult terrain with models inside would impact the embarked unit according to the usual rules for transports that sustain damage."

Unfortunately, that would completely contradict what you're saying. The only damage results a vehicle can suffer by failing a dangerous terrain test are Immobilised and (if an Immobilised result strips away its final hull point) Wrecked. Immobilised has no effect on passengers, and Wrecked forces the passengers to disembark with special restrictions. The only time a model in a transport that fails a dangerous terrain test receives any ill effect at all "because it is considered to be physically inside the pod" is when it is forced to disembark but cannot do so. But when that happens, if there was any confusion at all, it's absolutely clear that the disembarking models are not "part of the [transport's] unit".

 Idolator wrote:
I hope that you could find a word that meets your approval, as they are semantically the same for game purposes.

Let's be honest here. This isn't about whether or not I approve. It's about taking one part of my response and blowing it up in order to "win" by suggesting that I am unreasonable, since the argument you were making and the evidence you provided to support it were incorrect. In a discussion of rules and their wording, it's reasonable to attempt to introduce clarity concerning specific game concepts (like the difference between hits and wounds suffered from other sources). I don't know you, I don't know your friends or the terminology they use, and I am not able to read your mind. It's unreasonable and more than a little unfair to try to paint me as a bad guy because of that. I am making an effort to not come across as unintentionally hostile, condescending, or snarky. If I do, I apologize for that. But could you please avoid trying to take these little shots at me and instead discuss the rules?

 Idolator wrote:

Youngblood13 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Okay. There's the problem.

"Deep Strike" is not a method of deployment. It is a special rule that provides instructions for a number of different things, such as how certain units are treated when calculating the number of units that may be kept in reserve, how those units arrive from reserves, how to deploy them when they do arrive, and what to do on the turn they have arrived. The special rule contains instructions for how to deploy units arriving by Deep Strike, but it is not solely concerned with deployment.

The Deep Strike special rule tells us how to deploy units that arrive by deep strike under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike" (p 36). The paragraph that tells us how to do this reads, "Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:" and is followed by a bulleted list of instructions. This method of marking a list of sequential steps required to perform a specific action with bullets is used throughout the BRB, and there is no reason to treat this list any differently, so it is clearly a sequence of steps that must be performed to deploy a unit that is arriving by Deep Strike. Is there anything that tells me that I should override the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports on page 121? Is there a compelling reason that I shouldn't consider a unit that has followed these steps to be deployed?

The rules that come after the list of steps to deploy a unit are not part of that list. They fall under the subheading "Arriving By Deep Strike". "Arrival" and "deployment" are concepts that are used throughout the BRB in very different ways. Not all units that deploy arrive (i.e. units that are deployed before the game begins), and not all units that arrive deploy (i.e. Deep Striking units that arrive from reserves but cannot deploy, suffer a Deep Strike Mishap as a result, and are destroyed or placed in Ongoing Reserves).

Given that the concepts of "deployment" and "arrival" are related but distinct, I do not see the need to "default" to anything, let alone the assumption that the Deep Strike rule is a "method of deployment". (The rule modifies the Reserves special rule, which is concerned with "arrival": deployment and movement, not the rules for deployment themselves). What I do see are clear instructions for how to deploy units that have arrived by Deep Strike followed by clear rules explaining what units that arrive by Deep Strike are allowed and not allowed to do on the turn they arrive.

I see nothing that overrides the rules for deploying units embarked upon transports (p 121). I see nothing that requires a unit that has already (clearly and legally) deployed upon a transport to not only deploy again while disembarking (which would be unique as disem"barking is movement and deployment and movement are distinct everywhere else in the BRB), but to deploy again while skipping the first two steps in what is obviously a sequence of instructions.


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 Idolator wrote:
Arriving from reserves is a form of deployment. You are forgetting the reserve rules.
A dedicated transport and its unit are considered a single unit for these purposes.

You're leaving out what "these purposes" actually are:

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes." (Under "Preparing Reserves", p 124)

"These purposes" are when calculating how many units may be kept as Reserves and when figuring out which units are ignored when making those calculations. If the purpose is not one of those, a dedicated transport and its unit are not counted together as a single unit.

