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Now i've seen this in a couple of places that the Guard will apparently have a new codex early next year and it got me thinking, surely not. I mean the codex is only 4 ish years old, it's still competitive and decent and surely there are older, weaker codexes in more of a need to update that the Imperial guards. So, question is, why have these rumours come about? and do you think the guard need an update? and if not, who does?

After seeing what the utter trainwreck of the new Tau codex did to my army I would honestly prefer that GW skip IG entirely until they fire the current idiots they have writing their codices and replace them with professional game designers.

 Peregrine wrote:
After seeing what the utter trainwreck of the new Tau codex did to my army I would honestly prefer that GW skip IG entirely until they fire the current idiots they have writing their codices and replace them with professional game designers.

Tau are one of the most competitive armies out there right now. What have you got to complain about?

 Talore wrote:
Tau are one of the most competitive armies out there right now. What have you got to complain about?

Tanks (the part I liked most) were nerfed to death, crisis suits losing BS 4 is stupid and unfluffy, Broadsides losing their railguns is stupid and unfluffy, and Riptide spam dominating tournaments is hardly a good thing (especially when Riptides shouldn't exist in the first place fluff-wise). It's only a good codex if the only thing you care about is how well you can win.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
Tau are one of the most competitive armies out there right now. What have you got to complain about?

and Riptide spam dominating tournaments is hardly a good thing (especially when Riptides shouldn't exist in the first place fluff-wise).

Everything GW publishes for standard 40k, including codices, Forge World, and White Dwarf, is part of the game (and background). You can choose not to play with or against any of them (or try to say they shouldn't exist), but don't pretend that your choice is anything but a house rule.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Everything GW publishes for standard 40k, including codices, Forge World, and White Dwarf, is part of the game (and background). You can choose not to play with or against any of them (or try to say they shouldn't exist), but don't pretend that your choice is anything but a house rule.

Sigh. Can you really not tell the difference between "I think X was a stupid decision and I wish GW had done it differently" and "X should be banned"? Because you sure don't seem to be able to figure it out.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Everything GW publishes for standard 40k, including codices, Forge World, and White Dwarf, is part of the game (and background). You can choose not to play with or against any of them (or try to say they shouldn't exist), but don't pretend that your choice is anything but a house rule.

Sigh. Can you really not tell the difference between "I think X was a stupid decision and I wish GW had done it differently" and "X should be banned"? Because you sure don't seem to be able to figure it out.

Sigh, can you not tell that I'm joking around? I'm making light of the fact that there seems to be a disparity between how you feel about Tau and what your signature states.

He's got you there!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
Tau are one of the most competitive armies out there right now. What have you got to complain about?

Tanks (the part I liked most) were nerfed to death, crisis suits losing BS 4 is stupid and unfluffy, Broadsides losing their railguns is stupid and unfluffy, and Riptide spam dominating tournaments is hardly a good thing (especially when Riptides shouldn't exist in the first place fluff-wise). It's only a good codex if the only thing you care about is how well you can win.

There is a lot about the game where it does not into fluff for the sake of the gameplay itself. For example, if Space Marines were as amazing as they were in Black Library novels and such then a single Marine could stand a good chance against an entire army.

 gmaleron wrote:
There is a lot about the game where it does not into fluff for the sake of the gameplay itself. For example, if Space Marines were as amazing as they were in Black Library novels and such then a single Marine could stand a good chance against an entire army.

Except Tau had those fluffy things and were one of the weaker codices. The new codex destroyed some of the fluffy things while simultaneously making other parts of the army overpowered. What GW should have done was keep the good parts of the old codex as a starting point and adjust power level upwards to meet the current standard, but instead we got tournament-dominating Riptide spam with other stuff crippled to make up for it.

And this is why I'm afraid of the IG update. I do NOT want to have stuff randomly nerfed to push everyone in the direction of the new overpowered kits.

You'd rather us be pushed to the current overpowered kit?

 Talore wrote:
You'd rather us be pushed to the current overpowered kit?

Yes. As bad as balance is right now I'm seriously concerned, based on the "quality" of rules GW has been publishing, that a new IG codex will make things worse.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
You'd rather us be pushed to the current overpowered kit?

Yes. As bad as balance is right now I'm seriously concerned, based on the "quality" of rules GW has been publishing, that a new IG codex will make things worse.

