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Dakka:

Two LFGSs recently dropped GW products completely from their shelves due to negligible sales. (Missed the sales by a couple of hours each.) One is a big hobby store (RC and kid stuff) while the other is a gaming store. Has anyone else seen this in their area. It's happened in the last month and it means I don't have a store less than 35 minutes from home.

Just curious if there's a trend afoot or just my bad luck.

Thanks,

Yakmandoo

I have seen a couple stores drop games-workshop as well (although you would need far more data to call it a trend). From what I have seen it is usually because of the difficulty the store has getting in product that sells well while being forced to purchase things that sell poorly. The recent fiasco where games-workshop could not (or would not) give FLGS stock at release and instead kept it for their own stores has not helped either.

Different stores that drop it have their own reasons, but from what I have seen it is typically due to poor business practices on GW's part that leave the store/owner feeling spurned.

I remember back in the 90's GW products used to dominate most floor space at my game shop. Last couple years the orders have dwindled, and as of a few months ago it finally closed shop. I'm not saying its a trend just my personal experience.

I feel silly for asking, but what does FLGS stand for?

I've known a hobby store nearby to drop gw products because they didn't net the store enough of a profit and they didn't have the space for gaming tables so that aspect of the product held no value to them as a "get people in your store" hook

The nearest store that sells gw products doesn't seem to be terribly fond of them, judging from off handed comments that managers have made...and who could blame them?

Really though, outside of buying at an flgs because you play there, there isn't any reason that a person should purchase through any avenue other than eBay or other private sellers...since gw products have a low profit margin anyway compared to other products, I don't think it would hurt most stores terribly to dump their products

This has happened to about 2-3 locations where malls in our city (Ottawa) have dropped GW products and even kicked out GW stores =/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just food for thought,

I have a theory as to why..

Currently GW has problems with people selling their products outside the store straight from factory, essentially bypassing GW locations and online buys from the GW site altogether..

My thoughts are that if they are purposely trying to remove (albeit slowly) their store locations, they might just end up with an ONLY online market for their product completely eliminating the middle-men all together and the workers...

That's just my 2c

Cypher-xv wrote:


I feel silly for asking, but what does FLGS stand for?

Friendly
Local
Gaming
Store.

I wouldn't be surprised if my local stops carrying it.
Between GW not supplying them with orders and the SFA demand for the rest of their stuff and M:tG cards selling their arses off, they don't NEED GW anymore.

Cypher-xv wrote:
I feel silly for asking, but what does FLGS stand for?

Anything you see come up in yellow letters on here, you can hover over the mouse with to get the full term. For instance - BA LC MEQ.

Here in the UK, it used to be that you could wander into a random model shop, gaming shop or comic book shop and you'd find *something* GW there - probably not much, but it'd be there. Nowadays that's not really the case, but there are a LOT less of these kinds of shops still going.

We have two places nearby that used to stock GW - a small local model shop (mostly selling things like model railways and Airfix) and a Hobbycraft, which is a big hobby chain that typically has an aisle or two of the same model railway/Airfix stuff along with stuff to make scenery and so on.
The former stopped stocking a couple of years ago, as a combination of our GW opening and one of the price hikes at about the same time - they (understandably) got a bit butthurt about it and told GW where they could shove it. The latter I think has just realised that they're not selling that well, so they're sloooooowly selling off the stock they already have as I assume GW won't take it back (they're still selling a couple of old kits GW no longer stocks, sadly nothing retroactively valuable).

GW was at it's peak when I started the hobby some 12 years ago, since it became a PLC it has been in steady decline due to poor policy and underhanded money grabbing schemes.

My stores seem like they would probably drop it if they could, but due to the massive 40k community in the area, they don't really have a choice.

I have a feeling though if they could get another company to stock those shelves and still sell models they would do it in a heartbeat.

One of them still has every single LoTR box they got when the new stuff was released. They haven't sold a single thing. GW apparently made them stock it if they wanted to keep stocking 40k. Fantasy apparently rarely sells anything either, so 2 of the 3 model lines the store has barely sell and the guy can't really do anything about it.

 chromedog wrote:

Cypher-xv wrote:


I feel silly for asking, but what does FLGS stand for?

