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This post may be a little early, as the Space Marine book is not scheduled to be out until Saturday. But, I have heard so many strange background rumors over the last few months, that I thought I would ask for anyone that has received their books early...

So, are the Space Marines going to be the procectors of a xenos species that are the "salvation of Humanity"?

Only thing I've heard of so far is that there's a bit about how Vulkan continued to lead the Salamanders for some considerable time after the Heresy.
...not massively helpful, I know, but it's something.

I want an explanation for being battle bros with the Tau.

That is helpful. For me, Captain Fluff Bunny, the background is why I play 40K. I will be getting the new codex soon, but I know that others have received theirs already. I was just curious what has changed.

At a Games Day, a young fan asked the GW staff why Tau and Space Marines were battle brothers, and he received a massive reaction of support from the other fans. The GW staff replied, "Well, there are examples in the background where they have worked together." I don't know of many...

And, it seems that I am not the only one that doesn't like this background element. I was just wondering if it is in the new book.

They worked together in the Fire Warrior novel. Right down to squadding with each other (something only Battle Brothers allies can do)

I don't know of any other cases, although I vaguely can recall there was at least one other case on some... random planet. I could be wrong.

It still is ridiculous, but I guess it's the only explanation because allies of convenience (which would otherwise make more sense) doesn't allow squadding with each other.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I want an explanation for being battle bros with the Tau.

No you don't! in fact... don't even ask for that!

Why?

becuase they'll actually give you one. They'll think up some compeltely backwards reason why they could sorta-maybe-kinda work together and BAM! then you've justified the whole blasted Allies list and all its madness!

I can tell you why...and it has NOTHING to do with the background. It is all about marketing.

I assume we'll get to read about how the other Legions wanted to be Ultramarines even back during the Heresy. Horus started it because he wanted to be Guilliman and killing the Emperor was just a step on the way.

As for the Battle Brothers it's not just about being best buddies, it's also having forces that actually fit together. Marines and Tau both use mobile tactics and have flexible command systems. And both are inclined to see it as a matter of honor to keep their word, at least in public. If they happen on a common enemy they can work together really well since both have disciplined soldiers that follow orders instead of suspiciously eying the guys to the left.

In the novels I've read they tend to ally up in the face of a mutual threat much quicker than other races. I'd not call them battle brothers...But closer than any other alien race, with Eldar a quick 2nd.

 CaptainLoken wrote:
I can tell you why...and it has NOTHING to do with the background. It is all about marketing.

Nothing to do with the background as you know.

The fluff changes every edition to better support GW's money craving. You either have to move with the times (i.e, accept that Dark Eldar and Eldar are Battle Brothers, Tau/Space Marines work together etc.) or languish in a mind set that GW most likely won't return to until it's milked its current incarnation dry.

Iranna.

For me it makes sense thanks to one word - trust. It's easy for the Marines to be able to trust the Tau not to turn on them after a successful alliance - something they don't have with the Eldar and sometimes even other factions of the Imperium (First Armageddon War, anyone?). In return, the Tau are... well... entirely too trusting in the Marines to do the same. *BUT* as it happens on those occasions we know of where Marines and Tau have allied, that's how it's happened because the Marines in question have been on the more honourable side.

I daresay if the Tau ever allied with Black Templars, Iron Hands or Knights of Blood the results would be very different...

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I want an explanation for being battle bros with the Tau.

This is a "be careful what you wish for" type of scenario. Especially with Ward at the helm.

 Iranna wrote:

 CaptainLoken wrote:
I can tell you why...and it has NOTHING to do with the background. It is all about marketing.

Nothing to do with the background as you know.

The fluff changes every edition to better support GW's money craving. You either have to move with the times (i.e, accept that Dark Eldar and Eldar are Battle Brothers, Tau/Space Marines work together etc.) or languish in a mind set that GW most likely won't return to until it's milked its current incarnation dry.

Iranna.

Eldar / dark eldar beign battle brothers does make sence. The value of an eldar life is infinatly more than a life of another species regardless or path the eldar is on.

Then again, tau being allies with marines isnnot as ridiculous as say, the blood angel/Necron pair up in the blood angel codex.

SkavenLord wrote:
Then again, tau being allies with marines isnnot as ridiculous as say, the blood angel/Necron pair up in the blood angel codex.

The Necrons are cold and calculating, and are willing to ally with anyone to save their own precious lives (they are limited, with no new Necrons coming in), and Blood Angels are desperate for allies in that situation. Why not? What do the Blood Angels have against Necrons? There are even examples of Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines allying against the Tyranids somewhere (though I forget where). A ridiculous alliance, but it happened in fluff.

Good point. Sorry about that. But if space marine and chaos space marine can work together against Tyranids, wouldn't it be possible for space marine and tau to do the same?

SkavenLord wrote:
Then again, tau being allies with marines isnnot as ridiculous as say, the blood angel/Necron pair up in the blood angel codex.

The Necrons are cold and calculating, and are willing to ally with anyone to save their own precious lives (they are limited, with no new Necrons coming in), and Blood Angels are desperate for allies in that situation. Why not? What do the Blood Angels have against Necrons? There are even examples of Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines allying against the Tyranids somewhere (though I forget where). A ridiculous alliance, but it happened in fluff.

Good point. Sorry about that. But if space marine and chaos space marine can work together against Tyranids, wouldn't it be possible for space marine and tau to do the same?

