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I've been play testing him in the new Codex, and he has done (so far) much better than I've expected. I started this thread to share what I've found and was curious if anyone else has been trying him out, and to what effect? Here's what I've found so far:

1. His Sun's Brilliance ability is absolutely fantastic. I have dropped him right in the middle of gunlines several times, in order to maximize the number of units having to take the blind test, and it has paid off in spades. I thought he'd be a sacrifice, but when you're blind you can't hit him, and when you can't hit him you can't wound him, and then he has a 2+/4++. This has allowed me to maneuver squishy units safely across enemy gunlines. Nothing will tick an opponent of more than blinding his tanks and then chucking a haywire grenade at it to boot.
2. Piggy-backing on #1: no-scatter deepstrike cannot be understated, particularly when combined with an awesome ability like Sun's Brilliance.
3. His sword, the Shining Blade, has allowed me to keep him alive in combats against far stronger cc opponents due to its blinding ability. If his deep strike didn't blind the opponent, then the Blade likely will.
4. Once in cc, he's not stuck there thanks to Hit and Run. DS in, blind people, likely get charged by something next turn; hit and run out, then Skyleap away and do it again the following turn. Ridiculous.
5. There's always a downside, and so far the only thing that isn't great about him is that the Shining Blade is AP3, and it seems like every character he ends up in combat against has a 2+. Oh well, hit and run, and jump outta there I guess.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are;
1) Blind does not affect vehicles and requires an I test
2) No scatter DS is awesome, no arguement
3) No arguement, cool rule
4) You need to hit and run on your opponent's assault phase to be free during your phase
5) AP 3 is bad on such an expensive character

I like baharroth. His rules feel right for his character and he has some nice uses. He is however a good 20 pts overpriced for what he brings. If you know you will face an army not composed of vehicles or Tau suits he is awesome. If not you wasted a lot of points for a fancy DS CC character.

Baharroth also offers some extra things to hawks you failed to mention. One is BS7 for your grenade pack. Since you get to pick the model that uses it and that model can still shoot in the shooting phase, Baharroth is the obvious choice. His warlord trait is also nice as it helps to spread out the hawks and put himself in the way of the most dangerous guns.

If your going to bother with him, always take an exarch with a sunrifle as well, to blind anything that his suns brillance failed to. As I read it, the suns brillance triggers before you have to nominate a target with the grenade pack, so you can choose to shoot the hawks at the unblinded target(with another chance to blind anything that survives).

Against a mech list yes, Baharroth and hawks lose a lot of those oomph when they drop, but you can always pop a transport or 2 early, or drop them somewhere and hide, then skyleap away. If you are desperate, drop in behind armor 10, use the grenade pack, have baharroth shoot his S5 shots and have the exarch throw a haywire grenade. Not something you want to do, but an option for last ditch effort.

 ansacs wrote:
My thoughts are;
1) Blind does not affect vehicles and requires an I test
2) No scatter DS is awesome, no arguement
3) No arguement, cool rule
4) You need to hit and run on your opponent's assault phase to be free during your phase
5) AP 3 is bad on such an expensive character

I like baharroth. His rules feel right for his character and he has some nice uses. He is however a good 20 pts overpriced for what he brings. If you know you will face an army not composed of vehicles or Tau suits he is awesome. If not you wasted a lot of points for a fancy DS CC character.

I thought vehicles would have to take the blind test at Initiative 1 after the BRB FAQ? In the BRB itself it said models w/o an initiative fail automatically.

@ Dr Serling, the BS7 is great for his grende pack, I've just found that the grenade pack has been less of a priority due to it being small blast, so I usually throw a haywire at a nearby tank instead. Also, I don't run Baharroth with a unit of Hawks, I keep him separate because I know I need to throw him into the jaws of the enemy, and I don't necessarily want to sacrifice the Hawks in case they all pass their blind tests. And I agree completely with you on the Exarch, that is exactly how I run my squad: 6 man (for the large blast) with a Sunrifle Exarch.

I really like Barroth.

He's perfect for backfield annoyance. Imagine Tau and their paultry I2... Blind would devastate them.

He excels at chasing down xenos squads (Tau allied with something seems to be the meta anymore with those who are 'competitively' minded). Imagine he drops in, blinds, drops a grenade pack, throws a haywire grenade, and then either assaults some backfield unit (Tau pathfinders) or haywire grenades another target.

Always hit and run on your opponent's turn. Heck, it sounds really fun if nothing else.