Friendly
Local
Gaming

Thank you.

@Super Ready: Thank you, unfortunately I only have a tablet. No computer.:(
Of course it's good to know.

The store I used to play magic at had an entire aisle (out of the three they had) dedicated to GW, then GW opened up a ne store across the street which would sell stuff cheaper than they could.
They've pretty much tossed out all GW stuff now, safe for the white dwarf and the paints rack(as people also use GW paints for other miniatures). However, they offer to order for you at Waylands at no extra cost, they simply get to keep the shipping they save by mass-ordering.

My main local shop stopped a while ago. He said that other than a few popular items, most stuff just sat on the shelf and GW wouldn't take it back. Additionally, the profit on what he did sell was considerably less.

I saw it about 8 or 9 years ago in my area but not so much recently. At the time there were about 8 game stores in a 30 mile radius that all sold either exclusively GW or sold GW as their main line. A lot of those stores went out of business but the ones that stayed in business sort of settled in different directions. So one store had a lot more RPG players while another had mostly card gamers, etc. So of the 3 left in my area, two stopped carrying GW because they stopped selling table top war games in general and the third INCREASED GW stock and is going gang-busters. They have the entire line (literally everything) plus even some FW bits and bobs and tend to have complete sell-throughs almost every month. This store even had all the new Tau stuff when no one else could get it. I mean, they didn't have a lot of Tau stuff, but they had it. I really just think it's all dependent on the local gaming community. That store probably has close to 40/50 regular players on it's 15 tables. The ones that stopped doing wargames had maybe 12 players so there you have it imo.

It's to be expected. GW product takes a lot of valuable shelf space; and a fair amount of the products just don't move very quickly unless you have a good sized community.

We have a local shop that sells a lot of 40k. However they have regular tournaments, ongoing league games and generally do things to draw people into the store. I know every time I'm ready to pick something up I'll either drop by or just email the owner. They also sell at a discount, which certainly helps. Esclation leagues alone help encourage people to buy new stuff.

I've seen a number of other shops drop GW altogether, but they never put the level of effort necessary into it.

For example, we had one that decided to put in paintball equipment. To do that they dropped from 3 open tables to 1. 6 months later they've all but stopped carrying GW stuff because people stopped going there. I have no idea if it was the right decision for that store, but it certainly changed their customer base.

If sales slow ( as they have ) then the shop will look at how to get the most out of the given area. Which might be magic, comics or other games.

40 customers does not a business make.

My FLGS is new, and does not stock any lotr stuff, but does a roaring trade in 40k and some fantasy sales.

The local GW is heading for extinction, and having recently gotten a peek into the sales (I'll not go into how) I'm shocked the new manager is still in his post with GW's corporate style.

All the other shops in the city who used to stock GW stopped years ago, though.

My local store just decided to drop it's trade agreement with GW so it can sell off all the Warhammer Fantasy at a discount and use the wall space for other companies like Mantic, Privateer Press, ETC. The word is currently they will continue to stock 40K miniatures, they'll just be getting the models from a 3rd party distributor instead of GW directly. I'm not sure how it will impact things like new releases and/or pricing yet....

My local store stopped carrying GW for about a year now.
He complained of no packing slips, short shipments, them requiring payment up front and not settling properly when short shipments happened.
General communication with them not being professional and increasing "demands" of how he should run his business.
He was required to buy their special paint rack and within a couple months the new paints came out and they wanted him to buy a new, new paint rack.
He told them to stuff it and take their product back.
He still has much of the larger kits not sold off (mainly fantasy battle) so he will not be making up with them any time soon.

Most of my local cities do not carry any GW.

I have one store about 40km away that is near a college and two universities that has a lot of GW stuff but they move such a HUGE amount of product they pretty much dictate terms. They have such a large diversity of product that they easily tell GW get what they want or other suppliers will fill the space, and it is done. I am surprised that just by monitoring their account GW would have a good case to open a store in their area.