Definitely, and probably with more success than the Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. If you just think it through, there are a number of reasons races will ally with eachother, even outside of the allies matrix. And especially within the allies matrix. For example: The Tau and Space Marine armies compliment eachother. The Tau provide light, long-ranged firepower with quick-moving jumpsuits, whereas the Space Marines grant heavy, well-armed infantry, though designed for short-ranged firefights, and a lot of heavy armour and flier support, which the Tau lack. The Tau also lack infantry that can hold their own in combat, which the Space Marines give. They cover up for each-others weaknesses, and I'm sure commanders on both sides would see this, so why wouldn't they ally against a greater threat?

It should also bear noting that, unlike every other Xeno species out there, the Tau don't automatically exterminate the human populations of Imperial Worlds, nor do they prey on them for slaves, victims, or other Nasty Uses.

As far as Xenos go, the Tau are amongst the most-reasonable that a Space Marine is likely to come into contact with.

I'd like to know if there are any changes to the Chapter structure such as more detail about it.
The codex is somewhat out of my budget at the moment or I'd have picked one up this morning.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I want an explanation for being battle bros with the Tau.

To sell more models, sadly.

 Harriticus wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I want an explanation for being battle bros with the Tau.

This is a "be careful what you wish for" type of scenario. Especially with Ward at the helm.

Cruddace wrote the new codex. As to the original question, no, there is no answer to that. Indeed, there are multiple mentions of Space Marines beating down Tau forces.



As for some other questions I saw:

*I didn't see anything about protecting a xenos culture

*No real change to chapter structure.

*No major fluff changes, the most amusing thing I saw was that they included the battles from other codices that the Space Marines lost, but a few years later there's mention of a rampage of revenge from the losing Chapter (or another one). For example: Calgar gets revenge on the Swarmlord on Ichar IV, The Fire Lords descend on Bellicas (where ithe Necrons destroyed the Emperor's Sword's chapter in their codex) and wipe out the Necron presence there, etc.

There's quite a bit of older fluff that got mixed in, and some chapters I hadn't seen mentioned in a while get name dropped (Rainbow Warriors actually get mentioned). Each of the original legions has a few successor chapters listed along with some fluff on them (examples include Mentors, Genesis Chapter, Brazen Claws). I didn't see the Blood Ravens listed at all (in case anybody was wondering). Salamanders are still specifically mentioned as having no known successors, but they also mention that there are some chapters which are suspected (including the Black Dragons).

As an aside, the allies matrix for those factions that can't be allied with is called "Come the Apocalypse", and it's been disclaimed by GW that statement is meant to be literal (IE, in Apocalypse games, you're allowed to ally ANYONE with anyone. ...how anyone could communicate with Tyrannids to ally in the first place is beyond me, although the narrative section of apocalypse did say that IG super heavies could be explained as gene stealer infested.).

In the case of the Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine "alliance", it really was an apocalypse as the tyrannids threatened to devour all of them and the entire planet they were on. Although I'm not sure they allied so much as simply called off fighting each other.

There's also the little line stating that not only do Black Templars use astropaths and navigators(which was always just an assumption in older material) but they actively venerate soul-bound psykers, such as astropaths, for having been close to the Emperor. Not an unreasonable change.

However, later there is a line stating that the BT actively wish they could recruit psykers to have librarians, but don't because of Nikea. That goes too far for me.

Helbrecht now entered the Sword Brethren after killing a daemon prince with just his combat blade, rather than killing a vampire.

nobody wrote:
I didn't see the Blood Ravens listed at all (in case anybody was wondering).

Interestingly enough, they ARE mentioned a couple of times, but only briefly. They're first listed as being of unknown founding, and that goes into a bit of detail about how they've lost all records of their origin, then a little later it's hinted at that the Inquisition has records and is keeping them schtum (which lends SOME credence to the "loyalist Thousand Sons successor" theory).
One of them also shows up in the colour section.

Quite a few of the lesser-known successor Chapters are also fleshed out a bit more, but there's really too many of those to go into detail here.

Interestingly on Salamanders section of the miniature gallery, there is a picture of a Salamander librarian without a helmet. He is only Salamander model without a helmet, and his skin is African black as opposed to jet black. If this is a fluff retcon to get rid of that silly jet black skin, I for one welcome it.

 Crimson wrote:
Interestingly on Salamanders section of the miniature gallery, there is a picture of a Salamander librarian without a helmet. He is only Salamander model without a helmet, and his skin is African black as opposed to jet black. If this is a fluff retcon to get rid of that silly jet black skin, I for one welcome it.

Salamanders were never meant to be negro africans.
They had black skin and red eyes because those are the colours of lava.
Otherwise they are based on various aspects of ancient Greek and Roman myth.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Compare Salamanders to Raven Guard who have albino white skin.

cadbren wrote:

Salamanders were never meant to be negro africans.
They had black skin and red eyes because those are the colours of lava.
Otherwise they are based on various aspects of ancient Greek and Roman myth.

Except jet black skin is 4th or 5th edition thing. They weren't like that before.

I like to think that Salamanders have "normal" (read: IRL) black skin tones, and that the literal blackened skin with burning red eyes are an exaggerated myth spread to hype up their image for the average Imperial citizen/enemies of Mankind.

 Crimson wrote:

cadbren wrote:

Salamanders were never meant to be negro africans.
They had black skin and red eyes because those are the colours of lava.
Otherwise they are based on various aspects of ancient Greek and Roman myth.

Except jet black skin is 4th or 5th edition thing. They weren't like that before.

Allegedly it was what Rick Priestly had originally intended but it was never actually published. IIRC there was a bare-headed Salamander mini in the Space Marine Paint Set booklet who could have been charcoal-black, but it was kinda too dark to tell (and you couldn't see his eyes) and of course the cover of the box/booklet had a Caucasian Salamander (with Padawan hair)