Half of tau have blacksun filters (including riptides, of course), which just so happen to both negate nightfighting and blinding (how the feth they do both idk). Necrons are the main target since they are I2 with no blind resistance.

Baharroth would have been great with a sunrifle to force another blind check, but as he is he is OK. My favorite tactic is dropping a unit of warp spiders in, then dropping him within 2" of the squad. He blinds infantry, they destroy a vehicle, then he can absorb some of the incoming fire the next turn. The unit can still battle focus and the loss of warp jump isnt as bad as its made out to be (its pretty unreliably anyways, especially on DS). If you drop him alone i have fount he still dies too easily even with blind.

In melee he needed S5 or AP2. Either one would have made him a solid choice. S4 AP3 for 200 points is pretty pathetic.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I thought vehicles would have to take the blind test at Initiative 1 after the BRB FAQ? In the BRB itself it said models w/o an initiative fail automatically.

BRB FAQ:

Page 34 – Special Rules, Blind
Add “Furthermore, any model that does not have an Initiative characteristic (for example non-walker Vehicles, Fortifications etc) are unaffected by this special rule.”...after the last sentence.

 Quanar wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I thought vehicles would have to take the blind test at Initiative 1 after the BRB FAQ? In the BRB itself it said models w/o an initiative fail automatically.

BRB FAQ:

Page 34 – Special Rules, Blind
Add “Furthermore, any model that does not have an Initiative characteristic (for example non-walker Vehicles, Fortifications etc) are unaffected by this special rule.”...after the last sentence.

Quanar, can you tell me which page of the FAQ that quote is from? I haven't been able to find it, and it's driving me nuts.

pg 2

Bah, right at the top. Thanks. Well that certainly puts a dent in how I'd LIKE to play Baharroth, but I guess it just means I'll have to focus on blinding the infantry and not the tanks themselves.

Would it be possible to put Baharroth in reserve seperately from a squad of Swooping Hawks, deep strike the hawks and land a blast, then deep strike Baharroth within 2" and get another blast - then the blind rule?

You'd join them together at the end of the movement phase, and get an extra blast out of it. Of course, it relies on your reserves coming in at the same time.

I use Baharroth to great effect with a DE Beast pack. Fearless and Hit & Run are very effective on them. Having the option of deep striking for the blind effect is great as well.

Personally, I would use Baharroth as I would use a Mantle Autarch. A disruption unit sent somewhere to mess up the opponent's plans, while I do my own thing with the rest of my list that is in synergy with itself. I use my Hawks the same way already, he'd just be doing it more in style.

195 points is not that much, when you consider that the Mantle Autarch with the Shard is 183. He might be better in challenges, but he's also void of any special rules, of which Baharroth has many.

He would require a certain list to work well in, I imagine. You need a list that can take advantage of his disruption tactics. So not a good fit into Serpent spam or ADL camping lists.

I am considering testing out Baharroth to lead a second Beast Pack in my list, with the Baron, of course, leading the first. His 2+/4++, along with Eternal Warrior, makes him a pretty decent wound sponge, and he gives Beasts a lot of bonuses they can take advantage of - Fearless, Hit and Run, Grenades, Blind. He costs a lot of points, however, in this role where a lot of his rules wouldn't be utilized, but I'd really like to see how two large Beast Packs function rushing across the table.

What does he really grant? A bullet sponge and fearless, the rest you already have. Its always better to use a Farseer on a jetbike because prescience makes them very, very powerful. They are already the best deathstar for there points, adding the P.Lord takes that away from them.

 Araenion wrote:
Personally, I would use Baharroth as I would use a Mantle Autarch. A disruption unit sent somewhere to mess up the opponent's plans, while I do my own thing with the rest of my list that is in synergy with itself. I use my Hawks the same way already, he'd just be doing it more in style.

195 points is not that much, when you consider that the Mantle Autarch with the Shard is 183. He might be better in challenges, but he's also void of any special rules, of which Baharroth has many.

He would require a certain list to work well in, I imagine. You need a list that can take advantage of his disruption tactics. So not a good fit into Serpent spam or ADL camping lists.

I think you nailed it Araenion. I play a fast, mostly foot-based army, and that seems to synergize well with him.

I wonder; a Farseer on a Jetbike with the Shard of Anaris.