What few stores that dealt with GW I have had an opportunity to talk to has not ever been good. I even have asked if there was anything they liked about them and it has only been replacement for bad product pretty much no questions asked BUT the incidences of bad product had increased noticeably.

Trend? possibly. GW appears to believe that local hobby stores do not make them enough money and are a "middle man" so this may be a wanted trend.
The problem is they do not advertise enough and casual exposure to new gamers is less likely to happen so I do not have high hopes of increased market share.

I wish GW luck but I think the golden goose is running out of eggs.

I wish GW luck but I think the golden goose is running out of eggs.

Which is exactly what many people were saying when they killed 2nd ed to introduce third. Then they said it again when 4th went to fifth and now people are saying it in 6th. There will always be naysayers and people claiming that the GW sky is falling and some of them will even occasionally have well reasoned arguments but in reallity, very little has actually changed. Something must be working for GW or they wouldn't still be on their current course. I know for example that of the stores that closed in my area two of them initially stopped carrying GW because too many players were buying direct from GW on-line (WHY they were doing that I will never understand ...) so even when stores stop carrying it, it doesn't mean GW have stopped selling it ...

We have two local stores and one, the nicer one, in the nicer area still has a wealth of GW product, and a big player-base. The other is the type that loudly yells about not wanting that "evil" game in their shop, and won't stock anything (nor welcomes 40k players).

Mind you, the later is COVERED with Warmachine/Hordes branding, from wall-to-wall.

I think smaller places are just finding the margins on WM more appealing, along with the idea that new gamers might have a low barrier to entry (even if battlebox sized games are a laughable representation of the real game).

Tycho wrote:

I wish GW luck but I think the golden goose is running out of eggs.

Which is exactly what many people were saying when they killed 2nd ed to introduce third. Then they said it again when 4th went to fifth and now people are saying it in 6th. There will always be naysayers and people claiming that the GW sky is falling and some of them will even occasionally have well reasoned arguments but in reallity, very little has actually changed. Something must be working for GW or they wouldn't still be on their current course. I know for example that of the stores that closed in my area two of them initially stopped carrying GW because too many players were buying direct from GW on-line (WHY they were doing that I will never understand ...) so even when stores stop carrying it, it doesn't mean GW have stopped selling it ...

Not really analogous comparisons. The economy wasn't in the crapper when any edition dropped except 6th. People are genuinely looking to cut costs and little plastic men, however addicting, don't fit into that equation for the sensible buyer. These products do have a certain amount of elasticity, but it's painfully obvious to anyone who knows business that gw is putting chewing gum into the holes on a leaky boat.

Sure, some stores drop it, but that's nothing new. Games come and go, with a few staple exceptions. It's a simple matter of a market that isn't permanently stagnant. Honestly, I can only think of Magic, Btech and DnD(now more pathfinder, but for now still both) that have remained in the stores I frequent and have in the last ten years. The ratios of each certainly have changed though.

Retailers hating Games Workshop is nothing new though. I remember the owner of the store I bought stuff from in the nineties complaining about them.

And their practices with local stores hasn't gotten any better. Their attempts to both sell through local stores, and operate local stores has pushed them into these bizarre practices that hurt them in the long run.

I think it's just been a focus on margin rather than community. To have customers for a product like this, you need a community. GW treats these game stores like clients, not as partners, like they probably should. After all, even if they make less money selling product through 3rd party retailers, they drive up engagement with their community, which can use those stores to play games, meet other people who play games and thus play more games. And the more games they play, the more fun they have and the more fun they have, the more money they spend.

So yeah, trying to force sales through mail order and GW stores means you make more money per box to toy soldiers, but it may mean you're driving stores out of business that the people buying your toy soldiers use to play with them.

Well the goal is to spread awareness of GW products so that new players can be recruited. FLGS greatly help in these efforts, however, it is far more profitable for GW to sell directly to customers.

This is why we see FLGS carry products, recruit new players and then GW changes the terms so that the FLGS drop GW products. The players still want GW products so most instead buy directly from GW.

The real process is more complex and spans over a few years, but that is pretty much the story.