What aspects do you forsee getting worse in the next update? I'm not going to go as far as saying IG is bad right now, but almost every batrep I watch IG is getting wrecked. I never see Ogryns/Rough Riders/Penal Legion/Stormtroopers/Chimera/Hellhound/Valkyrie/Basilisk used anymore. In the event that they do, it usually goes south very very quickly unless they do exceptionally well on rolls.

All I ever see is Vendettas, Vanquishers, Punishers, Executioners, occasionally manticores/Hydra with Aegis Defense Line & bare minimum troop requirements. I like our current codex, but I feel there is room for improvement.

Commissar Benny wrote:
What aspects do you forsee getting worse in the next update?

Game balance as a whole. A new codex that is completely overpowered (with most of that power probably concentrated in the new kits) is just as bad as a weak codex that can't compete at the highest levels.

I like our current codex, but I feel there is room for improvement.

Of course there's room for improvement. I'd love to see a new IG codex written by competent professionals. Unfortunately GW doesn't seem to have any of those.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
You'd rather us be pushed to the current overpowered kit?

Yes. As bad as balance is right now I'm seriously concerned, based on the "quality" of rules GW has been publishing, that a new IG codex will make things worse.

Fair. I do think that the individual authors and the disparities between them play a significant role in this, so I'm just hoping that Ward will do the IG codex.

 Talore wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
You'd rather us be pushed to the current overpowered kit?

Yes. As bad as balance is right now I'm seriously concerned, based on the "quality" of rules GW has been publishing, that a new IG codex will make things worse.

Fair. I do think that the individual authors and the disparities between them play a significant role in this, so I'm just hoping that Ward will do the IG codex.

I've heard Vortek (Tau Writer) willing be doing our codex. While I think some people are excited about that, I don't want the IG codex to turn into "that" army where no one wants to play you & you feel bad about fielding your army like the current Tau codex.

I am happy with the current IG codex. The post well above mentions that some units never see play. That is true, with rules changes in 6th, rough riders and ogryns took a hit, even when you never saw them played to often.

I would like to see something along the lines of how the SM codex has different chapter rules when using a certain HQ. It would be nice to see a difference in tactics when using Cadians, Catachans, or, any of the other regiments.

I hope we do not get some big monster creature walker like thing, like the Tau and Eldar. Not in the mood for that. What would I like to see?

1. Points drops for Storm troopers and Ogryns. seeing as how points drop for everything so far in the newer codex(es)?, i am sure everything will drop in points.

2. That said, certain things need points increase. Vendettas, hydra. I'm an IG player, and, those points are way under what they should be.

3. Maybe give the hydra a way to have inteceptor. A good point investment.

There is more, but, this isn't the place for that.

You could just field tau without following the cookie-cutter build...

Also, a book that fiddles with things to make more stuff playable would be nice, major changes would be a problem (other than nerfing the vendetta out of the sky (or making it 0-1) and a few other things like worthless ogryn), but I really don't see that coming.

(Oh, and Peregrine, do you really think STR10 railsides were reasonable? STR8 was toofar the other way, but STR10 was frankly worse, no?)

The fact is that although the IG codex in its current state is not that old, it's GW's accelerated release schedule that means we are getting one sooner than expected. It's the same with SM, as orks, DE and arguably all-but-one nid build are all in far worse shape than them, but from a business POV, SM sell more so get updated. That said, with nids rumoured for november, and orks possibly for early 2014, the only others needing updates are the various SM chapters, most of which have more recent codexes, Necrons who will probably be last, SOB and guard. So between those last 2, IG has a more established fanbase and potentially wider appeal, and = more profit for less effort. So in short, we don't need an update, but will get one as it is possibly the most 'logical' choice after Orks and Nids.

I agree that I would rather they don't touch the codex other than to balance the things that got better/worse with the change in edition (Vendettas for the former, ogryn, RR for the latter). I hope none of the mechanics change too much, as Platoons and Orders are what separates guard from being 'just another horde army', and looking at the previous 6th ed codexes, most of the core mechanics stayed the same, with the only major changes being new kits and points changes (generally downwards), so I don't see a reason to fear a new codex, barring some complete catastrophe.

gmaleron wrote: There is a lot about the game where it does not into fluff for the sake of the sales. For example, if Space Marines were as amazing as they were in Black Library novels and such then a single Marine could stand a good chance against an entire army.

