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There are myths going on here at the local gaming store, or so I believe that says:

You cannot charge on the first turn?
As far as I can see there is nothing in the rulebook that says I can't. Only the distance separating both units are the real issue here right?

For exemple: Marine Bob VS Tyranid Joe are deployed in front of each other with only a no mans land on 24" in between.
Marine Bob goes first turn and for some reason he moves 12" with his assault squad right the nids line!
Tyranid Joe then on his first turn move 12" with is raveners right at the assault marines. Well in range of an assault he is allowed to do so right?

When the rules refer to the first turn they really mean the first turn of the player goin first right?
Otherwise like in the reserve rule they will say YOUR second turn for exemple.

Am I correct?

Infiltrate and scout both have prohibitions for the first player turn as well.

The only thing that cannot assault (Unless otherwise limited, like deep strikers) the first PLAYER turn is units that have infiltrated or made a scout move. If you went second, and your opponent moved up to your infiltrated genestealers, you are more than able to assault them.

By the same token, if you infiltrate some Genestealers and your opponent has turn 1, he is allowed to assault them with anything that can reach (Anything with more than 6" of movement").

 pretre wrote:
Infiltrate and scout both have prohibitions for the first player turn as well.

That I knew because it is written black on white in rulebook.

I am really referring to any other unit that as no specific rule preventing it to assault on first turn!

You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

And, as stated, infiltrate and scout outright prohibit it on the first player turn.

As you've spotted, there is no rule stopping you from charging on the first turn at all (either game or player). However, the rules have clearly been designed with that intent in mind.

Scout and Infiltrate, as mentioned, specifically prohibit you (first *player* turn, mind).
No assaulting from a vehicle if it moved over 6" (this also stops Orky RPJ shenanigans and most if not all instances of sideways deployment with pivot in first move).
No assaulting from reserve unless specifically allowed (the two units that can - Vanguard Veterans and Ymgarl Genestealers - have no way to use this ability arriving on turn 1).

Hence, the only way it's possible is in the first *game* turn, by having the second *player* turn and by having Scouts, Infiltrators or an eager opponent. The idea seems to be - with reserves involved too and the addition of Interceptor - that it shouldn't be possible to attack in such a way that your opponent doesn't get at least one chance to do something about it.

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

 Super Ready wrote:
As you've spotted, there is no rule stopping you from charging on the first turn at all (either game or player). However, the rules have clearly been designed with that intent in mind.

Scout and Infiltrate, as mentioned, specifically prohibit you (first *player* turn, mind).
No assaulting from a vehicle if it moved over 6" (this also stops Orky RPJ shenanigans and most if not all instances of sideways deployment with pivot in first move).
No assaulting from reserve unless specifically allowed (the two units that can - Vanguard Veterans and Ymgarl Genestealers - have no way to use this ability arriving on turn 1).

Hence, the only way it's possible is in the first *game* turn, by having the second *player* turn and by having Scouts, Infiltrators or an eager opponent. The idea seems to be - with reserves involved too and the addition of Interceptor - that it shouldn't be possible to attack in such a way that your opponent doesn't get at least one chance to do something about it.

Don't forget Zagstruk's storm boyz

 Super Ready wrote:
As you've spotted, there is no rule stopping you from charging on the first turn at all (either game or player). However, the rules have clearly been designed with that intent in mind.

Scout and Infiltrate, as mentioned, specifically prohibit you (first *player* turn, mind).
No assaulting from a vehicle if it moved over 6" (this also stops Orky RPJ shenanigans and most if not all instances of sideways deployment with pivot in first move).
No assaulting from reserve unless specifically allowed (the two units that can - Vanguard Veterans and Ymgarl Genestealers - have no way to use this ability arriving on turn 1).

Hence, the only way it's possible is in the first *game* turn, by having the second *player* turn and by having Scouts, Infiltrators or an eager opponent. The idea seems to be - with reserves involved too and the addition of Interceptor - that it shouldn't be possible to attack in such a way that your opponent doesn't get at least one chance to do something about it.