The problem is that's not an effective business strategy. Customers are a loop. You have to continue to find new ones, because 40K isn't an endless hobby. I didn't buy anything for 40K for a decade. Some of my friends haven't bought new ones since the 90s. If GW continued to sell models, it was to somebody else who was a new customer.

They can't just cut off the FLGS to increase their margins, because that only works in the short term.

My FLGS has just started stocking GW for the first time. As I get a store discount that's a big bonus for me.

My FLGS just recently finally picked up a large stock of GW products. Previously they only had a handful of items. Perhaps me showing the owner that I spent nearly 1k on the hobby this year (mostly through Ebay) influenced him.

Locrian wrote:
My FLGS just recently finally picked up a large stock of GW products. Previously they only had a handful of items. Perhaps me showing the owner that I spent nearly 1k on the hobby this year (mostly through Ebay) influenced him.

That'd be a terribly stupid hunch to go off of.

 infinite_array wrote:

Locrian wrote:
My FLGS just recently finally picked up a large stock of GW products. Previously they only had a handful of items. Perhaps me showing the owner that I spent nearly 1k on the hobby this year (mostly through Ebay) influenced him.

That'd be a terribly stupid hunch to go off of.

Uh, it's not really a hunch, I know the guy personally (I teach his kid guitar) and we discussed it at length in determining whether he would make enough sales to make it worthwhile, including showing him the number of players locally that play and travel an hour away to the next town that carries the product. The first step was getting him to carry the paint line, which was a relatively low risk investment. Once the paint was moving, it was obvious that people had to be putting that paint on something, so sell the something. But thanks for the useless comment.

Locrian wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

Locrian wrote:
My FLGS just recently finally picked up a large stock of GW products. Previously they only had a handful of items. Perhaps me showing the owner that I spent nearly 1k on the hobby this year (mostly through Ebay) influenced him.

That'd be a terribly stupid hunch to go off of.

Uh, it's not really a hunch, I know the guy personally (I teach his kid guitar) and we discussed it at length in determining whether he would make enough sales to make it worthwhile, including showing him the number of players locally that play and travel an hour away to the next town that carries the product. But thanks for the useless comment.

His comment wasn't useless. If you're showing a person (regardless of how well you know this man) that you use eBay to purchase models, then his assumption that stocking those same models will generate sales is a bad one. You're already showing the propensity to shop online for discounted models, rather than buying them full price (as you could have done from the games-workshop website). Therefore, it WAS a terribly stupid hunch to think that a person buying eBay models would spend the extra 20-50% to buy them in person at a local store instead. It doesn't follow logic.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Locrian wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

Locrian wrote:
My FLGS just recently finally picked up a large stock of GW products. Previously they only had a handful of items. Perhaps me showing the owner that I spent nearly 1k on the hobby this year (mostly through Ebay) influenced him.

That'd be a terribly stupid hunch to go off of.

Uh, it's not really a hunch, I know the guy personally (I teach his kid guitar) and we discussed it at length in determining whether he would make enough sales to make it worthwhile, including showing him the number of players locally that play and travel an hour away to the next town that carries the product. But thanks for the useless comment.

His comment wasn't useless. If you're showing a person (regardless of how well you know this man) that you use eBay to purchase models, then his assumption that stocking those same models will generate sales is a bad one. You're already showing the propensity to shop online for discounted models, rather than buying them full price (as you could have done from the games-workshop website). Therefore, it WAS a terribly stupid hunch to think that a person buying eBay models would spend the extra 20-50% to buy them in person at a local store instead. It doesn't follow logic.

By that (flawed) logic, why do any store fronts exist to purchase any product?

Therefore, it WAS a terribly stupid hunch to think that a person buying eBay models would spend the extra 20-50% to buy them in person at a local store instead. It doesn't follow logic.

I don't know what world you live on, but ebay prices are NOT anywhere near 50% cheaper than what you would receive via discount at a store. The drop pod I bought yesterday, was the same price it sells for on ebay, minus me having to pay shipping. Win/win. Independent shops, for any product, do NOT sell at retail, like you would pay through GW.