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I won't deny some former doctrines are decently represented, however I think there's been some oversimplification. Chem Inhalers for example, Commissars works as a replacement if you're only looking at Command Squads and Infantry Squads, and not Heavy Weapons Squads, Special Weapon Squads, Veteran Squads, etc, and a Commissar is far more expensive than the Chem Inhaler upgrade was.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
As someone who loves whishlisting I've got to agree with this. Stormtroopers are a prime example; if you can't get them to work you're doing it wrong.

Hrm, or not. They can work semi-consistently well as a suicide double-melta unit, which isn't really what they should be about. Against any similarly equipped/costed unit, where that AP3 they pay so much for gets put into play, they end up needing to get the first round of fire off and be in very specific range bands (and generally require a target in the open) to gain any sort of superiority, or even just parity in many instances (such as against...Tac marines, that now cost much less) and are notably at a disadvantage at just about all other ranges. Even when you do get them to work, quite often you'd have been better off with a cheaper and/or likely much longer ranged unit. There's a reason Stormtroopers haven't been seen in competitive events largely in the last 4 years. Hell, I can't even remember the last time I saw them used by someone other than myself personally. You'll see them used in DKoK Assault Brigades where they're immune to 25% morale tests, sport WS4, and are 12ppm Troops instead of 16ppm Elites, but that's about it in most cases outside the occasional double-melta suicide unit.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
...I'd pay for it.

Then just get the FW Elysian list where you pay a few extra points on each squad for the ability to deep strike (and take dedicated transport Valkyries) but give up all of the tanks. That's the fair and fluffy way to do a drop troops army.

Definitely one option, and my heavy support slots are empty when I take drop troops-style lists anyway, but I'd prefer a way to run it in the main Codex. That takes care of the occasional cranky person who won't play against Forgeworld and lets me bring ratlings. The only thing better than a space hobbit sniper is a space hobbit sniper with a future parachute.

Also, breacher charges replacing demolition charges makes me sad.

I want my Warrior Weapons back!

Hopefully Vets stay as Troops and if the rumors can be believed, get back the option to take pistol+ccw. Add-in the same option for Penal Legions and I can finally play my Feral World IG allies to my Daemons.

Adeptus arbites would be cool, but only if they get to take boltguns.

 Ailaros wrote:

Polonius wrote:Well, old book stromtroopers were just guardsmen with AP5, BS4, and 4+.

Practically speaking, it's the exact same as what the old doctrine was. It just doesn't feel as special because it's an upgrade for vets, rather than an upgrade for the whole army.

When we say we want doctrines, we don't mean the exact version from years ago. A better, more refined version that allows for tradeoffs that let you better represent the different regiments. ie. Tanith first - no melta, plasma or lascannon is easy to represent, but such a hit to your effectiveness - relying on the worse missile launchers - should be made up in some way, such as armywide +1BS, better snper units, or 2 MLs per squad, whatever.

 Yonan wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Polonius wrote:Well, old book stromtroopers were just guardsmen with AP5, BS4, and 4+.

Practically speaking, it's the exact same as what the old doctrine was. It just doesn't feel as special because it's an upgrade for vets, rather than an upgrade for the whole army.

When we say we want doctrines, we don't mean the exact version from years ago. A better, more refined version that allows for tradeoffs that let you better represent the different regiments. ie. Tanith first - no melta, plasma or lascannon is easy to represent, but such a hit to your effectiveness - relying on the worse missile launchers - should be made up in some way, such as armywide +1BS, better snper units, or 2 MLs per squad, whatever.

I would agree with this, something to make the regiments different from each other.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Polonius wrote:Well, old book stromtroopers were just guardsmen with AP5, BS4, and 4+.

Practically speaking, it's the exact same as what the old doctrine was. It just doesn't feel as special because it's an upgrade for vets, rather than an upgrade for the whole army.

When we say we want doctrines, we don't mean the exact version from years ago. A better, more refined version that allows for tradeoffs that let you better represent the different regiments. ie. Tanith first - no melta, plasma or lascannon is easy to represent, but such a hit to your effectiveness - relying on the worse missile launchers - should be made up in some way, such as armywide +1BS, better snper units, or 2 MLs per squad, whatever.

I would agree with this, something to make the regiments different from each other.

Amen Brother! Preach da Gospel! That is exactly what I meant about IG doctrines. Only a power-mongering munchkin wants to get something added to the army lists for nothing. I like the idea of tradeoffs.