 Idolator wrote:
Now, this rule has caused a bit of a disagreement between me and others in regards to another aspect of this rule. There is no disagreement that an embarked unit and its transport are indeed treated as one unit until after deployment is made.

If there's no disagreement on that point, it's strange, as it's simply wrong according to the section I quoted above. An embarked unit and its transport are counted as a single unit for the purpose of reserve calculations, nothing else.

 Idolator wrote:
Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be hit, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

1.) Neither vehicles nor embarked models are "hit" by dangerous terrain. They must take dangerous terrain tests. If vehicles fail, they are immobilized. If non-vehicle models fail, they suffer a wound.
2.) Embarked models are considered to be inside a transport, but they are not part of the transport's unit. They have not joined it, they have embarked upon it, the rules for which can be found starting on page 78 under the heading "Embarking".
3.) Embarked models interact with other models and terrain according to the rules for models embarked on transports. Indeed, because they are placed off the board, there is no way for them to do so without explicit permission.
4.) The rules for what happens to passengers when a transport suffers damage can be found on page 80, under the heading, "Effects of Damage on Passengers".

 Idolator wrote:
So, even using your argument, the unit does take dangerous terrain tests as long as the pod

Models take terrain tests when they enter, leave, or move within difficult or dangerous terrain. Models embarked upon a transport are placed off the board, so they do not (and indeed cannot) move at all, unless it is to disembark, at which point they take various terrain tests as usual. If the vehicle is damaged in any way, the effects on passengers are as explained on page 80.

Arrive and deploy are synonymous. The 5th paragraph, second column of pg 124 states. "When reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units and deploys it...." So arriving from reserves is deployment.

The rules for interceptor allow for the targeting of units that disembark from from a drop pod,because they are entering play from reserves. How did they enter play from reserves??? Via deep strike, because disembarking from a vehicle is not considered entering from reserve.

Drop pods are peculiar in many respects. The treating of the units embarked as arriving just as the vehicle did is one of those peculiarities.

You honestly have a problem with me using the word term "hit by the terrain", I was using a colloquial term to establish that it cuased an issue, as in the case, "I was struck by love" or "I was hit with a law suit". But if colloquialisms aren't your cup of tea, how about this:

A Deep striking the pod onto difficult terrain, with units inside, would cause all of the embarked models to also be confounded, impacted, discombobulated, affected, influenced, harmed, hurt, as they are considered to be physically inside the pod and part of the pods unit.
It's one of the few instances where models, other than vehicles are part of a unit with a vehicle.

I hope that you could find a word that meets your approval, as they are semantically the same for game purposes.

The interceptor rule states "At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve within its range and line of sight."

The squad arrived from reserves, disembarking doesn't change that. The reason they don't check for dangerous terrain is because they did not deploy into terrain, they moved into it.

Also, don't try to add real life logic to sort out the game rules. The game has specific rules and it doesn't matter if they line up with real life or not. If the rules state that the embarked unit is to also be confounded, impacted, discombobulated, etc. then it will say it somewhere. In real life that would make sense. This is a tabletop game and it boils most aspects of life and death into a 6-sided die roll. You have to expect some simplifications or you might need to roll several thousand more dice per movement phase per squad....

Youngblood13 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Deep Strike is a method of deployment.

If a unit that arrives in a transport and disembarks is considered to be Deep Striking (which it is, as already pointed out), then it its by default 'deploying by Deep Strike'... Because that's what a Deep Strike is .

Okay. There's the problem.

"Deep Strike" is not a method of deployment. It is a special rule that provides instructions for a number of different things, such as how certain units are treated when calculating the number of units that may be kept in reserve, how those units arrive from reserves, how to deploy them when they do arrive, and what to do on the turn they have arrived. The special rule contains instructions for how to deploy units arriving by Deep Strike, but it is not solely concerned with deployment.

Okay. Here's the problem. Pg. 36 Arriving by Deep Strike. first sentence.
Roll for the arrival of all deep stikeking units as specified in the rules for reserves and then DEPLOY them as follows.

The rules for deep strike are indeed a type of deployment.

Last bullet point same section ; Models deploying via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.