Fixed it for you.

Space Marines suck on the table top because that way you need to buy more of them. And so that other people buy other armies without thinking "If I played Space Marines, I'd only need 20 guys."

40K hasn't ever really been about presenting an accurate depiction of the universe, at least for a long, long time. It's just about getting people to buy plastic toy soldiers to move at one another, roll dice, and remove from the table. A "real" Space Marine army would be tiny. So would a lot of the other armies with elite units. Remember it's not just Space Marines that get written up in the fluff. Exarchs that would be killed on the tabletop if you piled enough Marines onto them will instead dance about invincibly in the books being much faster and dodgier than I5, A2 would suggest, heh. People complain enough about it being Herohammer. But there's no way they would just want to play an army full of Guardians led by a handful of super awesome aspect warriors.

 martin74 wrote:
I hope we do not get some big monster creature walker like thing, like the Tau and Eldar. Not in the mood for that. What would I like to see?

Guess what your getting?



Just add a few Aquila's here and there and your sorted

 gmaleron wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Talore wrote:
Tau are one of the most competitive armies out there right now. What have you got to complain about?

Tanks (the part I liked most) were nerfed to death, crisis suits losing BS 4 is stupid and unfluffy, Broadsides losing their railguns is stupid and unfluffy, and Riptide spam dominating tournaments is hardly a good thing (especially when Riptides shouldn't exist in the first place fluff-wise). It's only a good codex if the only thing you care about is how well you can win.

There is a lot about the game where it does not into fluff for the sake of the gameplay itself. For example, if Space Marines were as amazing as they were in Black Library novels and such then a single Marine could stand a good chance against an entire army.

Keep in mind, the 40k fluff itself is highly variable depending on who's the author and who the protagonist and antagonist is. Abnett's vision of Space Marines in Brothers of the Snake was so obnoxiously over the top I couldn't finish the book, while in his Gaunts Ghosts books Chaos Space Marines are relatively easily and quickly dispatched.

 happygolucky wrote:

 martin74 wrote:
I hope we do not get some big monster creature walker like thing, like the Tau and Eldar. Not in the mood for that. What would I like to see?

Guess what your getting?



Just add a few Aquila's here and there and your sorted

Yup. I loled. At work. Awkward looks did abound.

I agree with Peregrine about the Tau codex though, I picked up Tau when they first came out and after digging them out of storage I was sad to find the list nigh unplayable. Really, barely useable even in a semi-competetive setting. I totally understand the sentiment for having your entire army screwed by a new codex.

That being said, there's nothing like that new codex smell. There's something to be said for pouring over a new codex pages and dreaming up tactics as you fall asleep at night. Or at work.

 happygolucky wrote:

 martin74 wrote:
I hope we do not get some big monster creature walker like thing, like the Tau and Eldar. Not in the mood for that. What would I like to see?

Guess what your getting?



Just add a few Aquila's here and there and your sorted

I would be more than okay with that. Or putting the Sentinel Power Loader in the main book. Either way.

 watchamacarcess wrote:
Now i've seen this in a couple of places that the Guard will apparently have a new codex early next year and it got me thinking, surely not. I mean the codex is only 4 ish years old, it's still competitive and decent and surely there are older, weaker codexes in more of a need to update that the Imperial guards. So, question is, why have these rumours come about? and do you think the guard need an update? and if not, who does?

Given the rate of the release and rumours of 'nids in November that would leave: Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Orks, Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights and Necrons without a 6th edition upgrade. As such, with an alternating release schedule like this year all but 2 of those forces could easily have a codex upgrade in 2014. So it should come as no surprise that IG would be on the likely list for next year. It is just the nature of how things are going now. I am somewhat chuckling a little that there seems to be a hint of "GW is releasing things too fast" in this thread which is great after all the years of people complaining about waiting years for an upgrade to their codex for a new edition. Hahahahahahahaha! If they stick to the same pattern they could have every book updated in slightly over 2 years and be able to add a completely new army or two to the mix or spam a billion different supplmental codecies once done. On that list Grey Knights and Necrons got the most recent books in 5th edition so I'd be betting on seeing all of the rest hit shelves before the end of 2014. I certainly like the sound of that.

Peregrine, just because the Riptide is in your codex doesn't mean you have to use one yourself. Just ignore it and watch the people who will happily play your tau because there is no riptide in it.

Skriker