This.... there are no rules stopping a charge on the 1st turn. Having said that I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see it happen and work.

or an ork truck moving 7 inches, the boys get out and move six, then assault 11-12 inches if they roll well enough... its totally possible, but only select armies can do it

Nothing outright prevents first turn charges. Typically though, first turn charges only tend to happen if your opponent lets it happen. Deploying all the way forward vs Nobs Bikers, Thunderwolf Calv, Manz missiles and many other fast assault units is a bit of a bonehead move.

I've had a few games where my opponent didn't exactly understand how fast/killy thunderwolf cavalry are and they pushed their units 6 inches straight towards me. Allowing me some turn 1 assaulty goodness.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
or an ork truck moving 7 inches, the boys get out and move six, then assault 11-12 inches if they roll well enough... its totally possible, but only select armies can do it

Okay so the ork codex states that the red paint adds +1 to movement to the model but the model counts as moving only 6" for ALL game purposes. I have looked through the FAQ and found nothing to deny this ruling. The latest FAQ for orks came out in april so its fairly new.

By this I would say yes.

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

You have to deploy at least 24" apart. I.e. 24.000001.

Beasts can only charge 24". So they would be .000001 short of a charge.

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

You're correct about the move distance of beasts and cav...but you've forgotten the wording of deployment. You must start MORE THAN 12" away from the center line. So that means that the distance between you and your opponent will be AT LEAST 24.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001", which is farther than 24"

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

BRB page 121 "a player'sdeployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line"

Note it says 'more than' 12" from the central line. This means even if you move the full 12" in your movement phase (first player turn) you are still going to be more than 12" from your enemy (who also deployed more than 12" from the central line), even if that is 1/10000000th of an inch it is still, technically, impossible to charge first player turn as you would then have to charge more than 12 inches to make it to your opponents line..

*ninja'd twice!*

Rorschach9 wrote:

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

BRB page 121 "a player'sdeployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line"

Note it says 'more than' 12" from the central line. This means even if you move the full 12" in your movement phase (first player turn) you are still going to be more than 12" from your enemy (who also deployed more than 12" from the central line), even if that is 1/10000000th of an inch it is still, technically, impossible to charge first player turn as you would then have to charge more than 12 inches to make it to your opponents line..

*ninja'd twice!*

Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

osirisx69 wrote:
Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

How are you rolling 13 on 2d6?

There are a couple ways to charge more than 12, but they are rare (warlord traits, etc.)

 pretre wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

How are you rolling 13 on 2d6?

There are a couple ways to charge more than 12, but they are rare (warlord traits, etc.)

Oh please read my above post about orks and red paint M8.

I am sure you just missed that....

Also ork stormboyz can move 12+d6 with their jump pack move, so they'll on average only need about 8-9 more inches to charge, less if they roll well on that d6

osirisx69 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

How are you rolling 13 on 2d6?

There are a couple ways to charge more than 12, but they are rare (warlord traits, etc.)

Oh please read my above post about orks and red paint M8.

I am sure you just missed that....

No, I got it.

You're not assaulting 13. You're moving + RPJ then assaulting 2D6.

osirisx69 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

BRB page 121 "a player'sdeployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line"

Note it says 'more than' 12" from the central line. This means even if you move the full 12" in your movement phase (first player turn) you are still going to be more than 12" from your enemy (who also deployed more than 12" from the central line), even if that is 1/10000000th of an inch it is still, technically, impossible to charge first player turn as you would then have to charge more than 12 inches to make it to your opponents line..

*ninja'd twice!*

Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

Assuming RPJ on an Ork transport (and assuming you mean move 13", not assault as your Orks jumping out of that transport aren't going to get the +1 for their assault distance) that they can then assault out of after moving 12" (13 with RPJ) then I guess Orks would be the only ones that (afaik) could potentially assault Player Turn 1.

** EDIT : Can you assault after your transport has moved 12" (+1 for RPJ)? You cannot disembark from a vehicle that has moved more than 6" (+1 for RPJ), so if you cannot disembark, you cannot assault, correct? In which case you're still not moving the 24.0000000000x" in T1 and assaulting .. right?[

** Re-EDIT : Nevermind. Disembark after moving 7" (with RJP), move wholy within 6" of the vehicles disembarkation point, you've now moved just shy of 13" and can potentially get a 12" assault distance bringing you to 24.9999 inches from starting point. I concede, Orks with an assault vehicle that has RPJ can do this.