So we can put that baby to bed right there.

Deep striking is deployment.


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 Idolator wrote:
Now, this rule has caused a bit of a disagreement between me and others in regards to another aspect of this rule. There is no disagreement that an embarked unit and its transport are indeed treated as one unit until after deployment is made.

If there's no disagreement on that point, it's strange, as it's simply wrong according to the section I quoted above. An embarked unit and its transport are counted as a single unit for the purpose of reserve calculations, nothing else.

 Idolator wrote:
Okay. Here's the problem. Pg. 36 Arriving by Deep Strike. first sentence.
Roll for the arrival of all deep stikeking units as specified in the rules for reserves and then DEPLOY them as follows.

The rules for deep strike are indeed a type of deployment.

Last bullet point same section ; Models deploying via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.

So we can put that baby to bed right there.

Deep striking is deployment.

You seem to like the whole selective quoting thing.

What I actually wrote was:

"'Deep Strike is not a method of deployment. It is a special rule that provides instructions for a number of different things, such as how certain units are treated when calculating the number of units that may be kept in reserve, how those units arrive from reserves, [color=red]how to deploy them when they do arrive[/red], and what to do on the turn they have arrived. [color=red]The special rule contains instructions for how to deploy units arriving by Deep Strike, but it is not solely concerned with deployment.[/red]"

Then, after that, I built a case for my position.

My point was, and remains, that the Deep Strike special rule contains a clearly identified sequence of rules for deployment, but also contains other rules for other aspects of play. This was in response to Insaniak's argument that, since Deep Strike is a method of deployment, I should not only default to the specific rules for deploying a unit by Deep Strike (even when an already deployed unit is disembarking from a Drop Pod that has also already been deployed) but that I should ignore all of the steps except the last one.

You've put nothing to bed.

 Idolator wrote:
Odd, you agree that they are a counted as a single unit while in reserves, but not that they are considered a single unit while in reserve before they are deployed. I have a hard time comprehending this logic.

Actually, I don't agree that dedicated transports and their units are counted as a single unit while in Reserves, and I never said that I do. I pointed out that the rules say that dedicated transports and their units are counted as a single unit for the purposes of figuring out how many units may be kept in Reserves and which units may be ignored for the purposes of those calculations.

There are cases in which this is relevant. For example, a Drop Pod may suffer a Deep Strike Mishap and be destroyed along with the unit it is carrying. While the Drop Pod has never actually deployed (indeed, a Deep Strike Mishap is triggered when a unit can't deploy), it has still been destroyed, and would count as two units for the purpose of determining points in certain mission types. Similarly, a Drop Pod carrying a unit may be Delayed, going into Ongoing Reserves because it can't be deployed. If the game ends while the Drop Pod is in Ongoing Reserves, it would count as two units for the purpose of determining points in certain mission types even though 1.) it hasn't been deployed and 2.) it is in Reserves.

On top of that, I have not played every mission type in every supplement, nor have I seen every special rule for everything in every army. While the number of units that are actually in Reserves has been irrelevant in every game I have ever played, it doesn't mean that it is always irrelevant. Knowing what the rule actually says (dedicated transports and their units are counted as a unit for two very specific purposes) may very well be important.

 Idolator wrote:
It is true that movement is not always deployment nor is deployment always movement, except in the case of reserves. Where movement is the only way to deploy units deploying from reserve.

Deep Striking units arrive from reserves but do not move onto the board. When Guardsman Marbo becomes available from Reserves, he neither Deep Strikes nor moves onto the board, he is simply placed onto it. In addition, according to the Reserves special rule itself, a unit that is immobilized so that it can't complete its move onto the board is placed onto it in a specific fashion. In addition, there are certainly other rules I have not come across or don't remember off the top of my head. But what I have seen is enough to make it clear that movement is not the only way to deploy units arriving from Reserves.

 Idolator wrote:
Perhaps a look at the word peculiar would be in order.

...

So peculiar, in all of it's meanings fits. So yes I did mean to use the word peculiar.

I never said that you didn't mean to use the word peculiar. I simply disagreed with your assessment.