Better yet which would be your ideal Beastpack configuration? (If you have a different idea besides these, please do tell)

Baron
BM x 5
Khymerae x 10
Razorwing x 6

Farseer + Jetbike + Shard of Anaris
BM x 5
Khymerae x 10
Razorwing x 6
(Have powers nearby the squad)

Farseer + Jetbike + Shard of Anaris
BM x 5
Razorwing x 10
(Have powers nearby the squad, it's a gamble but if you get the 4++ power that many wounds is hard to shift unless S6 weapons)

Baharroth
BM x 5
Khymerae x 10
Razorwing x 6

Baron
BM x 5
CF x 5
(becomes T5 when you throw away 1 BM)

Baharroth
BM x 5
CF x 5
(Baharroth becomes T5 EW as well, CFs have more attacks when their wounds are low + Fearless)

I'm thinking the best synergy with a beastpack and Baharroth doesn't have Baharroth run with the pack(bear in mind, I've never run a Beastpack and don't play DE). I'm thinking you run the beastpack up the board turn one, and baharroth skyleaps off the board. Turn two, Baharroth arrives near the target that the pack is assaulting, potentially blinding them and chucking his Grenade Pack and shooting his Hawk's talon. Beastpack charges the blinded unit. Next turn, Baharroth joins the combat and uses his Sword to Blind again.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I'm thinking the best synergy with a beastpack and Baharroth doesn't have Baharroth run with the pack(bear in mind, I've never run a Beastpack and don't play DE). I'm thinking you run the beastpack up the board turn one, and baharroth skyleaps off the board. Turn two, Baharroth arrives near the target that the pack is assaulting, potentially blinding them and chucking his Grenade Pack and shooting his Hawk's talon. Beastpack charges the blinded unit. Next turn, Baharroth joins the combat and uses his Sword to Blind again.

Gotta love it when people give advice on a unit they don't use in an army they don't play.

In your situation, Baharroth is alone on turn 1 before he sky leaps, turn 2 when he arrives (if you join beasts they cannot assault), and turn 3 as he cannot join a beast pack that's locked in combat. A t4 model with 3 wounds not joined to a unit is very risky for his price tag.

Fearless and hit-and-run are what make beast packs and seer councils work. You want to be in combat during your opponent's turn to not get shot, and break free at the end so you can get a free 3d6" move and shoot the unit they were fighting. Since Baharroth has both, you want him attached. Blind is a gimmick since it's not automatic and some units are immune to it.

The Baron is still superior IMO because he gives you +1 to go first, stealth for the whole unit, offensive and defensive grenades for the whole unit, and a 2++ to potentially fortune. Maybe if Baharroth had an ap2 weapon or better combat abilities, but his wargear is pretty lackluster for an expensive character. He has fearless over the Baron, but an allied seer with shard of anaris covers that base and gives you 3 rolls for fortune or invisibility.

You could keep him and the hawks on the table (seperately), then skyleap t1, and ds t2 w/ 2 templates as well as suns brilliance. join them in the DS, then shoot the **** out of whoever is there.

I've used him a couple of times with success. The important part is to pick your targets well. Keeping him away from 2+ Characters is a must. He should be going after Devastators/scouts and other backfield chumps. Use him and the Hawks to pick on the scoring units your opponent has brought.

I've used 2 squads of swooping hawks, 5 men plus an exarch with a sunrifle. I start one unit on the board with Baharroth, and another in reserve. Take Baharroth and the squad into reserve SEPERATELY. Now they can drop a small blast and a large blast when they come back on, and Baharroth can join them without any problems during the movement phase. As mentioned, he makes a fantastic bullet spounge, for otherwise squishy hawks.

Hawks can threaten anything on the board short of MC's. Remember their Haywire grenades. I had a fantastic time in my last game where I used a 6 man squad with baharroth to multi-assault against 3 venoms, blowing them all up. Two squads of wyches inside assaulted me, and the exarch blinded one on overwatch, while Barry got stuck into the other squad. I lost a couple of squad members in return, H&R out, before shredding them with shooting on the following turn.

The main reason I love Swooping Hawks, and indeed Baharroth is their versatility, and trolling ability. Being able to create huge problems for my opponent, in the middle of their backline is priceless. Being able to blind and drop AP4 Ignore cover templates gives me something fantastic against Tau, who Eldar typically struggle against.

Ohh, and Deepstriking, dropping the blast, shooting, then Battle-focusing behind LOS blocking terrain is fantastic fun.

Used him again today to great effect against Demons. Played against a dogpile list, and the dogs were knocking on the Eldar front door top of turn 1. Shot them with everything I had, then charged in alone with Baharroth. He challenged Karanak, dished out a few wounds, then Hit and Ran away after my opponents turn. Then shot the dogs to pieces again, charged in again with Baharroth, and finished them off before consolidating toward another victim. Good times.