Sideways landraider.

Rorschach9 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Lord_Tyrant wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
You cannot charge on the first PLAYER turn because of the distance which means you will be more than 12" (and thus unable to complete a charge) from your opponent even if you have moved forward.

what about beasts (raveners, horses) that are 24" from an enemy unit?

They can move 12" in move phase and can (technicaly) move 12" in assault if they roll 12 with 2D6. That would made 24" right?

Please i'm not talking about probability here, i'm realy asking about the RULES.. Am I allowed to charge on 1st turn or not?

Thank you!

BRB page 121 "a player'sdeployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line"

Note it says 'more than' 12" from the central line. This means even if you move the full 12" in your movement phase (first player turn) you are still going to be more than 12" from your enemy (who also deployed more than 12" from the central line), even if that is 1/10000000th of an inch it is still, technically, impossible to charge first player turn as you would then have to charge more than 12 inches to make it to your opponents line..

*ninja'd twice!*

Hence my orks can charge 13" or are you guys just referring to every other race?

Assuming RPJ on an Ork transport (and assuming you mean move 13", not assault as your Orks jumping out of that transport aren't going to get the +1 for their assault distance) that they can then assault out of after moving 12" (13 with RPJ) then I guess Orks would be the only ones that (afaik) could potentially assault Player Turn 1.

pretre this............

osirisx69 wrote:
pretre this............

That's a lot different than "my orks can charge 13" "

 pretre wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
pretre this............

That's a lot different than "my orks can charge 13" "

How is it? I spelled it out in my post a few posts up...... Are you sure you read all my post on this page? Or are you just being a picker and found a nit on the usage of the word "charge"?

Pivoting vehicles is also a way to gain that additional distance to charge on the first turn. Orks have it easiest, but other armies could as well, DE transports are notorious for gaining ground with sideways deployment.

Fragile wrote:
Pivoting vehicles is also a way to gain that additional distance to charge on the first turn. Orks have it easiest, but other armies could as well, DE transports are notorious for gaining ground with sideways deployment.

Wait, wait, lol. Are you saying that an assault tank or transport can deploy sideways and be 12.000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then during 1st turn change facing so it gets some extra inches on its movement? I am sorry if this is off topic....

osirisx69 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Pivoting vehicles is also a way to gain that additional distance to charge on the first turn. Orks have it easiest, but other armies could as well, DE transports are notorious for gaining ground with sideways deployment.

Wait, wait, lol. Are you saying that an assault tank or transport can deploy sideways and be 12.000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then during 1st turn change facing so it gets some extra inches on its movement? I am sorry if this is off topic....

It has been that way forever. Depending on the person you are playing against it ranges from perfectly okay to the height of cheatery.

 pretre wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Pivoting vehicles is also a way to gain that additional distance to charge on the first turn. Orks have it easiest, but other armies could as well, DE transports are notorious for gaining ground with sideways deployment.

Wait, wait, lol. Are you saying that an assault tank or transport can deploy sideways and be 12.000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then during 1st turn change facing so it gets some extra inches on its movement? I am sorry if this is off topic....

It has been that way forever. Depending on the person you are playing against it ranges from perfectly okay to the height of cheatery.

Is there a ymtc topic on it? if that's the case then the ork trukk ,which is over 4.5 inches in length so you would get half that, is clearly in range on turn 1 with rpj .

osirisx69 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Pivoting vehicles is also a way to gain that additional distance to charge on the first turn. Orks have it easiest, but other armies could as well, DE transports are notorious for gaining ground with sideways deployment.

Wait, wait, lol. Are you saying that an assault tank or transport can deploy sideways and be 12.000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then during 1st turn change facing so it gets some extra inches on its movement? I am sorry if this is off topic....

It has been that way forever. Depending on the person you are playing against it ranges from perfectly okay to the height of cheatery.

Is there a ymtc topic on it?

There probably is. The tactic is cheesy at best and you're unlikely to ever play that opponent again (or any who watch you do it).