 Idolator wrote:
You began the semantic argument, by pointing out that "hit" was an incorrect usage of the term. You claim that the term impact would meet with your approval.

I claimed no such thing. I said that pointing the relevant rule would be simpler. This isn't about my approval.

And I didn't begin any "semantic argument". I simply pointed out that wounds obtained as a result of dangerous terrain tests aren't hits. I've seen people make that mistake before. As I've already said, I don't know you, I don't know the way you and your buddies talk about things, and I'm not a mind reader. You can accept that I was simply clarifying things, as I have already said, or you can continue to act as though I was picking a fight with you.

 Idolator wrote:
FYI Impact and Hit are synonymous.

Yes, but "hit" is a specific game concept that is not infrequently confused with damage sustained through means other than combat, whereas "impact" is not. "Impact" is also synonymous with "effect", and I think that it's clear from the context how I was using it.

 Idolator wrote:
I was not quoting the rules so I can use whatever term that I wish. No mind reading skills are needed to understand, just a working vocabulary.

You directly stated that I used a word incorrectly. It was not so and I take great offense to being corrected when no correction is warranted. I also defend my usage of language just as stringently as I do my argument.

You're blowing this way out of proportion. Seriously. I wasn't all, "RAH! YOU USED A WORD INCORRECTLY YOU FOOL!" I noted that damage sustained as a result of a failed dangerous terrain test is not a "hit" and clarified things because, as I have already said, it's a mistake I have seen a number of times before, I do not know you, I do not know the terms you and your buddies throw around, and I am not a mind reader. You can accept that explanation and the apology that I offered (which I will repeat again: "I am making an effort to not come across as unintentionally hostile, condescending, or snarky. If I do, I apologize for that.") or you can continue to take "great offense" and rage because I do not know the specific terminology that you and your buddies use. It's up to you.

Our group typically plays it as the Pod and the embarked unit both take dangerous terrain tests whenever landing/disembarking in area terrain.

The part that gets me is:

"In the Movernent phase during which they arrive, deep
striking units may not move any further, other than to
disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they
are in one."

To me, that tells us that the unit disembarking is also considered as being deployed via deep strike. Why else would it state that the unit inside is a Deep Striking Unit?

My other question though, is if they are to be considered a deep striking unit, wouldn't you have to follow the rules for deploying via deep strike? (one model surrounded by a circle of the other models).

This is starting to hurt my brain......

No, because while you're a Deep Striking unit, you're simply disembarking from a transport.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
To me, that tells us that the unit disembarking is also considered as being deployed via deep strike. Why else would it state that the unit inside is a Deep Striking Unit?

My other question though, is if they are to be considered a deep striking unit, wouldn't you have to follow the rules for deploying via deep strike? (one model surrounded by a circle of the other models).

There are several possible reasons. For example, some special rules can't be used by Deep Striking units, or on the turn a Deep Striking unit arrives. I think there are things that effect Deep Striking units in Planetstrike. Making it clear that a unit that does not have the Deep Strike special rule is considered to be a Deep Striking unit may be relevant in a number of situations.

For the most part, the issue boils down to when a unit can be considered to be no longer "deploying", but "deployed". The rules for deploying transports tell us that units may be deployed embarked upon transports (see the "Deploying Transports" p 121), and that's clearly what's happening here. The Drop Pod is deploying (via Deep Strike) and the unit embarked upon it is also deploying. Embarked units cannot take terrain tests of any sort, so a transported unit wouldn't be effected while deploying.

The term "deploy" is used consistently throughout the BRB to mean, basically, place on the table and into play. My position is that once the Drop Pod has deployed (it has followed the instructions for deploying and is placed on the table and into play) according to the rules for "Deploying Transports" the embarked unit has also deployed (it is placed on the table and into play). Of course, transported units are actually off the table and assumed to be inside a transport, which is why we would need the special permission that the rules for "Deploying Transports" gives us.

So the question is how long a unit is considered to be "deploying" and at what point it can be considered to be "deployed"? My position is that the embarked unit deploys with the transport, and the rules that follow govern what to do after the unit has deployed. This is consistent with the use of the term "deploy" in the rest of the BRB. The opposing position doesn't give us an expiration date.