It is my belief that doctrines should just be there to provide for fluff for the various types of IG regiments.

SYKOJAK wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Polonius wrote:Well, old book stromtroopers were just guardsmen with AP5, BS4, and 4+.

Practically speaking, it's the exact same as what the old doctrine was. It just doesn't feel as special because it's an upgrade for vets, rather than an upgrade for the whole army.

When we say we want doctrines, we don't mean the exact version from years ago. A better, more refined version that allows for tradeoffs that let you better represent the different regiments. ie. Tanith first - no melta, plasma or lascannon is easy to represent, but such a hit to your effectiveness - relying on the worse missile launchers - should be made up in some way, such as armywide +1BS, better snper units, or 2 MLs per squad, whatever.

I would agree with this, something to make the regiments different from each other.

Amen Brother! Preach da Gospel! That is exactly what I meant about IG doctrines. Only a power-mongering munchkin wants to get something added to the army lists for nothing. I like the idea of tradeoffs.

It is my belief that doctrines should just be there to provide for fluff for the various types of IG regiments.

Same. I'm a big fan of the idea of certain units being locked for particular doctrines. Want drop troops? Cool, you won't be bringing those Russes. Armored company, you say? No need for those squishy ratlings, and ogryns won't go near the tanks. And so on and so forth...

But you can already make regiments different than each other. You don't have to have commissars in your catachan list. You don't have to take infantry platoons in your vostroyan list. You don't have to take SitNW conscripts with armies that aren't valhallan.

You can pretty much make any of the old regiments with the current codex. It's just up to you to make them in the way they're meant to be made, rather than getting lazy or cheaty and taking options you shouldn't. But that's your fault, now the codex's.

 Ailaros wrote:
But you can already make regiments different than each other. You don't have to have commissars in your catachan list. You don't have to take infantry platoons in your vostroyan list. You don't have to take SitNW conscripts with armies that aren't valhallan.

You can pretty much make any of the old regiments with the current codex. It's just up to you to make them in the way they're meant to be made, rather than getting lazy or cheaty and taking options you shouldn't. But that's your fault, now the codex's.

So... you didn't read what I said and just reiterated your point? Yes it's easy to do that. The codexes fault is that it doesn't give you something to make up for the loss in effectiveness which is where "doctrines" come in. You make a sacrifice in one area to get an improvement in another. The result is you can play a fluffy regiment that is still competitive. There's no question that you can choose to play a fluffy list currently, just that it's not competitive and certainly not a TAC list. I assume you're not suggesting infantry with flamers, snipers and missile launchers with no air or armour (ie. a fluffy Tanith list) is a competitive TAC IG list?

My wish is simple. Enginseer as IC.

1) Baneblades

2)Deep striking Baneblades

3)Seriously idc make it take 3 HS slots, cost 1000 points just get it in there and Ill give you 140 dollars!

I'd like it if heavy weapons teams could take plasma cannons.

I would like to see IG models with knee pads. Have you ever gone to war without kneepads? It's awful. Always wear your kneepads when conducting war.

And some military aspects that make it easier for me to relate. If I can't have a laser rifle, no one can. NO ONE.

I thought that was just Juves in Mega City One

HK91 wrote:
1) Baneblades

2)Deep striking Baneblades

3)Seriously idc make it take 3 HS slots, cost 1000 points just get it in there and Ill give you 140 dollars!

Play spear head!

I'd like my $140 now, cash, small bills or coin.

Models:
- New Leman Russ
- New Chimeria

Rules:
- Storm Troopers improved
- 2x assault weapons in normal squads as an option

 Peregrine wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
...I'd pay for it.

Then just get the FW Elysian list where you pay a few extra points on each squad for the ability to deep strike (and take dedicated transport Valkyries) but give up all of the tanks. That's the fair and fluffy way to do a drop troops army.

That's what I do... You tend to lose more often since you have no pie plates of destruction (Elysians lost demo charges...) but it is a fun game... Since they also had Vultures moved to FA ( incorrectly I think) I currently run with no heavy choices but I am working on it.

For normal IG armies I think IG should get Individual (No Squadron) Vultures as a Heavy choice and no Squadrons for Vendettas which should have their points increased. I suspect they are going to get Inquisitorial Command options with one of the dedicated transports being an Valkyrie.

MOAR TANKS. I don't want to have a single unit of infantry! I'm talking Treads over boots, AV over T!

A "Regimental Doctrine" for the Tallarn that allows three times as much plasma to be taken on anything that allows. I don't care how you do it, just do it.